Well - its good news for City, Chelsea & Liverpool - we're the team they all use to get their goal average up.
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Well - its good news for City, Chelsea & Liverpool - we're the team they all use to get their goal average up.
:rolleyes:
I'm probably one of the few people who would have been fine with this either way - I think Wenger is probably coming to the end now, and that it's time we started considering other options, but I also still like the guy, and don't think it's the end of the world if he stays on for another couple of years.
IMO what we're seeing here is the beginning of us gradually transitioning him out, and I think that's probably the right call, even if it means another couple of years of more of the same. After nearly 2 decades in charge, Wenger is tied to nearly every part of this club - more areas than he ideally should be - and that's not something you can just tear out without making a mess. We need to gradually strip his role right back to that of a head coach again before we let him go (because that's what his successor will be), and we need to make sure any responsibilities (and power) he currently has that he shouldn't has been redistributed to other people (ideally new people, who are tied to the club and not loyal to one man). I think this process has already started, with the appointment of Jonker and a couple of other coaches (and the telling reshuffle of who's in charge at what age groups), and I suspect similar moves might be happening with whoever handles transfers, but we'll have to wait and see on that one.
But in the meantime, it looks like it's Wenger for two more years - if/when that contract gets signed, there's no choice but to get behind him and support him...
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
yeah, this is pretty much how I view it though with a slightly less rational head as I want him gone now. Saying that I don't think he will do us any harm being in charge for the next 2 years...I just don't believe we will make any real progress.
I am definitely coming round to the idea of a gradual handover of his duties which as you said seems to be happening now.
I am worried because we seem to have stagnated as a club while every other major team is in transition and seeking to move forward. Each year it seems we fluke 4th place with one of the other teams, City, United, Chelsea or Pool having a lousy season. Like it or not the CL is what gives this club the little prestige it has left worldwide and losing out will not kill us as a club but it will empower another team to gain an advantage on us. 5 into 4 places just doesn't work. With Wenger sticking to his failed strategies I am afraid we will likely be the ones who will miss out.....Ergo the death of Arsenal as a superclub. Not that we really were anyway
Also gets a :gp: from me as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
I dont think 4th place and the FA Cup means he deserves to stay on, but I have never been in favour of him being forced out either. I was hoping he would decide to call it a day, but as that decision clearly hasnt been made yet we could end up in a bit of a mess if he were to be forced out. As mentioned above, their needs to be a clear and thought out succession plan. And with the board keen for him to stay on, it just doesnt sound like we're gearing up for a change.
That said I will go into the next couple of seasons with no real expectation of challenging for the league or CL, which is a shame.
That's the spirit! If you go into every season expecting nothing, then you can only be pleasantly surprised! It works for me anyway - I go to work every day thinking everyone is a total bastard except me, and I'm rarely let down...
at the start of the season winning a trophy would have been the improvement i sought for me to want him to continue with us, although my concern is that the apalling defeats to chelsea, city, liverpool and everton really make me question whether he can push on....that plus his outright refusal to sign a striker makes me more concerned that we will slip out of the top four with a rejuvenated liverpool and a man united side fresh from taking a season off.
I'm not sure it's fair to say he refused to. Top class strikers - players who would genuinely improve us - don't grow on trees. He tried to get Suarez last summer (I wonder how this season would have panned out had he succeeded) and it's rare for a real top signing to be made in January. It's bound to be top of the shopping list for this summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
He may not have directly refused to but he sure as hell made a complete mess of the situation. In a indirect way he did refuse to by not paying the "market value" for the strikers he was chasing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I think if he didn't have history with screwing up deals over his "valuations" then he would have been given a lot of leeway last summer.
To go two seasons with only 1 senior striker at the club is simply not acceptable, it wouldn't happen at any other top 4 club. The sad thing is our senior striker isn't really good enough to start for us either.
A change of manager will not guarantee immediate success . Wenger is one of the top 5 managers in the world and we must be lucky to have him . Should he decide to leave , Real Madrid , Barcelona , Paris Saint-Germain , even the two Manchester teams will go for him and have a laugh at us and mock us .
What is really needed is a change of philosophy within our team . At Highbury , Arsene was a hot and winner manager . With the Emirates projet , everything suddenly change . Even with that , he manage to maintain the team at a respectable level with a restricted budget .
The question we should probably ask is whether we have done enough financially or not to alleviate our debts in order to start spending like any other team with big ambitions . Wenger staying should be a good move for Arsenal and not a bad one as few are tempted to think .
