He only has himself to blame for persisting with certain players and tactics that have consistently let him down.
You'd think by now the huge amount of pain and humiliation would have affected him but it hasn't.
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He only has himself to blame for persisting with certain players and tactics that have consistently let him down.
You'd think by now the huge amount of pain and humiliation would have affected him but it hasn't.
Well yes, but if they demand to play, then they should at least show effort. Even the worse players in the world show effort. No point saying you want to play then do a santi and be shite all game or Poldi. Which is why i think the media twisted that shite about players demanding to play. Not one looked like they did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gervinho's Forehead
I agree though Playing Gev as a striker, when you have one on the bench was dumb. Though tbf both where bad as each other.
Ramsey was not as bad a gev today tbh. But we all know he is not a starter and we never seem to win when he plays.
Wenger is finished though, tactially inept, showed today.
I know that mate, just trying to say its time to let that part go.Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
I agree, it's not his fault that gerv can't score from a foot away from goal when given a golden opportunity, but the trouble is, we've seen this happen too many times, over and over again, and ultimately he is the guy who buys these players and persists with them.
Charlie, you don't know who 'demanded' (Wenger only said wanted) to play and who didn't, it could've been Arteta for all we know and he was on the bench.
Regardless, the manager has to extract performances from a team.
:unsure:Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivier's xmas twist
Charlie :hug:
If this was a few years ago, then yeh, I would be blaming the players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivier's xmas twist
Trouble is we've been here all too often, and its got to the point now, where he has lost the team.
They aren't playing together anymore, they just happen to be playing football at the same time as each other.
We have serious problems in the dressing room, Wenger can't fix it and we are witnessing the results.
meant they will notQuote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
Which is why i said i don't think that whole story was true. No of them looked like they demanded it.Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost of Christmas
Fairy snuffQuote:
Originally Posted by Jeebus
Yep, it is time to wheel out the 'little bit shit' excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
We've become a 'paying off the debt' club, but when it comes to competitive football we have been a joke for a long time. No tactics, motivation or defensive organisation, the basics that come from the manager and don't expressly need money or signings to instill, as those things will be of limited use if the basics are not there.
We don't have any debts to pay off now! That line used by the club wore thin a long time ago. But yeah when it comes to actually playing a game of football we're bloody terrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tipsychubbs
Very true, you look at bradford they were doing the bascis and hard work and it paid off. We just Arrogantly turned up and expected to win. Too many players with Arrogance and a manager who does not whip them into shape.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tipsychubbs
Its disgracefull really.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
Thats a good point, shame those younger then you will see what he has become, not what he was. Way i se it, its better he goes now because him staying will only embaressing himself.
Stil say he is a good manager not excellent as he used to be, but for Arsenal not the right man. He has to go where he can be motivated again.
He'd do well sorting out HSBC or helping George Osborne tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivier's xmas twist
I have no axes to grind with RVP. He was the reason we finished 4th and if we as fans are so angry and fustrated, how can you blame RVP for leaving the club to go to Man Ure, as much as it pains me, they are a proper football club with one agenda, WIN WIN WIN. Their phillopshy is if you finish 2nd nobody cares, thats why I have the utmost respect for the Glaser family and Fergie, they are making a ton of money but also spending it to stay ahead and win championships and cup finals. If only that **** Kroenke and Arsene Wanker followed the same model.
kronke has killed the Colorado Avalanche by penny pinching and the same will happen at Arsenal.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindFaith_8
does anyone know what made hill-wood have the heart attack? i wanna persuade wenger to follow suit.
Look at this **** journo already. He has no fucking clue what the status of Wenger's job is yet he knows there are fingernails involved. That's the only mention of this shock revelation in the rest of the slimy cock wart's excrement smeared across tomorrow's back pages.Quote:
ARSENE WENGER was clinging on to his job by his fingernails last night after the most humiliating defeat of a 16-year reign.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...#ixzz2EnTfUFJY
How does one so shamelessly destroy what would have been an enviable legacy?
Unfortunately there's been no yellow bar on SSN yet, apart from the one that says bradford city knock Arsenal out of the Capital One Cup.
wenger knows. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshGooner
This is absolutely not true. He has invested in every team he owns when there is a need for it. He is a big believer of continuity within the squad so his main flaw is that he persists with the coach/manager for the longest time possible. In our case, unfortunately we have a donkey as the manager of AFC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gervinho's Forehead
I'm not one for swallowing the corporate line, but even with the new commercial deals, when did the stadium loans/debt get finally paid off? Its news to me - thought we were at least 1-2 years away from doing so?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gervinho's Forehead
In February Wenger said this:
If its true, I'd be willing to expect some years without being title contenders, getting 4th for the CL money, as long as on the pitch the tactics, motivation and defensive organisation were there, and we really went for the cups. If Liverpool can pick up a CC then why can't we? But we can't even win the cups now so its all a bit depressing really. I'm thinking another manager might win us the cups, but would another manager get us 4th on the budget we are on? Being as sick of this "4th place trophy" as its become, if it helps us pay off the debt quicker then its obviously a necessity.Quote:
“I am surprised that you are surprised," he said at Friday's press conference. "Do you think the target of the Club is to lose money? That cannot last a long time. The target is to make a profit. It looks normal for any company in the world, so I don't know why it is surprising.
“We want to pay the debt we owe from the stadium we built, that's around £15 million [per year]. So it's normal that at the start, we have to make at least £15 million or we lose money.”
Wenger insists he does not feel that his hands are tied in the transfer market due to the financial requirements of the Club.
“I accept one basic principle for every company; that you can spend the money you make,” he said.
“It always looks like a massive surprise that I have to convince you of that. I think it is just natural common sense and logic.
“It is mathematical logic that what goes out has to equal what comes in. If that does not work then the company loses money.”
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-arc...r-stadium-debt
Without the debt there can be no more excuses, as the stadium would now generate the funds it was intended for, propelling us into the big league of earners. But on the pitch there's clearly something very wrong with the basics and it has been like that for YEARS, something which, as mentioned, stems from the manager. Its a complex and immensely irritating situation.
Woke up this morning and saw the result and though 'poo' - looked at the teamsheets and thought W T F!
Did not see the match but by reading the posts there obviously is no need to.
I take Ollies points and can relate a lot. . .my initial reaction to the score was our B team got done and Wenger has no excuses. . .as now, more than ever is a time to take an scrap seeiously but the team he put out showed that he wanted this and for this I think the players need to shoulder a lot of the feckin blame because they are a feckin joke.
On the other side of the fence is Wenger and even though I blame the multi millionaire players that ran out on the pitch, he is very much part of that team and should be standing up with them, bowing his own head in shame. It sounds as if he got it massively wrong again last night, Ramsey os not a winger and Gerv is not the tip of diamond formation, in fact a diamond formation is not what we should be playing. Feck,we know that, why doesnt he?
He makes the decisions, sold our best players, telling us the ones he brought in could deliver. . .deliver what? feckin milk? might have been so when that Mickey Mouse tin pot was named after the feckin stuff!
I dont think we have bad players, but they have some serious issues with consistency. . .I truely believe Wenger has lost the changing room and when this happens, the wruiting is on the wall, has been for a while to be fair and it is a real fecking shame, I am actually sad writing this but for the sake of the club. . .but the players also have to share the responsibility. !
Is he still here? :coffee:
We finished 3rd.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindFaith_8
I post this, not to pull you up or undermine your point.
I only reference this because the scrum running our Club have made 4th place ingrained in the whole psychology of the Club, right down to the fans.
And this is why we are the pathetic embarrassing shambles we are.
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
You are wrong. Completely and utterly wrong. I've posted many times about his stewardship of the Avalanche. They were a premiere club in the NHL, with massive attendances, won a Stanley Cup the second year he owned them, before all their stars left because he has them at the salary cap floor.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
They are in the same division as the Calgary Flames, and we used to fear them, now they are a banker result and they stink up the league while somehow still retaining the loyalty of fans.
Sound familiar?
Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2
Time to go now.
When your last expenditure was £50 MILLION on Giroud, Podolski, Santos and Mertesacker you know the game is up.
Wenger's gift was spotting talent.
he does know our board right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel_Quinn
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Japan Jingling All Over
More like he's lost the plot, its hard to see a man like what he was become like he has. Its like Clough all over again. The longer Wenger stays the more he makes a fool of himself and no one wants to see that.
Top post though agree 100%
Shit just read my own post, spelling is awful. . .fat finger syndrome kicked in at the wrong time :sulk:Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivier's xmas twist
Quote:
Originally Posted by GB.
I follow US sports but not the financial side. . .and that GB is really scary! Thanks :good:
WTF were we doing when we let that twat through the door?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japan Jingling All Over
stopping the other twat walking through the door :good:
Yep, there's a queue of twats lining up to rape the club. I really worry about the fans who want Usmanov in. Where's the limit? If Jimmy Saville was still breathing and wanted to put his cash into Arsenal, would that be okay? Saville was a sick bastard but his list of victims is tiny compared to Usmanov. And if we don't care about shit like that and it's only about the money then nobody should be complaining about Stan because that guy is 100% about the money to the exclusion of all else.Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
Spot on mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
Does Stan actually Own his other clubs? Or is he just majority owner.Quote:
Originally Posted by GB.
Usmanov is innocent, the court said so :coffee:Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel_Quinn
I totally agree, Usmanov is nothing but a Putin apparatchik but more than just accusations of being a shady character, is his involvement in heinous crimes and vast human rights abuses. Of course the current face of club management is a joke....Ivan Gazidis should sling his hook at the earliest opportunity. Problem is Kroenke runs Arsenal like he has run every other sporting franchise at negligible cost to himself, and self-sustainability comes at the cost of the ambition for sporting achievement.....surely any business works on risk ventures......i.e investing money in the squad to gain trophies and with it reputation to market the club as successfully as the likes of man united, barcelona and real madrid abroad......you won't get asian fans wearing replica tshirts for a club with an empty trophy cabinet and you won't get big business sponsorships either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel_Quinn
we can thank dein for that after all. loves the club he does. cheers dave. mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Japan Jingling All Over
probably nothing but weird he is talking in past tense.Quote:
Arsene Wenger has admitted his frustration at seeing Arsenal lose a succession of top players over the past two seasons.
