He's a young, trophy laden, ambitious manager. His work at Sevilla was fantastic. He plays football the right way and his teams play good football technically.
If the option was Arteta or Emery then there really was no option.
Ivan :bow:
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He's a young, trophy laden, ambitious manager. His work at Sevilla was fantastic. He plays football the right way and his teams play good football technically.
If the option was Arteta or Emery then there really was no option.
Ivan :bow:
Now that's a great post. Novice or experience with success. Its a no brainer. Arteta is like jumping out of a plane with a parachute that everyone else has passed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cripps
I get where you're coming from and I agree that Emery's not a particularly exciting appointment. But that type of manager might be the best of what's available to us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Splinter
We're not exactly in the best position to attract the best of the best. Our squad is awful, we're not in the CL and we only have £50m to spend in the summer (allegedly). Is it any wonder why managers of the calibre of Allegri don't give us a second look?
On the other hand we could take a risk on a complete unknown like Arteta and hope for the best. It might be more exciting at first because we can delude ourselves into thinking that he'll be some kind of genius who'll lead us back to glory. In reality it's not likely that he'll miraculously be one of the top 5% of managers in his first ever job. He's much more likely to be one of the rest, or worse a Gary Neville who'll sink us down to new depths.
Do you want a punch :angry:Quote:
Originally Posted by GP
AFTV claiming Arteta didn't want to go with new system at Arsenal and wanted more say than was being offered. Ballsy move that didn't work out for him, although he has teh gypos to fall back on of course. So I guess Emery has accepted the new system and, for me, that's a good thing. No more emperors.
You're too young...Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I actually am, but I made that exact joke about a week ago... <_<Quote:
Originally Posted by Dial Square Old Boy
The Europa League wins caught my attention but when I looked at Sevilla's performance in La Liga it was a concern. In his last season for Sevilla they didn't win a single away match.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Splinter
He hasn't got a great CL record, performs poorly against the bigger clubs and if you check his head to head stats vs mangers like Pep, Mourinho, Simeone, Enrique... etc, it's not pretty. In fact, he couldn't even beat Wenger.
Hopefully he has another gear in him if this is confirmed. If fans look a little closer at his record, they may have the same reservations.
You can dissect anything to put whatever spin on it.
Fact is we've just hired a serial winner. One that plays exciting, attacking football. Let's get behind this appointment.
Not winning a single away game all season is spin? Never making it past the last 16 of the CL or going out in the group stage is spin?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cripps
I think he's a stable appointment and may get us back in the CL and some cup victories but I'm not sure if he has the potential to topple Pep, Klopp, Pott and Mourinho. Go on Tranafermarket.com and check out his head to head stats. Hopefully, he is young enough to learn and adapt.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/unai...r/trainer/5075
For the lazy fuckers out there. Unai's head to head stats.
Let’s face it, there was never going to be an appointment that was universally welcomed. Some people didn’t even want Allegri believe it or not. Everyone has their own preference as to what path we should have gone down but there is no sure-fire solution. We’re not going suddenly become world beaters next year, it’s going to take time and there will be plenty of set backs along the way regardless of who got the job.
We’ve got ourselves a good coach, he’s worthy enough to have a go. Time will tell just how good (or bad) Emery proves to be but let’s not revert to type and make it unnecessarily difficult for him and the team.
That is a concern...I can't lie.
It went tits up for Klopp in his final season as well. Sometimes a manager exhausts a club. At least Emery won the Europa despite it going tits up. Fact is he's a serial winner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power n Glory
Look at the head to head stats. I think this guy is still a work in progress. Still young enough to learn but he's not up there with the elites just yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cripps
I posted earlier that I thought he was solid when first hearing the news. It's only after seeing a few more fans Tweet about him and doing my own digging that I had some concerns. I've lowered my expectations. He definitely has something there and is young enough to get to the top but he's not there at the moment. Full support either way if this our guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
He is still a work in progress. He's only 46.
And he's won the treble and European trophy 3 times despite being in progress.
I'll take that.
Makes me laugh, this nobody should have just accepted what he got, it's his first job, he should think himself lucky he was ever considered. He has a year or too under Guardiola (Mr Chequebook) and suddenly thinks he's gods gift to football :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Average player for us with absolutely no leadership qualities, this off the field leader thing was nonsense, whilst he was captain we never saw his influence and we were as bad as we ever were, so glad we didn't take him on (and we may have seen the same type of football as Guardiola which would have been awful).
He hasn't won the Treble. Stop it. If we're calling it that, you can put Brendan Rodgers down as a Treble winner too. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cripps
Let me see Sevilla never finished in the top 4 with him. Lost the title to Monaco last year. For all the tactical genius crap, somehow blew a 4-1 lead to Barca last year. His team got embarrassed by a pretty average Madrid team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Couldn't deal with Neymar, and essentially let him do what ever he wanted too on the pitch. And can't speak English.
Yeah, great hire.
To be fair no PSG coach is going to be able to deal with Neymar. He’s bigger than the club and nothing more than a symbol of their wealth. If there’s an opportunity to go back to Spain he will be gone.
Emery’s CL defeats were poor but the CL is of no relevance to us at the moment.
This guy turned Nzonzi into something decent so I'm hoping he can coach our players properly.
You don't win the Europa League three times on the trot and not have something about you.
He deserves a chance so all this whinging should be put aside until he is given at least a season or two.
Has Brendan Rodgers won the Europa 3 times?Quote:
Originally Posted by Power n Glory
He got corrupted out of the CL last season by the most blatant cheating I've ever seen :lol: that game was always going to be overturned before a ball was even kicked :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by hobson's choice
As for this year they lost to what will probably be the eventual winners.
And for the English, neither could Conte.
:console:
No, but has Emery won the 'tREBLE' three seasons in a row, like Brendan Rodgers! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cripps
I'm not putting too much weight in the trophies at PSG. Laurent Blanc won the 'tREBLE' twice in a row with PSG. That team is too dominant in Ligue 1 and I respect PSG's last season a lot less because they had to pull a Bayern to win the league back from Monaco. I've held the same criticism of Pep at Bayern.
The stuff I think adds weight to this appointment besides the trophies is what I've heard about his attention to details and analysis. That's impressive stuff. But there is more.
More positives.... Emery has worked with some really good players, helped develop them and they moved on to playing for bigger clubs. Juan Mata (Valencia), David Silva (Valencia), David Villa (Valencia), Jordi Alba (Valencia) Raul Albiol (Valencia) Roberto Soldado (Valencia), Ivan Rakitic (Sevilla), Carlos Bacca (Sevilla), Jesus Navas (Sevilla), Negredo (Sevilla).
That Villa, Mata and Silva combo at Valencia was impressive.
We're going to have EKB and 'Emery out' factions before we've kicked a ball. If he comes, and it hasn't been confirmed yet, let's just get behind him. Nobody even knew who Wenger was but that turned out all right for a while. There would always be good reasons to appoint or not appoint many managers. We may have gone for a 'middle of the road' option in terms of experience, but let's just give him a chance!
Tbf a lot of those stats must be skewed because he was managing Sevilla. Course he's not going to have a good record against people managing Barca, Real and Atletico.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power n Glory
Not winning an away match for a whole season IS very worrying though. Especially after our horrible away record last season...
Yes, that's true. He's managed Valencia and Sevilla. But it would be even more impressive if he could have outfox the bigger teams and managers. What's truly impressive about Simeone and Klopp is that they've always managed smaller teams but their records against the giants is pretty impressive. Klopp has put the hurting on Pep and Jose a number of times. Dormund vs Bayern, Madrid, City, Chelsea....Also, Simeone doesn't manage a giant team. Atletico were in the same class as Valencia and Sevilla but Simeone transformed them into a powerhouse team despite the lack of resources and having key players poached each season. No shame in Emery's record and not everyone can do what Klopp and Simeone have done but I would say those two are a step above him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin
Well, at least Emery has the one important victory over Klopp! He may be able to flourish at Arsenal. PSG was toxic. With the right environment, he could do well. As said in a previous post, I'm impressed with some of the players he worked with at Valencia. He's part of the reason why I say there are talented teams in La Liga but it's held back by the lopsided financing.
He wasn't the right coach for PSG and their climate. It's clear from everything I've read he was way too detailed and meticulous for those pretentious, egotistical PSG players. Neymar didn't warm to his video analysis and pre-match prep because it was deemed long and detailed :doh: imagine that, poor little Neymar actually having to listen to instructions and being told what to do :rolleyes:
Whereas at Arsenal it's completely different. After years of laissez-faire Wenger we need a meticulous manager to come in and dissect every aspect.
Sometimes profiles just don't match and I think Emery is more suited to an underdog type club like Sevilla, Arsenal, Valencia etc i.e. a club with restricted resources that has plenty to prove where his work can really take effect, instead of the PSG's and Real Madrid's of the world with a dressing room full of uncooperative, pampered prima donnas.
I agree with that, I think we’re a very suitable project for a manager who’s strength lies in meticulous planning. Time will tell how effective Emery will be but I certainly don’t place too much weight on his stint at PSG. They’re a vanity project for the owners, everyone there is expendable and generally world class players don’t require a great deal of coaching either. It’s more man management that makes them tick.
Yeah, I think there's a lot of truth to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cripps
Whilst an impressive track record is always a nice-to-have, I'm not sure it's always the most important factor when making these appointments? Sometimes you've got to try and see past that and really focus on the skills and ideas that they'll add when working out who is the best fit our specific role / project. I see a lot of stuff about comparing similar levels (based on whether clubs are in the EL or CL places, or serious title contenders), but the truth is no two clubs (and their brief for managers / coaches) are the same - just look at the vast differences in styles between the top 6 in the EPL! Same 'level' but wildly different philosophies and methods.
You see it with players all the time - guys like Henry and Bergkamp were just kind of getting by in Italy, but it wasn't until they came to Arsenal that they really found their perfect 'fit'. Sometimes it's the culture and footballing philosophy that's the problem, sometimes it's the very specific role they're being asked to perform, when their skill set might be better suited to something else? Again, Henry was playing on the wing for Juventus, but we immediately made him CF and he never looked back. Petit went from LB to CM, Ralphy from RW to RB, Kolo from CM to CB, van Persie from LW to CF, Cazorla and Arteta from AM to DLP, etc, etc.
What if the same is just as true for managers / first team coaches? With a club like PSG, where some players are basically undroppable, and they're buying in expensive, finished articles who need no coaching, then oddly enough their ideal manager is probably someone like Wenger - a manager who never rotates his team, and spends all his time telling his players that they're great, and shielding them from criticism (Neymar would probably love him). Whereas someone like Emery, who is more about details and challenging players to improve, even if it means hard work and taking them out of their comfort zone, might be welcomed at Arsenal with open arms (I know a lot of Gooners will scoff at that, thinking that the current Arsenal squad is literally Comfort made manifest, but I think think the truth is that a lot of our players simply look lost, and have been crying out for clear direction for a long time now)? At any rate, it clearly wasn't a good fit for PSG's room full of super-egos.
I guess you just have to hope that the club have done their homework properly, and that the talk of the directors being blown away by the depth and detail of Emery's presentation are accurate. If that particular story is true then it's encouraging, because you don't just put together a presentation like that overnight - it's something he will have been thinking about and preparing for a while, meaning that he will have been aware of our interest for a while, and that this appointment isn't just a panicky, last-minute 180.
To be honest, which manager who has won the CL would have come to Arsenal out of the current batch? I think they're already in posts. Sometimes you have to appoint lower than you would like and hope that it comes good.
He's got to be a better appointment then Rogers would have been and he was top of the list for a while.
Apparently Emery prepares the videos himself. He spends up to 12 hours editing and preparing videos for a 1 hour team meeting :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
And I trust Ivan + SAS with this appointment. They have been pretty robust and ruthless in what they've done so far. I've been impressed with the way they have made backroom changes, let players go etc. We finally seem to have a bit of competence making decisions at the club.
ISAS :bow:
I think we're increasingly going the to see the top clubs hiring coaches based on ideas, innovation, energy and 'fit' rather than experience and reputation. They may be in the minority at the moment, but the success of guys like Nagelsmann and Tedesco won't have gone unnoticed by boards throughout Europe - neither had so much as a single game of managerial experience before they took on their current roles (I'm not sure they even had professional playing careers either?), and yet they've both rocked out CL finishes in every season that they've bene in charge so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goonermerree
Part of me's actually a little disappointed that we've shied away from Arteta (assuming that's what's happened, and he hasn't simply decided to stay with Pep for another couple of years for his development) - it felt like a very modern, progressive move, and that we were actually getting ahead of the curve for once, but hopefully Emery will be more than happy to fit into the same kind of structure, and still will bring plenty of fresh ideas and energy with him...
Le Grove in tears :lol:
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cripps
Would you have preferred Arteta?Quote:
Originally Posted by hobson's choice
I kind of think the backroom changes are the most important part of all this: the permanent / long-term hires who will form the backbone of the club's footballing identity going forward, and who will be responsible for things like basic training and tactics, technical competence, physical conditioning and mentality. The way I'm hoping it will work is that each new first team coach will come in and take us top the next level in terms of ideas and innovation - if it works then our permanent coaching team will then absorb these new ideas and add them to our basic coaching standards for the next generation, so our footballing identity is constantly progressing and evolving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cripps
(This is where I thought we might be looking at someone like Buvac - not as the first team coach or even their assistant, but perhaps as a one of the permanent, background hires? A sort of director-level coaching role that sits somewhere alongside Sanllehi and Mislintat in the new structure?)
Hopefully Emery brings his no2. He's a terrier that doesn't stop barking orders. Exactly what we need.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible