Tonight please. The Rookie is back!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
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Tonight please. The Rookie is back!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
What a way to bring up your 1000th post.
Thank you :tiphat:Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
:lol:
:lol:
That’s alright!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
We ‘ate Tottenham and we ‘ate Tottenham…
:cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Back to last night's gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Is anyone else thinking that Saliba and Gabriel are not quite good enough? Saliba looked pretty good in the French League, but the PL is much harder. I would play Kiwior and Holding on Saturday. We must do something to turn this shit show around, and quickly.
Saliba has been struggling for a while but I suppose he’s got some credit in the bank. Same with Gabriel too, they’ve both looked a bit shaky since the restart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
Not sure I’d play Kiwior and Holding though. That sounds like a recipe for disaster. At least one of Saliba and Gabriel need to stay in there.
yeah Holding is now dreadfulQuote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
I would think about bringing in Kiwior though, but instead of maybe Gabriel as I'm not sure he's any better than Saliba and he did actually give away a pel yesterday - but we got away with an offside ruling (VAR :bow:)
Nah.. They were immense in the first 19 games. I am not a fan of swapping CB's without giving them time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
In the cold light of day this morning, two things are clear to me
The first is that Citeh will win the league
The second is that we need to part ways with Arteta in the summer
He's done well to get us a strong team spirit but we have to say he was fortunate to benefit from some of the players we had
Yesterday showed that his flaws will always hold us back from competing with the best
The PL will be tougher next year, we also have the CL
We need someone with top experience to pick up from here
It's what Chelsea in their winning era would have done and we need to do the same to get that kind of success
We need someone who's got no time for Xhaka's idiocy, Zin's flaws and the madness of never using one of the best left backs in the country
So we need to say "thanks Mikel, we'll take it from here"
Fucking hell :haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
This is like the Liverpool fans who want to get rid of Klopp
The sad fact is the reason the premier league is going to get harder, is because City, United and Newcastle will be able to go berserk with spending.
It’s abundantly clear I’m no fan of Arteta, but the one thing that should be clear this season is that teams that have dropped their coach at the first sign of a roadblock don’t exactly profit from doing so
I’m in no position to lecture anyone for over reacting to a result, I spent a week lambasting Arteta after the United game because tactically I felt he tanked the game…yet interestingly whilst he could and should have been more conservative in that game, he was too conservative yesterday…the fact is you don’t always get it right.
We are likely to get our highest points total in almost twenty years, the idea that anyone at Arsenal is even considering dispensing with Arteta is utterly ludicrous. And as much as I don’t like him especially, the fact is there is no one who strikes me as being able to do a better job with the players he has. He has made Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard into top players.
I get it. Drawing after being two nil up is hugely disappointing, but claiming that we missed this glaring opportunity as if somehow there was this plan that would have cemented a definite victory over a team that almost never loses at home is football manager stuff.
Yep. Sack him, he's shit ��Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
As i expected, no-one's really thinking this through
Ofc the team has exceeded expectations, but you don't keep a manager because of what they have done, but what you think they can do in the future and I think he's hit his limit
Chelsea won the CL and then changed managers, ruthless it might be but it got them ongoing success and unless the club develops that mentality we're going to be where Chelsea are now, the moment they softened up they lost the plot
Arteta's flawa are too deep, we will have much more high-level football next season and we need someone who's been there and done it
All of Arteta's flaws were on show yesterday, I thought he'd learnt but he hasn't - the club need to start tapping up top level managers right now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Whichever way you argue it, this doesn’t come across any less a petulant response to yesterday
You’ve had two posts and in neither have you put forward a top, top managerial candidate to replace Arteta
I don’t get why he sticks with Xhaka but so did Wenger and so did Emery.
Xhaka's obviously a teacher's pet who runs around however many traffic cones the boss asks him toQuote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Wenger was on his last legs, Emery and Arteta, both with inferiority complexes, liked his unconditional support whem they went through difficult times
Try comparing it with business, a good company looks to what its doing next and if it needs to bring a new CEO who can lead the company in its next phase, they do
What you need to get your head around is that next season will be much more competitive so we need to have the right person with the right experience to do it
And I'm not feeling angry or emotional at all today, just very resigned to our fate and clear about its causes, all of which lie at Arteta's door
A team can't just be good, it needs to be perfect or it won't succeed, and Xhaka, Zin and Arteta are too imperfect
Strongly disagree. Arteta has his flaws but he is undoubtedly one of the most sought after managers in Europe ATM, and every team bar Citeh and maybe Newcastle wishes they had someone in his mould. You say his flaws will always hold us back. I say that if this season has shown us anything it is that he is learning - and his project is not complete. As others have said, the key question here is who would be available anyway to continue the momentum that Arteta has achieved? If this were a flash in the pan - a la Leicester after 2016 then there would be more merit in what you are saying, but a second place finish this season will speak to something much deeper than that, and the manager deserves to further augment his side and push on - that much is obvious, for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
But his project involves Zinchenko, Xhaka and losing Tierney which is why I don't support it, I don't need to mention anyone else, just point to flaws which Arteta shows no sign of understanding
he only knows one way to set up the team and going forward he's just going to bolt the club more deeply into that model
And let’s be fair we felt that players like that would mean that we would struggle to finish in the top four.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
But as I’ve said, the issue isn’t tactical the reason things will be more difficult is because the ridiculous money four clubs will be spending. There isn’t a robotic super coach that exists that can get past that factor
As for Arteta, he’s no better or worse than Guardiola…who you could very much make the same argument about in terms of tactics preventing him from winning the European cup with City and Bayern
Now could be that, that all changes this season but i wouldn’t be surprised if Bayern knock them out.
Madness to suggest sacking him now. He’s built a team that’s currently delivering our best season in 20 years. All the players attribute their progress to him and it would tear down everything we’ve built if he were to leave.
If we don’t win the league, it will probably be because we couldn’t win at Anfield or the Etihad. These are monumental tasks in any season. We couldn’t have asked for much more right now. We want an A+ but an A- season is still beyond anything we expected.
There’s plenty to improve on but this squad has a high enough ceiling to come again and that’s thanks to Arteta and also Edu who revamped the entire strategy of the club.
We’re finally back in the CL next year too so that’s something to look forward to and will no doubt help us in the transfer market as well.
I know we’re all desperate for the title but stories don’t always have happy endings. Thanks to City and their cheat codes just being an excellent team isn’t enough anymore to win the league.
Sure i get what you're all saying and i know it's a bit crazy to talk about replacing Arteta, but as i said above Abramovich's Chelsea and I'd argue some continental clubs would do it if they thought it necessary so it's not beyond contemplation
It's not based on anger but it's certainly an argumemt based on personal preference, as someone who pays to go to the games it's depressing to think we're stuck with Xhaka and Zin and the no-left-back system for the forseeable future, personally i can't stand it and so purely from a selfish POV, if Arteta won't change it it's always going to annoy me and make me inclined to want to see what somone else could do with that squad (or most of it)
When Tierney goes in the summer - which he surely will - it will be a really depressing moment, especially if he then does really well for someone like Newcastle
I'll say one more time that different managers work with different teams at different points of their evolution
But sure we will of course keep Arteta and all well and good and I'll just have to suck it up :lol:
Ultimately I resigned myself to the fact long, long ago that there will always be players who play for us that I don’t likeQuote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Let’s be fair the main purpose of the full back role seems less defensive and more about supplementing the attack these days.
For me we wouldn’t need an inverted left back if Xhaka had more positional discipline but at the same time, I think it actually works better him going forward, not just because he’s not great defensively but he definitely gives us more options in terms of attacking outlets. As much as I overall prefer someone like Tielemans because I think he’s technically better, I think the way Xhaka lurks deep outside the opponents box means that far more than ever used to be the case we can recycle the ball when it gets clear (Odegaard also very good at this)
I think Arteta is an adaptative manager, he’s also smug and Galaxy brained and stubborn but the anthithesis of this is being a prevaricater who is unsure of himself. Plus Klopp and Guardiola are quite dogmatic in the style they play.
It’s not for me his style, we don’t take anywhere near enough advantage of counter attacking opportunities. It also often feels like we can’t strike quite the right balance between attack and defence. But I still think we are a work in progress
It felt to me years ago that there were obvious candidates to replace Wenger, but there is no one obvious to replace Arteta
The most annoying thing is that Arteta keeps faith with Xhaka and ignores Tierney. We were getting battered for 50 minutes of the game and brings on Tierney on 88 minutes :( what the fuck?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Yeah, he does have his favourites, I think most people admit thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
Like you say, Tierney should have either started or certainly replaced Zin on about 60 mins - it's exactly that kind of thing that's irritating, if we lose fair and square it's one thing, but if it's through our own mistakes it's harder to take
Quite enjoyed reading this ha. Easy not to speak against consensus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Definitely get the sentiment, tbh. The suggestion that Arteta may have peaked is pretty reasonable to me. I'm not sure it clicks like this again for him but he's at least earned the chance to fail, I guess.
His favoritism of certain players is baffling, particularly when it's so blatantly to the detriment of him and the team.
I guess if I had to defend him otd be a long the lines of my similarly staunch defence of players like Saka, in that he's still young and relatively inexperienced. Those subs yesterday absolutely reeked of inexperience and cowardice.
Actually, I see your point is that the ruthlessness we should apply is to not let him use his right to fail.
Pretty much, yes...Quote:
Originally Posted by mandela8
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
This is just too silly.
No, it's just a POV you don't agree with, but as I keep.pointing out (and no-one has dealt with), it's an approach taken by other clubs including Chelsea which netted them a hatful of honoursQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Not that I particularly want us to emulate Chelsea, but it's a valid point to make even if no-one agrees
When Chelsea also pumped in a metric shit-ton of money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
There are many more clubs who have chopped and changed managers without success.
Arteta has absolutely earned the right to try and push us on next season whatever happens for the rest of this season. If he doesn’t and this is the peak then ok, maybe it is time to consider handing over to someone else. But doing so now would be mental.
The money point is fair but ultimately it's not mental, just something you don't agree with
Anyway i succeeded in creating a debate of sorts I suppose, although only Mandela remotely got it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
I got it, i just think you’re wrong
Chelsea’s managerial roulette wheel spin has often a) proved not to work and b) is more of a reflection on how toxic the club is and how it’s impossible for anyone to do a good job there long term
Plus look how much money they spaffed up the wall on hiring Potter (having to buy out the remainder of his contract with Brighton) and even more to sack him…they’ve got for Lampard as a caretaker because it’s the cheapest option because there’s only so many accountancy tricks you can do.
The other reason the suggestion you’ve floated doesn’t work is simply because you don’t even have anyone you could immediately say would do a better job than Arteta. This is not because of how good Arteta is but more a reflection on how in this money drenched era the influence of a coach has become more and more marginal.
Chelsea is a huge outlier. It’s worked for them because they’ve generally always had a very strong squad, not only full of the leagues best talent but also big voices and leaders. Only Mourinho has made a real lasting impact there, everyone else just picks up the baton and runs with it before they’re discarded and forgotten about.
That’s not a route I want to see us go down. Arteta botched the game on Sunday for sure and he’s not flawless by any means, but after years of utter misery where it got to the point where I didn’t even care if we won or lost, I’m grateful that he’s restored my faith in Arsenal. He deserves the time to see this “process” through.
Of course if we revert to type next year then questions can rightly be asked.
All good points,I admit I've no idea what other coaches are out there and yes Arteta overall has improved the team, plus as per somewhere above I don't want us to replicate Chelsea in general but a certain ruthlessness can be useful
I just wish the bit of Arteta that sees only good in people like Xhaka and Zin coild be surgically removed :lol:
All managers have their flaws and their favourites, and opinions will always be subjective. The truth is that our manager isn't perfect, but 73 points after 30 games speaks for itself...no one has done better so far this season. Even if we finish second to a cheating nation state of a team, Arteta will have worked miracles to get us here.
Miracles no, a very good job, yes
The miracle will come if we win from here... :)
Agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Incredible job up until now but the only definitive way to prove himself is to win the title.
Fair enough :good:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Fair enough :good:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76