Wenger has been a great manager for us but the key words are " has been". Not so sure the big European teams would go for him because they all realise that success in modern football is linked far too heavily on spending big, which Wenger doesn't do. For example if he were manager of Real would they have spent £90 mill on Bale, if he was manager of PSG would they have the players thye have today - doubt it. Nobody expects us to compete with the Chavs or Gypos on overall spend but Wenger still believes players should want & feel privilaged to come to Arsenal - Why?. We haven't competed with the top Euro teams for years & we have a regular struggle to finish 4th every year in England. For this reason he still thinks offering £10 mill less than asking price is clever & that player power will swing things - it won't. The big clubs don't haggle over £10 mill, if they need that kind of player, they get him - the repercussions of not getting that player far outweigh the £10 mill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
I don't think Madrid spending 80m on Bale has made any difference at least atm . Bale hasn't made Real Madrid any stronger than they were . It just demonstrated their punching power in the transfer market .Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
Anything in this life is a learning process . Wenger , despite his stubbornness , is not stupid . He learnt from his mistakes . Back in the day , he used to get rid of players reaching their thirties and it was working fine . But when his youth policy failed , he realised he was depriving his team of the experience of old players that they needed . Now he rarely let them go unless they are not good enough or want out themselves . His philosophy of not spending is nearly come to and end . Who would imagine one day Arsenal would spend on one player ( Ozil) more than what United and City have done ?
Wenger is still the right for the job for me , despite some frustrations .
"he learnt from his mistakes" - if ever a person is proved to continually year after year to NOT learn from his mistakes its Wenger. The Ozil signing in my mind was desperation after the Villa result & the backlash he got from the fans after another Summer of disaster in the transfer window. If we had won the Villa game, I doubt we'd have signed Ozil. Remember after the 8-2 against United, same thing went out & bought 3 players, desperation - this is after the season has started!. He NEVER learns from his mistakes because in his own mind, he never makes them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
He doesn't learn. From Le Grove regarding injuries.
Problem after problem with injuries and we're still talking about luck? We knew we had key players missing before the January transfer window and did nothing about it. We say now that we're doing an investigation but we've said this before and nothing has changed.Quote:
INJURIES
Some Wenger quotes:
“Traditionally November has not been a good month for us, but I explain that by the fact we had more injuries, it is the first period when they kick in.” Nov 09
“We have analysed absolutely everything. It’s strange because the more injuries you get, you then seem to get even more because you always play the same players. Also, you rush some players back and then you have more chance to get them injured again.” Jan 10
“We got the injury of Cesc, which was the consequence of a bad tackle. The injury of Ramsey is the consequence of a bad tackle, the injury of Gibbs is the consequence of a bad tackle. We got hit hard. Once you get a few injuries you cannot rotate any more and the players like Vermaelen, who is injured now” Apr 10
“Overall, if you look at all the numbers, ours are not much more. What we have more is long-term injuries than others clubs but they are down to bad luck and bad tackling. Or they were picked up with the national team. Also once you have had an injury there are more chances to be injured again.” Oct 10
“We know now that a large percentage of players who play a lot of games between the ages of 18 and 21 have bony stress responses. I never expected the number to be so high. It happens because your skeleton is not completely finished and the bones are not completely developed to absorb the kinds of shocks you get in the Premier League.” Mar 12
“Statistically, you will lose one or two during these international breaks. This time we lost Koscielny [and] Walcott. Everybody else came back [without injury]. This is the period where you start to have injuries.” Oct 12
“Some of them [muscle injuries] are down to the medication that the players take that you don’t even know about. Then you realise afterwards that they took this medication but that’s not prudent. [..] If you lose your hair and you’ve taken something to make your hair grow, it might not be good, especially for the rest of your body,” Apr 14
So, there you have it. Injuries are down a natural consequence of the calendar; injuries breed more injuries; bad tackling by the opposition; inability to rotate; they aren’t really that bad; bad-luck; the national-team; over playing-youth; international breaks and, urm, medical & hair supplements. Never coaching or training methods. Nope. Never. I digress; to surmise, they are all external factors outside of his control. Fair enough- at least he has absolute clarity and conviction on what the causes are.
“I am concerned that this happens. We are analysing very deeply why it happened and to see if there is a link between all these injuries. For Walcott it’s completely bad luck. Wilshere – I don’t think it is linked with the other injuries, it’s more linked with his history and the kick he got. But the rest, maybe we have to find why it happened.” Asked whether he would review his training and medical procedures, Wenger said he would assess “everything”. “It’s very difficult to find any obvious reason why. Why? I don’t know.” Mar 14
This is the biggest problem with Wenger throughout the years, never learning from mistakes/past problems.
If he did things wouldn't be half as frustrating as they are, he seems to rely on players just improving naturally to fix any problems.
We're not going to go anywhere if he thinks injuries are the issue and that the injuries are just down to luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
He's not top 5, doesn't even make top 10, all the below are better managers:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Mourinho
Ancellotti
Guardiola
Heynckes
Lippi
Del Bosque
Fabio Capello
Ottmar Hitzfeld
Cruyff
Simeone
Jurgen Klopp
Come on Zim - you could have said top 11 - how can you not put Neil Warnock inQuote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Don`t forget Madrid have been after Big Sam for years
He's never gone out of loyalty for the club he was with, West Ham, Blackburn and Bolton fans owe him their lives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner