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Your original point is utter balls - implying he'd be right to leave when he has received by and large - immense support and patience - hardly deserving of us to have him bugger off at the first sign of him delivering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
he has been - for the past two seasons. even by the time it got to feb he had about 8 or so assists.Quote:
Originally Posted by GB.
that patience is the minimum expected when watching a player develop through his teenage years and since he hit 21 he has taken big strides, as the stats show. yet sky footbal mean we haven't got time to wait, he should become the player we expect before his time. very few players 'make it' so early. although the ever increasing frustration amongst fans about the club continues to funnel through walcott for example, when in fact he has been one of few that has contributed to us staying alive in the top four.
taking all that into account, he might well look at the club in general and think 'fuck me if i'm going to keep getting this hassle when i don't deserve it'.
Minimum expected?Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
He had his name shouted from the fucking rafters every time he managed not to lose a ball or run into a stationary player - for years.
A lot of players - an awful lot of players would bite their fucking hands off for the support Walcott has got.
yes, supporting a teenage player through his teenage years is the minimum we should do as a fan. if he develops into a nothing past 21/22 then sure, write him off. but he has now developed into a key player for the team.
i'm not sure why we deserve a pat on the back for supporting a young player through those years. to continue to write him off now is just ridiculous.
He is an incredibly frustrating player a lot of the time, especially given that he's technically quite mediocre and we've had some players like Pires in the past who were technically fantastic. However, his stats last season were very good, and apart from RVP he was the only player contributing with goals/assists.
I think he should try to develop into a Ljungberg type player from out wide. Ljungberg was also not technically amazing, but his runs from the right wing and finishing was outstanding, and if Walcott can continue to develop his finishing and off the ball movement, while at the same time contributing enough with the ball, he'll become a very good player given his limits.
You were implying he should leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
He didn't just get support that you give a kid coming on for you - he got more sustained support, no matter what than I can recall any other player getting in similar circumstances.
THEO was sung around the ground repeatedly for the most minimal impact, and to suggest that after circa 7 years of support and development that he should fuck-off just as he shows signs of delivering is the only thing I have issue with.
people say they want more creativity in the final third and that we've been lacking any real vigour when we attack this season but at the same time they want us to sell a winger who's been at the top of our goals/assists chart for a number of seasons. he may be inconsistent throughout the season but he's consistent at providing assists, and in a team that overdoes tippy tappy football and i personally feel is generally one dimensional, selling theo would be a huge mistake as he can completely change a game (as we saw the other night). what kind of message does it send out if we sell a player who's provided the most assists for us over the past few years, especially at such a young age? he's the type of player that could really haunt us in the future if we decide to sell him because i can only see him improving at another club. with ox coming into the frame it provides theo interesting competition as he used to be the first name on the team sheet, now he finds his position under threat. it will only help him get better and provide him an incentive to improve, much like the lehmann/almunia situation got the best out of almunia a few years back.
you cant expect to win trophies and league titles by constantly selling your best players, and whether people like it or not, theo is a very important player for us. he's still got plenty of time to improve so id rather stick it out and hope for the best rather than get rid and regret it further down the line.
No from the very first post you quoted I indicated I wouldn't blame him if he wanted to - there is a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by GB.
he isn't showing signs, he IS delivering - why you can't see that I do not know.
I would blame him if he did - he has had massive support over the years, your post indicating otherwise is way off the mark. To suggest otherwise indicates you don't go to matches very often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
And yes, they are signs because in order to be assessed as delivering, you have to do it consistently. I've already pinpointed right from the half of the game where he started to do that.
Lets hope he keeps it up next season, because despite his limitations, he has some key weapons in his armoury and he needs to keep up this latest round of development. Him pissing off at the first sign of delivering and a fan understanding that is incomprehensible.
again you've taken what you want from my post. he has also taken a lot of stick and continues to do so, which is spot on.
you pinpointed the tottenham game, when he was already well on the way to delivering early in the season before a dip in form.
him clearing off after too much unwarranted stick is something i wouldn't hold against him, whether you can get your head around that or not is none of my concern.
I have taken your post for what it stated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
What unwarranted stick?
He has throughout his stay had his name sung from the rafters....often for no reason other than being spotted in a tracksuit. I want him to do well and do well with us. But if he is going, I want the most we can get for him.
Suggesting he'd be somehow understood for pissing off for all this unwarranted stick that he did not get is what I have a problem with.
the very fact you still only see signs shows the stick he has and continues to face.
all those goals and assists from anyone else would not pose a question of consistency.
No it does not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
Opinions on a MB forum and support in a football stadium are two things pretty much entirely divorced from each other.
I'd like to see more than 3 months of what he can do. He is showing signs of what he can be for us, and as others have pointed out, he is 23 and he is even now not the finished article.
Not really, opinions on a MB are more extreme versions of those expressed at a game.
He has shown more than 3 months. The fact you are so blinkered to say he has only shown 3 months after so many goals and assists shows you are not neutral but biased against him - which shows the crap he has had to face from over expectant supporters.
You can't go to many games because you have no comprehension of the support he has received at the games nor do you have any understanding of the difference between discussion on a MB that contains about 50 active members and support at a match.
You are the one that is blinkered.
Non-mod GB :bow:
Kicking names and taking ass
i go every week and hear it all around me. you must've just woken up in the past three months.Quote:
Originally Posted by GB.
what you continue to fail to separate is that i acknowledge he receives support but also a lot of unwarranted stick.
after all, we're basing it all on your three month assessment, pretty laughable and completely isolated against what he has done on the pitch.
we can do this all day on who hears what and when and the bottom line is end product from the player.
find me someone else in the prem with more goals and assists than his over the past two years and then we can talk properly.
The stick he gets when he's playing poorly is warranted. He's inconsistent. As I said sometimes that inconsistency manifests itself in the same game (Spurs at home)
For the sake of clarity, what have you been hearing every week?
Also, for the sake of clarity, his performance over the last three months of the seaon, was a step above anything previous.
And we aren't basing ANYTHING on my assessment of his performance. This goes back to your assessment of all the stick which I say, he hasn't been receiving.
He has received tremendous support throughout his time here with very little exception.
i'm trying to keep the discussion objective rather than have to believe what either of us have or haven't heard.
and just like i thought, you've got nothing to offer there.
The problem I find with Walnut is that I often forget he is on the pitch, but then he can suddenly find a bit of space and burst into life. That might be his only contribution in a game but it will be a telling one.
I can see why he divides opinion, when he's good he's really good, when he's bad, he's really bad.
No, you made an assertion that you haven't even attempted to support.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
That is what you said.Quote:
hope he stays but given some of unfair stick he has taken by us lot
I'm saying that he has received a tremendous amount of support from the fans. Regardless of my individual opinion of his contribution, I and just about all the matchgoing public have supported him immensely throughout his time here. With few exceptions, every time he has come on the pitch, done anything on it, he has had his name sung out far in excess of that of his teammates.
I do think, we have seen a step change in his performance from February onwards, which I hope he maintains.
I can accept we'll differ on his level of contribution over the 7 years, but in terms of support received I just think you are wrong about that.
which has been supplemented and I have attempted to clarify several timew since and you've been alinging onto thAt half sentence>
spurious at best.
let's clarify. walcott was booed in that first half against tottenham - he admits he heard it himself.
hes that bust app
Fans from
of course it is representative, it was the peak of the frustration from fans who continue to overlook his contribution. booing a player does not just start in 45 minutes of football, it never does.Quote:
Originally Posted by GB.
as you said, it was a wall of frustration, as I mentioned earlier in the thread that is funnelled through to a few players over the past couple of seasons, walcott being one of em.
how many people got more goals and assists than him last season from out wide?Quote:
Originally Posted by jelgoon
I tried to give you the context, Tottenham - 2-0 up at our gaff, about to go 13 points clear, qualify for CL while ensuring we didn't, him having a truly shocking first half. All that context - bucket loads of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
All ignored.
Quite simply, we will never agree on the topic we have been discussing.
i should've said that pages back, when i was getting bored with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by GB.
oooh, get you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
no claws, just being honest. this is a distraction from work.
or shall we disagree on this too?
You'll need to start a different thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
Can't have that derailing the Theo talk.
Fixed it for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by jelgoon
Arsenal fans have been 10 times more patient with Theo as compared to any player I can remember. Probably coz he is English! :unsure:
Having said that, wouldnt shed a tear if he left and we got a player with half a brain on his head instead.
:sick:Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
There are better ways of showing intelligence.
Would actually be cool if someone could come up with the stats for Prem wingers over the past two seasons just to put things into perspective.
Aaron Lennon is shit, and runs like a spaz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
:good:
What stats?Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Number of times fallen over bootlaces
Number of crap crosses
Number of times not running back to help out fullback
Well, yeah, he's miles better than Lennon.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
And Young.
Downing, on the other hand...
Over the last two years...
Year - Games Started - Goals - Assists
Walcott
2011/12 - 41 - 11 - 9
2010/11 - 28 - 13 - 11
Arshavin
2010/11 - 36 - 10 - 18
2009/10 - 31 - 11 - 6
Valencia
2011/12 - 32 - 6 - 15
2010/11 - 15 - 3 - 3
Nani
2011/12 - 34 - 12 - 13
2010/11 - 43 - 10 - 15
Malouda
2011/12 - 21 - 5 - 7
2010/11 - 43 - 15 - 4
Have fun. :tiphat: