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That's probably me done then. I can't imagine how I'd be able to stand another three seasons of this shit. The odd Alexis run, the odd Ozil pass, the impetuosity of Iwobi (which Wenger is busy training out of him), what else? I have literally fallen asleep during games this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralpheroo72
Kroenke will urge him to sign early if we make a strong start next season? So all the joy of winning will be sucked away as the consequences unfold. It's like we're cursed for all eternity. It seems like an eternity anyway.
Not sure I buy that story. Firstly, I'm not sure a deadline really applies to Wenger. If he went into November undecided, given how much Kroenke and co back him, they wouldn't pull the offer back. Absolutely no way. If Kroenke wants him to stay by offering a new contract, putting a time limit on it doesn't follow logic. Added to the fact that Wenger has often left his extensions right up until the last minute, at least on the last couple of occasions under the current owner. The timing also makes little sense - why October? Arsenal are rarely that organised when it comes to 'transfers' and who would they be able to assess two months into a new season? Quite a bit doesn't add up for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralpheroo72
Generally Wenger has signed extensions quite late on but generally those periods he was still in a strong position and popular among most fans. Now there are protests, fans are regularly turning on each other. So I think there is an element of truth in this and there does need to be a deadline as obviously the board haven't got a clue who to turn to as next manager so probably do need around 7/8 months to find someone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
The other thing is, if the players know next season is Wenger's last then next season will be a total shambles. Look at City, a vastly better squad and totally underachieved as the manager is going. Chelsea haven't really turned it around still hovering mid table and they have had a caretaker manager. United lots of uncertainty around LVG and that could be part of the reason for inconsistent performances.
I think Wenger will sign again but I hope there is a break clause at the end of next season when Wenger is then given an ambassadorial role and we recruit a new manager. Or maybe this contract offer is to ensure the players don't go through the motions next season as Wenger could still continue in the role.
Let's say it's November, who could they possibly begin to start identifying then that would be a realistic option? If it is a decent manager (ahem) then they'll be knee deep in the current campaign and at best, their plans won't go tits up until Feb/March when overtures can be made. If it's a crappy manager, then 7/8 months surely wouldn't be needed to pluck them from whatever obscure job they might be in. Arsenal call, you pack your bags and you're off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumble
The City I put down to an ageing squad that is past its best. They were wildly inconsistent some time before this Pep announcement and that trend continued until the end of the season. I don't think they won back to back Prem games until last month. They also progressed further in the CL than they ever have (despite blowing the semi) so their focus seemed to be elsewhere too. Players under Wenger have been in the same positions in recent times (his last contract as an example) and they'll be thinking it's just as likely he'll sign as he'll leave. City have a different culture of turning over managers quickly and the players are very aware of that. At our club we have this very strange and unique scenario and I'm not sure the mangers contract situation affects the players approach too much. It'll be a shambles either way!
I can't see any other scenario beyond Wenger going upstairs and then being the man who picks out the next manager. No one in the clubs hierarchy seem to want to get involved too heavily on the football side of things, which is a big part reason why the club finds itself in the current situation. They rely too much on his input on and off the pitch and I can't see that marriage dissolving any time soon.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiSgfbBWEAAsJPz.jpg
:doh:
Henry Winter: Arsenal are insane to consider giving manager new deal
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ar...er-a-new-deal-
They could already have a shortlist of candidates. The deadline could be for when they make an official approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
It's nuts. Let's hope it's just a gesture if there is a such a thing. Offer him a really shitty contract so it looks like it's his decision to leave. I doubt that's the case though. We've probably smacked a £12m a year deal on the table!Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
It's like he isn't accountable for anything other than getting top 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
If he gets offered and accepts a new deal, I'm done until he leaves.
His press conference is coming up now. Hopefully the press grill him on it
I'm getting to that point. If we go into another season without a striker, I'll probably switch off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
Koeman would be a decent replacement. I just love the way his teams play fearless football and are able to get wins away to big clubs. He has lost about 6/7 keys players over the last 2 years yet he still managed to produce good football and god performances, this season they are on a record points tally I think and that is mainly down to him.
Our board rely on Wenger too much though and will continue to back him until the day he dies. They don't care about titles and winning, that's obvious by now. Soon as he gets them their 4th place trophy they offer him a new deal. If wenger really cared about the club like he says then he should announce right now that he will leave in the summer of 2017 and give the club time to find a decent replacement. Apart from those managers already at big(ger) clubs, I cannot see anybody turning down the job.
This is not a new story, the deal taking Wenger up until 2019 has been doing the rounds for over six months
I am inclined to think it's probably true as it will take him up to his 70th year (he'd be 69 and seven months). We know that the club will never sack him and it's quite probably only Wenger himself who is stalling on the deal as he'd usually sign contract extensions with eighteen months still on the clock. And it was only 2014 that he let his contract run down.
In some ways it also indicates the board are getting fed up with Wenger and dangling a deal in front of him but saying well take it or leave it, sign by October or we will look for other options and banking on him to be reluctant to sign a contract extension.
Don't get me wrong Wenger has his flaws and is infuriating but it's also clear that the board have been happy to use him as a lightning rod, this is a bit of a craven act. If Wenger signs a contract the anger is with him for being out of touch with fans and if he doesn't sign they can look for a replacement without creating any conflict or bad feeling with Wenger.
He just addressed it
@arseblog
Wenger on 2 year extension story - “That’s completely wrong, don’t know where it comes from. It’s an invention. Completely false”.
https://twitter.com/arseblog/status/731037447325401088
:dance:
Remember when he went absolutely crazy with journalists three years ago over a similar thing, said the only reason the report was there was to do harm (or shit stir to paraphrase).
Actually felt Wenger was well within his rights to kick off that day, wanky journalists who play act that they are on the side of fans to sell their Columns in newspapers.
When you think of the school girl crush attitude they have with Mourinho, hanging on his every word, would love him even if he told them he'd been fellated by their wives.
Tim Payton seems convinced that next season is Wengers last, he's claiming that speaking to people The Board is not going to offer him a new contract no matter what.
I don't believe anything that comes out of the club. Not that I believe the media either. But one thing's for sure, if something is happening the fans will be the last to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
Assuming that next season is his last, it's a tricky situation balancing making Wenger more of a lame duck than he already is against uniting the fans.
There is no doubt that an announcement that it was Wengers last season would change the atmosphere in the stadium but in a season where champions league qualification will be far more difficult than this season and I think it would be more important for us to finish in the top four next season than any other time if it is his last season.
:gp:
Watford's manager is leaving
https://twitter.com/BenDinnery/statu...59175195836417
Would take him here all day
#SignDaTing
Bacary Sagna .... we want you to stayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
This is the problem, rightly or wrongly the opinion of Wenger is so low than any Tom, dick or Harry would be considered better. I still remember someone on here saying Pulis would be a better choice.....nuts.
If we want an average manager we might as well stick with the one we have.
Certainly hope the board shows more ambition than you when the time comes.
Would you rather have an average manager that is tight firsted and patronises the fans as well as making excuses for his poor performance left right and centre or an average manager that spends and accepts his mistakes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
If you asked me if I'd rather have Wenger signing on for another 2 years or another manager where things could possibly change it's no competition for me, more of the same would be unbearable, as would his smug arrogant patronising manner.
That's where we differ, i want Wenger to go because i want someone in who can take us forward.....you want Wenger to go because you don't like him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Wenger's inaction in the transfer market and his press conferences are frustrating, but i wouldn't care about either if we were competing.
If we had won the title and Wenger had said "well we would have got an even higher points total if the fans had been more supportive" do you think anyone would really be that up in arms?.
Get someone in who has real ambitions and real ability by all means, but let's not pretend that thinking anyone would be better than Wenger is anything other familiarity breeding contempt.
