Arsenal vs Fulham, Emirates Stadium, 26.08.2023 KO 15:00

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Originally Posted by Mac76

But why play Zin and not Rice? whatever you think of Rice, he's at least not the disaster area that Zin is

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Because Zinchenko is technically better than Rice, Zinchenko like Xhaka is an infuriating player but has the ability to be creative when not idling about. Rice is surplus to requirements in a game like this…Zinchenko as awful as he is more likely to get the game to open up. And the statistics bare out that Martinelli sees more of the ball when Zinchenko plays.

There’s no sense in worrying about defending because we will concede no matter what we do. But we need to be able to hold onto the ball and bring it forward

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Zinchenko as awful as he is more likely to get the game to open up.

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unfortunately the way he usually opens it up is for the opposition to attack us when he frequently gives the ball away

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Originally Posted by Mac76

unfortunately the way he usually opens it up is for the opposition to attack us when he frequently gives the ball away

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He does give the ball away a lot but so does Partey so there it is. I’m not comparing him with Partey, but he has successful passing stats especially with the give and go on the left.

It’s not ideal I admit, but as I say…not playing Havertz there, not playing Trossard there because he needs to be up front and playing Rice well we might as well call ourselves hypocrites for chiding Arteta for putting out a team that limits its attacking options

I'll say it again, I'd genuinely rather we turned out with ten men than have Zin, it might actualy encourage us to be a lot more direct instead of messing around outside the opposition area all the time

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Originally Posted by Mac76

I'll say it again, I'd genuinely rather we turned out with ten men than have Zin, it might actualy encourage us to be a lot more direct instead of messing around outside the opposition area all the time

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You can say it as many times as you like, you can pay for an airplane to fly the message over the Emirates on match day…doesn’t compel me to give a fuck. As far as I’m concerned your view on football means as much to me as that of my brother who is defending the lineup Arteta has put out the last couple of weeks. The fact that you go to games and think that gives you greater authority on what works is actually amusing to me. And for me it’s more sign of your sense of fragile ego that you need to be taken seriously.

That’s a bit caustic even for me, but the Gypos are over the field with their shitty funfair and it’s going to be here for a week. And even closing the window doesn’t drown them out. Wretched itinerant fuckers

Thanks for the (sort of) apology :) 'funfairs' drive me nuts too

Tbh am not bothered by what you said, maybe it does sound a bit arrogant to say i can see more at the game, I do just think some things can be more evident when you're able to see the whole field all the time, I'm in the upper tier so can see how it's all set out

And i could knock the fragile ego/need to be taken seriously argument right back over the net if I felt like it ;)

This is an Arsenal messageboard, we're supposed to debate the best player/lineup etc, I'm just surprised you think Zin has any merit whatsover, especially compared to Rice who's only played two games and has looked reasonably good if not spectacular (though I admit his passing has gone astray a bit more than I woild expect for £100m, I think he has generally shown much greater usefulneness both in defence and attack than Zin

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Thanks for the (sort of) apology :) 'funfairs' drive me nuts too

Tbh am not bothered by what you said, maybe it does sound a bit arrogant to say i can see more at the game, I do just think some things can be more evident when you're able to see the whole field all the time, I'm in the upper tier so can see how it's all set out

And i could knock the fragile ego/need to be taken seriously argument right back over the net if I felt like it ;)

This is an Arsenal messageboard, we're supposed to debate the best player/lineup etc, I'm just surprised you think Zin has any merit whatsover, especially compared to Rice who's only played two games and has looked reasonably good if not spectacular (though I admit his passing has gone astray a bit more than I woild expect for £100m, I think he has generally shown much greater usefulneness both in defence and attack than Zin

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As I said Rice is Frank Lampard, bit better in defence, not likely to score many more goals but he’s a roll your sleeves up player in the absence of any talent. Zinchenko is infuriating because he is casual and can take too long to pick out a pass but I disagree that he’s inferior to Rice offensively. He’s a better passer of the ball, a much wider passing range and a much better idea of how to see the game to get it to open up. Rice is a harder worker, a tidier player and has a lot of positional discipline and does seem to have good leadership skills. But he’s average, pace, strength, passing…all average. Playing him and Partey together will only serve to make things more defensive.

Oh I’ve got a massive ego issue, that’s why against my better judgement I respond to NQ on politics, even though it’s completely pointless.

I can understand the egos of people like Mourinho and even Trump, I share all their worst tendencies of going ad hominem…I think I enjoy it. And I don’t recognise that in Arteta, generally think he’s unbothered by peoples opinions of him. It’s quite possible he prefers players that won’t answer back, but I think because in his mind that’s the path of least resistance when it comes to implementing his plans, not to have a player say “this is not a good idea”. He’s not bothered by contrary opinions but he has no interest in them. Younger players are more pliable and more likely to buy in, where as older players more likely to want to stick to what they know.

How well he sells his vision I don’t know, but I do think he’s genuinely confused and frustrated that this new system he’s implemented hasn’t yielded more goals.

Kiwior in for Tomoyasu and Trossard for Nketiah, but ultimately any semblance of a sensible team is put to one side. By benching Gabriel and by playing White and Rice and by playing Havertz as LCM

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Kiwior in for Tomoyasu and Trossard for Nketiah, but ultimately any semblance of a sensible team is put to one side. By benching Gabriel and by playing White and Rice and by playing Havertz as LCM

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Benching Gabriel is mind-bendingly dumb, his partnership with Saliba was massive for us last year

He's clearly run up against Arteta's character defects and is out of favour, there can't be another reason