Arsenal vs Crystal Palace 23.04.2025 - KO 20:00 GMT

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IBK

Late to this, but I have 4 reasons why finishing second is important.

1. We have been 'nailed on' in second place for a while - in a season where the traditional challengers have been pretty shocking. To lose this position having been well clear of the rest would represent a capitulation. This is never a good look or feel, whatever the surrounding circumstances.

2. A team with aspirations to win the league should treat every game as important and look to win it. The league was won a few weeks ago. This doesn't mean that we should not fight to secure the best finish possible - ie 2nd.

3. Similarly, a team with our aspirations wants to be able to compete on all fronts. Falling off an established position in the league because we are in the final stages of the CL indicates an inability to do this - which is counter to this objective.

4. Like I said in the post you were responding to, our team at its best is all about focus and control. This is not something that we should be looking to switch on and off, it should be a constant. Winning games; keeping leads; doing what is needed to get over the line is a habit. Failing to do so dents confidence and security. Our 'line' since 6 weeks ago has been second.

I've said that I don't think the Palace game will set the pattern for tomorrow night and next week. But we need (1) to address the drawing habit that has done for our title challenge this season, and (2) show that we have the resolve not to allow our leage position to fall away at the death.

---

I can see most of those arguments, I just don't think any of them are as important as you and some others are making out.
Number 3 in particular - context is important here. We mathematically aren't in the title race now but in practice haven't been in one for a couple of months now. A bit of pragmatic prioritisation of games is understandable. Multiple examples have been provided from past seasons when we did that and ended up with the trophy.
I'll be a bit annoyed if we don't finish 2nd, but it hasn't been a 2 horse race this year, in reality there hasn't been a race.
Finish 4th and win the CL or finish 2nd and don't? It's a no brainer.
Gut feeling is we won't win the CL, in that context slipping from 2nd would be even more disappointing, but for me it wouldn't add that much to the disappointment of this complete shitshow of a season anyway. Only the CL can rescue it now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

I can see most of those arguments, I just don't think any of them are as important as you and some others are making out.
Number 3 in particular - context is important here. We mathematically aren't in the title race now but in practice haven't been in one for a couple of months now. A bit of pragmatic prioritisation of games is understandable. Multiple examples have been provided from past seasons when we did that and ended up with the trophy.
I'll be a bit annoyed if we don't finish 2nd, but it hasn't been a 2 horse race this year, in reality there hasn't been a race.
Finish 4th and win the CL or finish 2nd and don't? It's a no brainer.
Gut feeling is we won't win the CL, in that context slipping from 2nd would be even more disappointing, but for me it wouldn't add that much to the disappointment of this complete shitshow of a season anyway. Only the CL can rescue it now.

---

Fair enough. FWIW even I don't see holding on to 2nd as the be all and end all, but as Arteta has exemplified, marginal gains are important, as are good and bad habits. As is winning mentality. The latter dictates that even if we have failed to win the league, we should be aiming to finish as high as possible.

I'm not so sure that the Palace performance was as much a 'pragmatic prioritisation of games' as much as a lack of focus on that one. You can say with justification that players are human, and psychologically the PSG tie was foremost in their minds. However Palace did not appear distracted by their own, sooner, semi, and I do not doubt that Arteta was unhappy with his team's apparent distraction/lack of focus.

Your no brainer point is valid - noone will care about dropping from 2nd if we win the CL, but like you, my heart says we won't. And this exemplifies my overlying point, really. One reason I have doubts about our ability to win the CL is that under Arteta we have failed (with the one FA Cup exception) to get over the line to win trophies, and often turned in disappointing performances when it really counts - at the sharp end. It's the 'fookin' estandards' isnt it, and dropping off 2nd place at the death doesn't really match Arteta's criteria.

It's like an athlete in the 100m final. You wouldn't expect the runner in second place to ease off just because (s)he is beaten to first. You would expect them to fight for silver, and take that into the next race. Small margins maybe but not without importance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IBK

Mac - my comments were not intended as a criticism of Arsenal's EPL season so much as a response to Letters about why I think retaining second place is important.

We have endured bad luck with injuries and decisions this season, but the simple fact is that even now we are 5 points clear in second, so I do not think these factors are relevant to my comments about retaining what we have - particularly as we are in a better place now with player fitness than we were at the end of January - when we were also 5 points clear.

There is no reason why we cannot secure 2nd place, and I don't think my comments re aspirations are misplaced. I dispute that a team like Arsenal should not aspire to compete on all fronts.

And I don't agree with your comments re confidence and momentum. The point about our CL performances is something of a red herring. It's a cup comp in which we have done well for sure, but I don't want to see a team that can only reach levels in 'big games', nor one that picks and chooses when to turn it on. Our season, and league title challenge has been blighted by too many draws, and too many points dropped from winning positions. Our progress in the CL does not change this. It is beyond doubt that winning is a habit, and confidence is drawn from knowing you can see games out, and pick up maximum points regularly. We all lamented our previous seasons when we dropped off from February. 2022/3 and 2023/4 saw us improve this bad habit. We all want to push on in the league from this season. Failing to secure a second place that we have retained for most of this season despite things going against us is not a great starting point.

---

There's every reason why we might not secure it, namely a thin squad, some not fully fit, and the nwed to prioritise a competition of huge prestige which we've never won before, a lot of people on here have completely unrealistic expectations given the season we've had

The reason i think second could slip is we have some very difficult games v Liverpool and Newcastle who have nothing else to play for.

Especially v Newcastle I'd want some key players left out of that, given how they get away with gratuitous violence on the pitch on a weekly basis

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IBK

Late to this, but I have 4 reasons why finishing second is important.

1. We have been 'nailed on' in second place for a while - in a season where the traditional challengers have been pretty shocking. To lose this position having been well clear of the rest would represent a capitulation. This is never a good look or feel, whatever the surrounding circumstances.

2. A team with aspirations to win the league should treat every game as important and look to win it. The league was won a few weeks ago. This doesn't mean that we should not fight to secure the best finish possible - ie 2nd.

3. Similarly, a team with our aspirations wants to be able to compete on all fronts. Falling off an established position in the league because we are in the final stages of the CL indicates an inability to do this - which is counter to this objective.

4. Like I said in the post you were responding to, our team at its best is all about focus and control. This is not something that we should be looking to switch on and off, it should be a constant. Winning games; keeping leads; doing what is needed to get over the line is a habit. Failing to do so dents confidence and security. Our 'line' since 6 weeks ago has been second.

I've said that I don't think the Palace game will set the pattern for tomorrow night and next week. But we need (1) to address the drawing habit that has done for our title challenge this season, and (2) show that we have the resolve not to allow our leage position to fall away at the death.

---

:gp: excellent.