The hypothetrical you present shouldn't be a neccessary choice whether Wenger goes in 2017 or 2019, his replacement should be someone capable of winning us the league and taking us further in the Champions League.
Maybe you think that qualifies QSF because of a Europa league final win over Roy Hodgson's Fulham in 2010, i beg to differ.
No me neither, what kind of clowns would offer a manager a new contract in the current climate, it's beyond a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
If the story is true, i think it's more of a result of a leak from the board/owner to put pressure on Wenger
a way of saying "you are going into the last year of your contract, if you are going we need to know before the end of the season to plan for that contingency"
They don't want to take the step of not offering him a new one which is a bit spineless, and if he signs than all the pressure shifts from them onto Wenger for signing it.
Wenger puts up with being used as a lightning rod because he knows he wouldn't have got the same level of "support" and autonomy anywhere else.
I want him gone for lots of reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
- He's tactically inept
- He's cheap
- He's a very poor planner
- He is convinced we play good football and entertain despite the rubbish we put out week in week out
- He insists on relying on injury prone players year after year despite them always getting injured
- He doesn't really address/recognise problem areas
- His substitutions seem to be planned before the season has started
- He's full of excuses and accepts no responsibility
- He patronises the fans and is arrogant
- He's too loyal to players who don't perform
- He spends too much on the future and not enough on the present
- He's very inflexible with regards style of play
- He doesn't study the opposition
- 4th place is like winning the league for him
So you see it's not just that I don't like him, though I admit his patronising manner does get up my nose, I feel a manager should be more humble (one that hasn't been that successful in recent times in particular) and should be accountable for his mistakes.
In an ideal world I want someone to take us to the next level obviously, someone already proven as top class, but until a change is made we'll never know how well someone else does, look at Ranieri for example, in addition changing manager would bring back some hope, excitement and unpredictability, Wenger is just so predictable and that is very very dull indeed, that's why I feel he's the most boring manager in world football.
As for if he'd won the league, well he didn't and he never will because of the way he is, there's no if and buts with Wenger he's so rigid there's really only one outcome.
There is never any guarantee that a new manager will lead to success, and yes it is a gamble worth taking.
My issue is with people thinking that "any" manager could be doing a better job than Wenger, which seems to me frankly ridiculous especially when so many of the people we have named as potential successors have fallen hard.
It's not an excuse to keep things going as they, but it's a reason to be extremely careful to make sure we get the right man in and not just "Wengers a cunt, anyone could do a better job than him". It's that kind of mentality which means those who want a manager change aren't taken as seriously as they should be.
And as much as Wengers attitude gets up your nose, someone saying that a journeyman like Quique Sanchez Flores would be a preferable choice gets up mine. I just think I'm glad that the choice won't be yours.
To a lesser extent I feel the same about Koeman, he is for me too old not to have won a big trophy in a major league so he should not be a consideration no matter how well he's done with Southampton. If we are to take a gamble I'd rather it with a younger man like Thomas Tuchel or Unai Emery.
Tuchel for me hasn't really proven himself, he's not won anything either and to be honest seeing as he inherited a team full of talent he's hasn't done a mindblowingly good job at Dortmund, their CL exit followed by that embarrassment by Liverpool really don't help, Emery is a good bet however, as I've said before Simeone would be my choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
It's all academic anyway. The one thing that seems certain is he's here next season and so are our despicable board. So we can declare the result now. Speaking of the future in the past tense, as it is safe to do as an Arsenal fan... We finished 3rd or 4th, got owned in Europe, played understrength sides in the cups and got knocked out and collapsed at the key moment when we could have mounted a title challenge.
So then 2017/18 - wonder what will happen? Will Wenger push his luck even further and stay on or will he bring a yes-man in and drive from the back seat?
It's all so exciting.
What do you like about Arsenal in its current status?Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Not a lot to be honest, it's a shadow of the club it once was, I'd argue as far away from a football club as you get in football today, no respect from the manager or owners, most of the players just pick up their pay packets and are actually not too bothered about whether they win or not, noone there really cares about the football or the results, it's basically all about money, I can't name one other club that behaves this way, what's worse is they get away with it scott free and actually have people defending their policies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
People say Wenger and co have made this club what it is, well if that's the case there's not an awful lot to thank them for IMO.
Champions league exit?....they didn't qualify for the champions league in Klopps last seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by Özim
They finished second in the Bundesliga pushing Bayern to the penultimate game of the season, and achieved a points total higher than Dortmund did under Klopp when winning the Bundesliga. You can call losing to a club managed by your own club's previous manager who has worked with almost all the players in that side and knows their strengths and weaknesses an embarrassment if you like. I think looking at the way Dortmund play and that this is only his first season in charge after a very promising start to his managerial career with Mainz this is a manager in the ascendancy.
I think Dortmund look good to watch and work hard when they don't have the ball. What Simeone has done is admirable, but a) i don't find Atleti's style of play in anyway enjoyable and b) I can't imagine he'd want to leave Spain.....you'd think if he had wanted to leave he'd have gone to Chelsea.
But then i could be wrong, he wouldn't be my top choice....but if we got him I certainly wouldn't be disappointed.
I know but what actually do you like, specifically? I ask because going by that previous list, there isn't a single thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
I think at the risk of answering for him that he loves the club just not its current trajectory.
And I think apart from a few idiots no fan is satisfied with how the club is at the moment regardless of whether they are Wenger in or out.
Apologies I got my wires crossed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
2nd to Guardiola's Bayern who IMO aren't that great so it's not unexpected they'd finish 2nd since there's not much competition in Germany and they certainly have the 2nd best squad of players. It was an embarrassment as they capitulated to be honest, they should have seen out the match easily enough against a Liverpool team who aren't all that great.
For me I don't want to have pretty play with a soft centre, I want a team who can defend and can perform at the top level and upset the odds, unless you have the best team winning with attacking football with not such a good defence doesn't work, build from the back and add flair to open up defences and some goals up front and you'll be likely to be challenging.
What do I like, some of the players but that's about it really at the moment, there's not much to revere unless finances interest you because on a purely football basis this isn't much of a football club anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
https://www.theguardian.com/football...d-jurgen-klopp
I think judging Tuchel through the prism of a two legged tie against Liverpool is frankly ludicrous
I think this is a guy who has it in him to surpass Jurgen Klopp if he stays at Dortmund, he has a great sense of tactical flexibility and getting the best performances out of players.
I honestly think Tuchel is exactly the kind of manager we are looking for, the innovator.
Based on that article this guy sounds like another Wenger, not sure that's a good thing, he seems to overcomplicate the game to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Jurgen Klopp laid all the foundations, his team won the Bundesligue and got to a CL final and were one of the best in Europe, despite his last season Tuchel inherited a great team so what he's not so far is nothing to ride home about. Dortmund should have won the Europa league based on the amount of talent in their team, their 2nd capitulation against Liverpool for me was a big surprise and I thought they were better than that, you might call it one game but it was the manner in which it happened against a Liverpool side in the rebuilding stage that was shocking.
IMO he's achieved nothing special in his career and what he's done at Dortmund isn't anything amazing either when you compare him to other potential candidates who have won things and outwitted superior teams with greater resources.
Basically following in Klopps footsteps he took Mainz to promotion and instead of getting them relegated again qualified them for Europe.
This same Dortmund side finished 7th last season and he's turned them into a much better side, took Klopp three years to win what he did with Dortmund. So for me certainly interesting to see what he does next season.
Love how you say sounds like another Wenger to me like it's a bad thing, would you have rather Wenger never joined Arsenal?.
Frankly I think a younger Version of Wenger who is a bit more tactically minded is exactly what the club needs. The problem with Wenger is that he is stale and no longer an innovator, but Tuchel for me is. He is clearly getting the best out of Aubemeyang and a lot of the other players who looked tired and worn.