I cant take most of you guys serious, if we had bought Higuain and you found out that we could've bid for Suarez and got him for 40m, after he have scored 20+ goals, you would've all been "Wenger out" aswell.
Goonersweb :bow:
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I cant take most of you guys serious, if we had bought Higuain and you found out that we could've bid for Suarez and got him for 40m, after he have scored 20+ goals, you would've all been "Wenger out" aswell.
Goonersweb :bow:
Sure Wenger is a great manager and our most successful but there comes a time for change. Every Dog has it's day.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ogg Monster
What we are seeing now isn't some kind of accident, it's the same every single season. I don't even know what half of you pro-wengerites are waiting for? From a pure footballing point of view why should he stay on as our Manager?
Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
given john henrys interview today, not quite sure we can blame Arsene for not paying over 40 for usarez when he had a legally binding release clause in his contract for 40 million. thats surely the fault of the board or whoever does transfers
Anyway, why are people talking about Higuain to be some kind of savior? His stats are the same as Girouds, and thats playing in the italian league. Im happy we didnt pay 35m for him.
No Jonas, the brief was for Wenger to go out and purchase a top class striker in the summer. I would have been very happy with the purchase of Higuain irrespective of the price or who else was available. Wenger totally botched up the summer window in his pursuit of a striker, that's the bottom line. Do I think it screwed up our season? Of course I do...with quality up top we would be a totally different proposition IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasTC
What was said in the interview Ollie?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
This decision has to be made at the end of the season. There has looked like some progress this year but a collapse is looking worryingly likely now.
But no-one would have started this thread had the result gone the other way yesterday and we were a point off the top. It didn't, fine, but that shouldn't be the difference between this thread existing and not.
that the 40 million release clause was actually real and he felt in england contracts were not taken seriously so he gambled on us not taking it to court.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
We needed an upgrade on Giroud. Higuain might not have been the saviour but he's a darn sight better than Giroud. You go and check out Higuain's career stats at both club and international level if you don't think he's an upgrade. He's a proven top class striker.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasTC
The fun thing is, i've already done that and thats why i can say i dont see him as an improvement to Giroud. You should try the same before you say something like that :dQuote:
Originally Posted by selassie
In light of Henry's revelations, where he declares himself a deeply dishonourable man (just like the majority of players of course), it appears Wenger put in a real bid for the absolute best we could realistically buy given Messi and Ronaldo were non-starters. If Henry had honoured the contract he signed with Suarez then Suarez would be in an Arsenal shirt now. So the real question becomes, after Wenger made just about as audacious a move as possible to strengthen where we needed to strengthen, why didn't he find an inferior solution in the short time remaining after the Suarez deal fell through? He tried for Ba as backup but Maureen played that to the chav's advantage which is his job. Seems like Higuain went by the wayside in our pursuit of Suarez, doubt we could have afforded both. January we tried for Draxler but I guess we made a judgement call not to blow a big part of the summer budget on such a young player. Legitimately it could be asked why didn't we get any old player in as cover? To which I guess Wenger must view "any old player" and Sanogo as equivalent. And all the while there was the question of Giroud. No problem to replace him with a Suarez I would think. But replace him with a second tier striker? Why bother, we'd have only seen the same results.
As for Ozil, that's probably part #2 of the plan that occurred before part #1 (the striker) because an opportunity too good to let slide popped up and we still had the money that was supposed to be spent on Suarez in our pocket. Or, as some fans seem to suggest, it was a £42mill appeasement after 8 years of flatly ignoring to appease calls for a quick fix. Or not. More likely we're seeing the plan unfold out of sequence due to circumstances that didn't develop as we'd hoped.
It's not unreasonable to conclude Wenger is more than happy to spend the money if he thinks he's getting something better than we already have and in fact he's said as much in the past. Which suggests there's every chance we'll be in the market in a big way come the summer. If we aren't then that raises a whole different set of questions of the type we haven't genuinely faced before.
Also I'm not a "Wengerite", I'm an "Arsenalite". I can see something taking shape from the nondescript lull that has been the last 8 years. I think eggs are going to be in short supply come the summer and omelets will be Gooner facial fashion by May 2015.
I can see the difference between Higuain and Giroud, Giroud is dogshite, Higuain isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasTC
That's a big difference.
No I wouldn't, I would have thought well glad we bought a striker, Suarez is good but I'd rather have Higuain than no one. Higuain for me is easily in the same class bracket as Suarez and we could have signed him and he would have come to us.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasTC
i think Higuain was perfect for us, definitely the same quality as Suarez and without the baggage
Oh dear, Giroud = Higuain ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasTC
:doh:
problem for me is that if we got rid of Wenger who do we get in to replace him, only candidate for me would be Jurgen Klopp and I think he has lost a lot of his prestige. I think Wenger should be a) allowed only one year contract extensions and b) has his power at the club watered down especially over transfer negotiations
He had the whole summer to sign a striker. We only moved for Suarez towards the end of the window.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Higuain is not even close to being in the same class as Suarez though, is he? Suarez is top tier, among a handful of players in the world. Higuan is one step down from that level, though still a very good player. I'd agree, more accomplished than Giroud. We must have really thought we could pull the Suarez deal off. And I can see why now. The player wanted to come here, there was a clause that said he could, we offered the money, Henry broke the terms of his contract with Suarez. That last bit killed the deal. I guess we didn't take into account owners could be as dishonourable as players. Interesting if this is allowed to stand without sever penalties levied against Liverpool. The whole contract things has been vigorously defended by the authorities since Bosman. Now Liverpool say they are ignoring it. If it rides and we are ever faced with an RvC situation again we can hold out with confidence. Henry has dramatically changed the face of the British game. Also this puts Suarez in a much more understandable light, no wonder he went on strike.
This signing someone only if he's better stuff he's been coming out with for years and yet he's disproved his own theory with many of his signings and has ignored the opportunity to sign players clearly better than what we have as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
IMO, Wenger won't ever win another trophy and there's plenty of evidence available to suggest why, he can't motivate, his team never turn up at crunch time, his substitutions are generally awful and always seem to happen at the same kind of time, his tactical nous is average at best, he's too stubborn and won't deviate from his masterplan of dominating the world with pass pass football, his squad is always top heavy with central midfielders and short in other areas, he overrates his players to the detriment of our chances of success, he thinks players who get injured all the time can be relied upon.
There's probably more but that's a start, I absolutely don't trust him to do the necessary in the transfer market, he never does, he's now had almost 9 years and had money last summer (which apparently was last chance saloon, just like the summer before than and before that) and still failed in the transfer market in terms of the teams need.
There's no more excuses now, no more places to hide, he's had plenty of time and it just hasn't worked out, he tried it his way and sadly for him his way has proven to be flawed and now it's time for someone else to have a go.
We don't know the details for sure but it appears we had Higuain lined up, our early window activity, then a better option surfaced, our late window activity. Looks like we sacrificed Higuain to pursue Suarez. Also Higuain's price kept going up as I recall. We ended up with neither. A fuck up in some respects but certainly not an indication of a lack of ambition. Seems we were being as ambitious as it was possible to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
Yeah he did, plenty of strikers flying around last summer, we seem to sit on our arses for 3 months and then decide it's time to do something last minute. If you can't find a decent striker in 3 months you're doing something wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
It shouldn't take 1-2 months to sign someone, if you want them you offer the money, if it's turned down you either make a bigger bid or move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
He's signed players ranging from Sanogo through to Ozil. I don't think anyone would seriously claim these are viewed as comparable signings. One is a young player with potential, the other an established first team player. So there have been duds for sure but not all of theme were ever designed to be first eleven. For a Santos you have a Mertesacker. For a Gervinho and Oxelade Chamberlain. I would say we've done just as well in the transfer market as any other club (including the chavs and gypos who have had more multi million disasters than can be recalled).Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Why do you make a bigger bid when there is a clause in a contract specifying what you need to bid? Henry dishonoured the contract, obviously he was intent to use any means to tie Suarez to Liverpool. Plus, unlike some, we have to earn the money we spend so there are limits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Perhaps he has, but his claim that he won't sign anyone unless they are better than what we have is nonsense, plenty of 1st team players signed weren't good enough or better than what we had and many we sub standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Ox was signed as a kid not ready for the 1st team, I think he's terrific but at the time we needed first team players and he failed to address this issue properly, IMO in the transfer market he's been found wanting, because he's signings have never been about the teams needs, they've been more about the players he likes.
