Summer Transfer Misery 2017/18

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01-06-2017, 01:57 PM
Niall_Quinn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Bale will probably end up at United if he leaves Madrid.

We don't dine at the top table in the transfer market, never did when we had CL football and certainly won't now we're in the EL.

Forget about a marquee name this summer. The best signing we can make is Alexis.

Sorry, but the transfer window is the only period we have to engage in illusion and delusion, so don't spoil that for me. When the season starts the illusions will be shattered quickly enough. But for now, we're signing Bale and Mbappe. Okay?
01-06-2017, 02:02 PM
Marc Overmars

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Sorry, but the transfer window is the only period we have to engage in illusion and delusion, so don't spoil that for me. When the season starts the illusions will be shattered quickly enough. But for now, we're signing Bale and Mbappe. Okay?

The club is so far removed from how an ordinary top club operates, it's not even worth dreaming.
01-06-2017, 02:03 PM
Özim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letters

Of course you have to have been at a club for a long time to set this kind of record. No-one is going to win the trophy every year. But that doesn't mean that being a long time manager guarantees you that sort of record.
George Ramsey was at Villa 42 years and won it 6 times, Wenger has beaten that in 20.
Zim is basically saying that it's not an impressive record because Wenger has been around for ages so of course he's won it a lot. Doesn't really follow.

I said it's not much of a surprise he's won it the most seeing as he's been at this club for 20+ years and very few managers before him have even come close, what's more the competition is no longer a top tier competition and so has become somewhat easier to win since 2005 or so.
01-06-2017, 02:05 PM
Özim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

It follows. There is a guy on that list that won it 5 times in 8 years. That's really impressive. Wenger's record is nice for the history books but I'm not going to go overboard with the praise because the competition is not what it was.

Spot on, as for those saying he's always valued the competition, that's not really true, he's played weakened teams a number of times in favour of other competitions, I'm not saying he doesn't like to win it but simply that it's low priority, he would certainly pick top 4 over it which says everything.
01-06-2017, 02:09 PM
Özim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niall Quinn

You talk about Wenger as if he has difficulties eating with utensils so yes, it is a surprise. Many other Managers have had as many opportunities throughout the history of the competition.

There have been countless managers and still are that have had all those opportunities managing in England. They may not have been at one club as long, but they have had the chances.

You think he is shit, I think he is toast but the complete bollocks you spew makes this place look like a board of mongs.

And anyway, to move those goalposts back to where you shifted them from, I find it incredible that someone is as big of a Mong as you for suggesting that the man who stands alone as the most successful manager in the history of the 145 year competition has devalued it.

Oh dear, we resort to insults again, it's ironic you call me a mong to be honest.

I've made my point but you're clearly too blinkered to take any notice due to your vendetta against me, so I'll leave it there.
01-06-2017, 02:09 PM
Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I mean more significant than it really is in terms of his overall record. His FA Cup record is, of course, unmatched. In terms of the FA Cup alone, Wenger is at the top of the list. But in terms of his overall record as a supposedly top manager, his FA Cup record can't mask the fact he's yet to win a single European title. Can you be considered a top tier manager without winning a European trophy? I doubt it.

At the start of this season just gone, particularly following on from a failure to compete with even Leicester City, had you asked fans if an FA Cup win this season would be considered enough, even if we didn't challenge for the title, even if we didn't challenge for the CL, the answer would be no I think.

Well here we are at the end of the season. No challenge for a title, humiliation in the CL, we don't even have CL next season. But we have the FA Cup and Wenger has broken the record for number of wins - in fact even the emphasis there is all wrong. The emphasis should be on Arsenal's record 13 wins, not Wenger's 7. leaving that aside, listening to some fans now claiming we've had a successful season based on the back of this cup win, well that's a joke. Listening to them going on about FA Cup records and Wenger's personal achievements, it's a joke. Listening to them lay in to anyone who suggests this has, in fact, been a whopping failure of a season is a joke. Because it has been a failure. We didn't move to the Emirates to win FA Cups and fans shouldn't be expected to pay the highest ticket prices in the world for a day out at Wembley. Hull and Wigan fans can get that a hell of a lot cheaper.

So yes, Wenger's record in the FA Cup is the best. No arguments about that from me. But in context, trying to bloat it up to something more significant than it is is simply another way for Wengerites to cling on to some sort of justification for the devotion in the face of an obviously declining club and a manager incapable of turning that around.

:gp:
01-06-2017, 02:13 PM
Özim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I mean more significant than it really is in terms of his overall record. His FA Cup record is, of course, unmatched. In terms of the FA Cup alone, Wenger is at the top of the list. But in terms of his overall record as a supposedly top manager, his FA Cup record can't mask the fact he's yet to win a single European title. Can you be considered a top tier manager without winning a European trophy? I doubt it.

At the start of this season just gone, particularly following on from a failure to compete with even Leicester City, had you asked fans if an FA Cup win this season would be considered enough, even if we didn't challenge for the title, even if we didn't challenge for the CL, the answer would be no I think.

Well here we are at the end of the season. No challenge for a title, humiliation in the CL, we don't even have CL next season. But we have the FA Cup and Wenger has broken the record for number of wins - in fact even the emphasis there is all wrong. The emphasis should be on Arsenal's record 13 wins, not Wenger's 7. leaving that aside, listening to some fans now claiming we've had a successful season based on the back of this cup win, well that's a joke. Listening to them going on about FA Cup records and Wenger's personal achievements, it's a joke. Listening to them lay in to anyone who suggests this has, in fact, been a whopping failure of a season is a joke. Because it has been a failure. We didn't move to the Emirates to win FA Cups and fans shouldn't be expected to pay the highest ticket prices in the world for a day out at Wembley. Hull and Wigan fans can get that a hell of a lot cheaper.

So yes, Wenger's record in the FA Cup is the best. No arguments about that from me. But in context, trying to bloat it up to something more significant than it is is simply another way for Wengerites to cling on to some sort of justification for the devotion in the face of an obviously declining club and a manager incapable of turning that around.

Great post. nothing more to add.
01-06-2017, 02:17 PM
Letters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Özim

I said it's not much of a surprise he's won it the most seeing as he's been at this club for 20+ years and very few managers before him have even come close, what's more the competition is no longer a top tier competition and so has become somewhat easier to win since 2005 or so.

Well, he's not even in the top 30 when it comes to longevity at one club and as Gary pointed out there are a lot of managers who have been around much longer but at different clubs.
And the person whose record he beat took over 40 years to get to 6.
And given how incompetent you think him to be, I'm surprised you're not surprised at his achievement. And is it easier to win? Surely the league cup is even easier as that has a significantly lower prestige and he's never won that.
The mental contortions you go through to avoid giving Wenger credit for anything really are ridiculous Zim.
01-06-2017, 02:19 PM
Niall_Quinn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

The club is so far removed from how an ordinary top club operates, it's not even worth dreaming.

Can't hear you. La, la, la, Wenger in. It's ON!
01-06-2017, 02:24 PM
Özim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letters

Well, he's not even in the top 30 when it comes to longevity at one club and as Gary pointed out there are a lot of managers who have been around much longer but at different clubs.
And the person whose record he beat took over 40 years to get to 6.
And given how incompetent you think him to be, I'm surprised you're not surprised at his achievement. And is it easier to win? Surely the league cup is even easier as that has a significantly lower prestige and he's never won that.
The mental contortions you go through to avoid giving Wenger credit for anything really are ridiculous Zim.

That might be true, but in modern day football the cup isn't as prestigious and therefore big clubs no longer take it as seriously and consequently it's easier to win, 3 of his wins have come in this period incidentally and as pointed out before two were against Hull and Villa, two mid to bottom of the table sides, the one this season was a better achievement in many ways. As for being at one club, it's an advantage, when yo move clubs you have to rebuild, make your own team and in that time rarely do you win, the fact he's had 20+ years here means he's not really had to do any of that.

He's won it the most, no doubt that well done to him, I'm happy for him, but it doesn't change much for me and doesn't gloss over the failure he is.

Yes no doubt the league cup is lower prestige, again that's an even lower priority.

It's no secret I don't think he's that good a manager end of and the FA Cup doesn't really change that, how many European trophies does he have, how many league titles in the last 13 years, the FA cup isn't the marker for a good manager, Portsmouth and Wigan won it in recent times and look where they are now?

I'm not going to cream myself over a few wins in a cup that's now seen a 2nd tier in modern football like some of you, nice to win the cup and all that but would happily give that up for a competitve team in the league and CL.

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