The Gunners boss, speaking before Tuesday night's Capital One Cup defeat by League Two Bradford, was left to reflect on what might have been.
Wenger told Four Four Two magazine: "My regret is that we already had a great team two or three years ago which could compete on four fronts.
"We just missed out in the Champions League [last 16 tie] against Barcelona, when we could have scored in the last minute, and then we just missed out on the Premier League too.
"But you could feel the potential was there, and I thought, 'OK, let's do this together'. Then the team split up.
"Sometimes after five or six years' work, it is frustrating, you have to start all over again.
"We have lost recent players earlier in their careers - to lose Van Persie, Fabregas, Nasri and Song in just two years, it is a massive amount of potential, of course you worry."
The Arsenal manager has come in for heavy criticism following a seven-year trophy drought and he conceded that his reign has been far from perfect.
Wenger added: "I am not saying I never made mistakes. I was fortunate to work for this club for 16 years and I hope I respected the traditions of this club.
"I feel fortunate, but I think somewhere as well I tried at least to pay the club back with the trust they had in me."
Quote:
Arsenal fans are angry, and they're right to be angry. It's hard to be philosophical when you've just had your pants pulled down in front of everyone, dispatched from a very winnable competition by a fourth division side.
No matter how much Arsene Wenger tried to spin it, this wasn't the traditional tale of plucky upstarts snatching one on the break and camping out in their own six yard box. Bradford outfought their opponents, threatened at set-pieces, could easily have scored twice and didn't wilt until extra-time. Arsenal didn't even put a shot on target until the 69th minute. It was an inexcusably disgusting performance from all but a handful of their players and anger is the only rational response. But perspective is required too.
Arsenal are in the last 16 of the Champions League and they are only two points away from occupying a spot for next year's tournament. Not only have they qualified for the last 15 tournaments, but this is the 13th consecutive time that they've made it to the latter stages. That's where the money is, that's where the glamour is and that's why, as sick-up-in-your-mouth-and-curse-UEFA-straight-to-Hades annoying as it is, Wenger is right. Champions League qualification is just as important as accumulating secondary silverware. And I hate football for being that way.
"Gargh!" I hear you wail. "But a club like Arsenal deserves better than that!" Well, do they? In the first four seasons of the Premier League, the ones before Wenger, the Gunners hardly set the division alight.
In 1993, they finished 10th, 28 points behind champions Manchester United. They were 4th in 1994, but still 21 points off the pace. Back they dropped to 12th in 1995, a whopping 38 points behind Blackburn Rovers. In 1996, after heavy spending, they finished only 5th, 19 points behind Sir Alex Ferguson's double-winners. The truth is that George Graham's 1989 and 1991 titles were rare outbreaks of joy in two and a half decades of post-1971 under-achievement.
Arsenal have a fine history, they are one of England's most famous clubs, but they have no divine right to success. If some fans feel that they do, it's only because the bar was raised by Wenger.
The problem, of course, is that while the present is better than the past, there are growing concerns that it may also be better than the future. Arsenal are not a particularly good football team and they seem to be getting worse. They have good individuals, certainly, but for whatever reason, they are not clicking as a unit.
To put it another way, since the October international break, they have gone off the edge of a cliff like a runaway clown car. BOOM! Clowns everywhere. As someone who has witnessed most of those games from close range, I can tell you with the complete objectivity of a horrified neutral, that there is no obvious sign of improvement. Mentally, the players are as resilient as a glass crash helmet. They can¹t retain possession, they can't create enough chances and they're so poor in the air that they couldn't defend a corner if they were playing Gandalf's 'Misty Mountain Tour XI'.
But Wenger can only be blamed to a certain extent. These are not kids. These are highly paid senior international footballers and they are disgracing their football team with their pitiful performances.
Wenger, without even going into things like the stadium, the academy, the coaching staff, the scouting network, has done enough to earn time that other managers would be denied. He is not bigger than Arsenal, but Arsenal are bigger because of him. Besides, what would be served by sacking him now?
Pep Guardiola, on the off chance that he doesn't want to hook up with his mates at Manchester City, obviously isn't planning on leaving New York yet and at this point in the season, other options are limited. If Arsenal fail to secure a Champions League place, that will be the time to discuss a dignified exit strategy.
For now, it would be wiser to trust his judgement one more time, and hope that he can somehow engineer a recovery. This is a crisis. Of confidence, if nothing else. But it's not worth sacking him over. Not yet.
this is an article from a journalist called iain macintosh. quite like his stuff myself, and i find this an interesting piece. he makes very good points, and i find myself leaning towards his argument of not sacking wenger yet but then i think back to last night, norwich etc and i cant take much more of that, and serious mistakes were made, and perhaps to serious a mistake.
there is one line that sticks out in the article though that sums up both us and wenger
Quote:
Wenger isnt bigger then Arsenal but Arsenal are bigger because of Wenger