Well we didn't know that for sure (if we did then we should have taken legal action), but if you're not going to then just move on and find someone else, we spend months chasing players and often end up with nothing, at the end of the day if you need a striker and one isn't realistically going to come because he's too expensive or he wants to move elsewhere you don't site around and wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
We didn't have to sign Suarez, there were other players available which would have improved us and having failed to sign him we should have made sure we signed one, we have the resources.
Personally I think we should take Liverpool to court on this, not to get Suarez (we won't) but out of principle, if true then they've broken the rules and should be punished accordingly.
I've had enough of being in the same place every season now, if it happens once, twice maybe three times you can't put it down to bad luck, but after 8 almost 9 years of it it's not down to bad luck anymore, it's down to the person who builds the team, sets the tactics and chooses the team, I don't really understand how we can continually fail every single time it really matters.
I don't. Bottom line is if Suarez has accepted it then ultimately there's no case to answer. The only lot who can make a fuss about this now are the authorities because this sets a precedent that throws everything since Bosman into the air.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
It's not up to us to take them to court. The contract was with the player and he evidently didn't want to pursue legal action.
The 8 years represents the time it has taken to execute a financial plan that gives us the resources to take us from the bargain bucket and into the same market as our direct rivals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Buy out clauses will be about as worthless as the contracts that contain them then I guess, may as well not have one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
What I find strange is that Suarez would have known about this if this is true (he signed the contract), so if he really wanted to move he would have taken action, makes me think he wasn't that bothered to come to us.
It doesn't explain the collapses every single season though? What has that got to do with finances, it seems to have more to do with mentality, tactics, team selection, preparation and motivation to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
We've had teams that were well placed, all they lacked was motivation and desire, you can't buy that.
Makes me think there's a World Cup coming up.
and an International friendly in midweek in preparation for this ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
But seriously, are you saying Suarez didn't move because he thought it might affect his world cup chances? Can't see it myself, he's guaranteed a place as he's one of their best players, doesn't seem to lack belief in his own ability either.
No, not fully. There's a psychological weakness there for sure. And something up with the whole fitness/ medical thing. But not being able to buy three world class players for every position does explain some things in terms of direct comparison with clubs like the chavs and gypos. It's a curse having international players in the squad, but not enough top quality internationals to account for the terrible attrition rate we seem to suffer from poxy friendlies and non-event fixtures. Recall how Fergie found every way to stick two fingers up at the national teams, we should do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Team selection and tactics seems to be dictated by this fear of a lack of resources. I don't like that either. I'd rather have 20 players out and be playing with adventure and being beaten than see the conservative shit we see now. On the other hand, everyone screamed for a tighter defence, less goals conceded. We have that now but there has been a cost. We haven't found a middle ground and it may not be possible to find one without further investment in the team. Which brings us back to the point. Following the unwinding of this hellish 8 year stadium thing, we should now be in a position to properly invest in the team. In terms of going for the top. If we don't then of course there is a big problem.
No, I'm saying lawyers are trained to string these things out to eternity. Suarez was left with a choice, play or rot. He was chucked into the reserves wasn't he? And training alone? In the end a big player has to play and Liverpool became his only option when the terms of the contract weren't honoured. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the whole process starts up again in the summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
8 years of failure have neatly coincided with our apparent lack of finances, in which time somehow we have managed to accrue a bank balance of 120m. Something in that logic seems a bit fishy to me. I wonder what the excuse will be next year when we will be fighting again for the 4th place trophy. By that time it will be 10 years without winning shit.
Yes, absolutely yes. Even we somehow fluke a FA cup win, I want him gone. He is well past his prime!
Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk
The bank balance fluctuates up and down as certain revenues and expenses occur thorough the year. Provided the money can be accounted for there isn't a problem and a good portion of it must surely be available for investment in the squad. If we hear the shareholders intend to withdraw money, like the last bunch of absolute bastards, then the panic button needs to be hit hard. No indication of that so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner