Was Man United a watershed?

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Was reading Arseblog and this part struck me.



As LDG said also, we could see Arteta was getting marked out of the game but he did nothing for entire match. I don't particularly rate Arteta as a DM because he's not mobile enough or comfortable enough to drop deep, turn and pass the ball off quickly to mount an attack. He's not strong enough to hold his man off either. I've always rated Song for being able to do this with ease when playing as a DM and it really helped players like Cesc to just roam forward and find space. Fergie was in the stands and looked at where to target and he made sure all the attacks came down Santos' side and stuck Rooney on Arteta and kept a tight leash on Cazorla.

Wenger has lost it. He's stale, stubborn and we can all see it. Now the question is, how can things change? He won't listen to his players. People may disagree with RVP telling Wenger who to sign, but the captain should be able to speak to his coach about these things especially if you are asking him to commit his final years to this club. Henry did it as well. Wenger probably lied to him during the first contract talks and promised he'd bring in quality signings and when that didn't happen, Henry was pissed and went to the press as our season started to unravel again. So what are the options if he won't listen to his players, ex players, critics and pundits and seems blind to the results we see week in week out?

A boycott of games would be fantastic but failing that, the fans just need to kick up a right stink at the Emirates so the message is loud and clear. It seems like the only way now.

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Personally, I think that this season's performances might do it. I think we could well finish mid-table. Its only likely to be the lack of CL football next season that causes any movement. AW seems able only to take decisive action when his own position is challenged - which is why we see RVP, Song sold, but mediocre, unchallenging players played on and on. I think his folly in thinking he can rely on the likes of Diably, Rosicky - hell, even Gibbs is going to be exposed this season, and I think he will run Cazorla into the ground, and Wishere will be played more than he should be played, coming back from injury. I think Giroud/Podolski will lose heart, Walcott will be sold, and Sagna might be the latest player to decide enough's enough.

Its sad - but I can see no direction but down, ATM. Match days appear to be holding up, so its going to take the harsh evidence that manager and team aren't capable of qualifying for CL football - when this is what is repeatedly relied upon by the club these days to justify its existance - to convince the manager to go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Was reading Arseblog and this part struck me.



As LDG said also, we could see Arteta was getting marked out of the game but he did nothing for entire match. I don't particularly rate Arteta as a DM because he's not mobile enough or comfortable enough to drop deep, turn and pass the ball off quickly to mount an attack. He's not strong enough to hold his man off either. I've always rated Song for being able to do this with ease when playing as a DM and it really helped players like Cesc to just roam forward and find space. Fergie was in the stands and looked at where to target and he made sure all the attacks came down Santos' side and stuck Rooney on Arteta and kept a tight leash on Cazorla.

Wenger has lost it. He's stale, stubborn and we can all see it. Now the question is, how can things change? He won't listen to his players. People may disagree with RVP telling Wenger who to sign, but the captain should be able to speak to his coach about these things especially if you are asking him to commit his final years to this club. Henry did it as well. Wenger probably lied to him during the first contract talks and promised he'd bring in quality signings and when that didn't happen, Henry was pissed and went to the press as our season started to unravel again. So what are the options if he won't listen to his players, ex players, critics and pundits and seems blind to the results we see week in week out?

A boycott of games would be fantastic but failing that, the fans just need to kick up a right stink at the Emirates so the message is loud and clear. It seems like the only way now.

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i'd like to think that when we finish fifth this season it will change things but no, it won't.

only when he leaves will we at least see our teams problems at least attempted to be resolved.

Finishing outside of the top four won't harm his position with the Board. When people started to really question our chances of qualifying we were fed a load of tosh about it not being a disaster to finish outside of the top four, we'd survive financially..blah, blah, blah. With the new TV money coming in next year, that will soften the blow for them even more. Fan reaction is the only thing that can push the agenda and I'm afraid it's looking like Wenger will have to be harrassed out of the club by the supporters. His ego will have to be thoroughly bruised so he walks. It's like the man is a tyrant gone mad and it totally stinks to think it would have to come down to that because it's bloody damaging to our image as a club and us fans. It really sucks and I can see things getting ugly because he's accountable to no one.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Finishing outside of the top four won't harm his position with the Board. When people started to really question our chances of qualifying we were fed a load of tosh about it not being a disaster to finish outside of the top four, we'd survive financially..blah, blah, blah. With the new TV money coming in next year, that will soften the blow for them even more. Fan reaction is the only thing that can push the agenda and I'm afraid it's looking like Wenger will have to be harrassed out of the club by the supporters. His ego will have to be thoroughly bruised so he walks. It's like the man is a tyrant gone mad and it totally stinks to think it would have to come down to that because it's bloody damaging to our image as a club and us fans. It really sucks and I can see things getting ugly because he's accountable to no one.

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I kind of agree with you - for me, its a question of whether Wenger decides himself to leave. I mean you can hide behind the stadium project all you like, but there has to come a time at which you see how far your footballing legacy has come crashing down. For me, footballing wise AW continues to pat himself on the back (and in fairness, with some justification) for delivering CL football. When he no longer does so - and his stock has fallen so low that he cannot even draw the project players he wants to - I can see him walking...and I am probably one of the only people who doesn;t want him to move upstairs either, because his power and ego will end up screwing over whoever we get in.

Its going to be messy any which way you look at it.

The other point I'd make is that for all the virtues of having a long serving manager, the default position is that they will get stale. SAF has bucked the trend, but that is because he has always shared the burden by having a number 2 who can challenge him. Wenger has done the opposite - even, it would seem, with Steve Bould who clearly has no autonomy, because I simply don't believe that Bould would tolerate Santos, or Vermaelen's form.

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Originally Posted by Grimandi's Perm

I don't really understand our style of play at the moment.

Technically, the squad is very good, I just don't understand why they aren't able to create anything.

With a decent service, Giroud is easily a 30-goal striker.

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There are no willing runners. Gaps don't just appear by themselves, they're created by off the ball movement and at the moment we have none of that going on. It's just pass pass pass while the other team easily keeps their shape because they don't have anyone running in behind them to worry about.

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Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping

I kind of agree with you - for me, its a question of whether Wenger decides himself to leave. I mean you can hide behind the stadium project all you like, but there has to come a time at which you see how far your footballing legacy has come crashing down. For me, footballing wise AW continues to pat himself on the back (and in fairness, with some justification) for delivering CL football. When he no longer does so - and his stock has fallen so low that he cannot even draw the project players he wants to - I can see him walking...and I am probably one of the only people who doesn;t want him to move upstairs either, because his power and ego will end up screwing over whoever we get in.

Its going to be messy any which way you look at it.

The other point I'd make is that for all the virtues of having a long serving manager, the default position is that they will get stale. SAF has bucked the trend, but that is because he has always shared the burden by having a number 2 who can challenge him. Wenger has done the opposite - even, it would seem, with Steve Bould who clearly has no autonomy, because I simply don't believe that Bould would tolerate Santos, or Vermaelen's form.

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I don't think Bould would persist with this zonal marking plan either. I doubt anyone would want Wenger on the Board or involved with the club after he has gone. But he will and will probably be able to appoint his replacement.

zonal marking is nothing new. brian clough used it for christs sake.

everyone does it in open play. it seems to have become the new buzz word, like 'contact' fed to us by sky.

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Originally Posted by Grimandi's Perm

I don't really understand our style of play at the moment.

Technically, the squad is very good, I just don't understand why they aren't able to create anything.

With a decent service, Giroud is easily a 30-goal striker.

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I don't really understand our style of play at the moment.

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Not sure anyone does.

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Technically, the squad is very good, I just don't understand why they aren't able to create anything.

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Cause instead of using the brains, they need to be told what to do, just cause someone says pass pass, don''t mean if you find another way don't do it.

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With a decent service, Giroud is easily a 30-goal striker.

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:gp:

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Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

zonal marking is nothing new. brian clough used it for christs sake.

everyone does it in open play. it seems to have become the new buzz word, like 'contact' fed to us by sky.

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For set pieces and regardless who used it in the past, we're no good it and need to man mark players for corners and set pieces.

man marking still concedes goals and no-one criticises that. it's no magic fix.

have all the systems you want in place but if players switch, as ours regularly do, it won't make a difference.