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Which is 100% Wenger's fault. But even so, having one member of the back four standing around with a perplexed look on his face while the game buzzes around him, that's never useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by WMUG
Most irritating game since the last one we played. We had the three points there but the manager is a massive bottle job who thinks you can win a title by statistics alone.
Wenger is lucky Alexis and Jack were up for this or his dumbarse "tactics" and crybaby formation would have got another pasting. I hate to see things go to waste and Wenger is wasting this team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Mm, that's true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I thought Monreal had made a solid start to the season personally :shrug:Quote:
But even so, having one member of the back four standing around with a perplexed look on his face while the game buzzes around him, that's never useful.
Any manager who gives a player like Ozil a defensive responsibility is taking the piss. Ozil doesn't play the left for us, he covers the left. Different thing, then stick Monreal behind him and fuck me :doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by WMUG
Yeah as a winger and he can even defend against opponents who can't run faster than an OAP.Quote:
I thought Monreal had made a solid start to the season personally :shrug:
What this performance told us more than anything today is Wenger is going for 4th again. If you won't take a few risks to get a key win on your own patch that can generate vital momentum then fuck it, the game's up anyway.
You're such a vagina sometimes. You have to appreciate a good quality game when you see it otherwise what's the point of watching football? We didn't play badly, we played well - as did Man City, and it was a great game to watch with some fantastic individual performances from both sides and great goals. Sanchez and Wilshere for us, and Aguero, Silva and Fernandinho for them. I was far more pissed off about the Leicester result or even the Crystal Palace performance (despite the win). Today wasn't bad even if we didn't get the win.
That is one fine piece of selecting from a quote and completely altering the context.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
When did you start your apprenticeship at the Daily Mail?
it's interesting that we bemoan our defence, but looking at the league....no-one seems to be defending that well at the moment.
In an alternate universe where we are really going for the title, that game today could have been the decider. How often has 1 point made the difference? If we were away then I could understand the negative approach. But at home, against a weakened opponent, we dropped vital points today. We had the players to get those points, but not the manager.Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn
The two hardest working players were rewarded for their efforts with fantastic goals. Jack Wilshere had a point to prove and it was a fantastic goal. Played some brilliant passes and should have had more than one assist. Sanchez is a true World Class player that has it all. He works, he battles, he can dribble, shoots....most exciting player we've signed since Arshavin. Really impressed with him so far and he doesn't hide from the big occasions.
Which brings me on to Ozil....he's the opposite of Sanchez. He hides, he doesn't work hard enough and showed zero quality in that game. He should be benched for the Champs League game. Cazorla should be starting ahead of him. He's been a flop. Ramsey had another off game. Wayward passing and wasn't working hard enough in the middle. He needs to rediscover his form. Missed his chance to score a goal. Welbeck.....besides the chance he missed, their isn't much else to say about his performance, which worries me. It's early days for him so he'll need some time to adapt but I wouldn't be surprised if Wenger took this opportunity to start Sanogo, I bloody hope not! Flamini was awful. Ball watching for the first goal, can't pass, has no power...poor. Kos and Merts weren't switched on....the whole defence weren't. Monreal......
We were looking flat and defeated before Jack's goal as if we were waiting for them to score. We weren't pressing and just stood off them. I have no idea what's happened to our defence. It was a poor 2nd goal to concede but at least we didn't lose the game. On to the next game. The result and the performance from Sanchez and Wilshere are the positives but we need to get back to solid defending.
You said we generally play like relegation fodder. Not a selective quote, it was a complete sentence in your post. If you didn't mean today then I don't understand why you posted that in a match reaction thread to the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve French
We didn't play poorly today. It was disappointing to get our noses in front and then drop points but overall I was encouraged by the performance. I was far more concerned with the performance at Leicester where we did look like a mid-table side, today was much better.
I'm unclear why people are blaming Wenger. It was a good game which could have gone either way, Ramsey finishes that chance when Wilshere put him through (difficult chance to be fair, but he's capable) then I reckon we'd have won it. Conversely City had chances to win it. The post was hit 3 times, once by us and twice by them. There are such fine lines in football, you can't generally blame one person for a result, unless you get a real thumping I guess.
That :good:Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn
The rest of the post talks of today. Save confusion and quote the whole post. You took the totality of what I said and twisted it by quoting one sentence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Fine. I was just making the point that I thought today was a good performance and I don't understand (although I guess I should have got used to it by now) the negativity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve French
We didn't set out to get a point. I thought we got the balance right. A bigger push and rather than us getting the winner, Man City would've been far more likely to pick us off on the counter. Thinking of the home game against Dortmund last year where the team seemed to get carried away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxbmK9QCYAAPqSM.jpg
Gibbs :bow:
Don't agree with any of that. Ozil is getting caned because he's not playing like Ronaldo, not because he's playing badly. People are judging by expectation rather than performances. He gave the ball away a few times, which is rare for him, but so did other players, particularly Ramsey. But he'll still provide at least a couple of incisive passes a game and they often make a difference. Playing him on the left is a criminal waste and that's down to the manager. Expecting him to cover back is just dumb, that's not his game. Stick him in the Silva role and you have twice the result. Welbeck was a good presence up front, much more mobile than Giroud, hassled their defenders, stole the ball back a few times and wasn't afraid to take responsibility. Was an inch away from a dream start. Media will be all over it like they were about his cross that was perfectly good but Sterling gave up on. They'll ignore the fact with his chance today he was sharp, got into the position and looked plenty composed to me given he didn't lash at it. When Wenger says he'll improve him it makes me shiver. Probably end up with another back to goal flickmeister.Quote:
Which brings me on to Ozil....he's the opposite of Sanchez. He hides, he doesn't work hard enough and showed zero quality in that game. He should be benched for the Champs League game. Cazorla should be starting ahead of him. He's been a flop. Ramsey had another off game. Wayward passing and wasn't working hard enough in the middle. He needs to rediscover his form. Missed his chance to score a goal. Welbeck.....besides the chance he missed, their isn't much else to say about his performance, which worries me. It's early days for him so he'll need some time to adapt but I wouldn't be surprised if Wenger took this opportunity to start Sanogo, I bloody hope not
Which one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling Archer
It's simple enough. We had the tools to beat them today but the manager blunted them with his negative team selection, crappy tactics and laughable substitutions. These are the games we HAVE to win. Massive victory for the gypos today, they'll take an away point against a rival any day. Defeat for us. We had something to prove but all we proved is the manager will hide when the tough games arrive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
They exploited the glaringly obvious weak point for the first goal. Wenger has seen this for months and done nothing about it. The for the second goal watch Monreal again. It's all very well blaming the guys who actually tried to prevent the goal, yes they failed but they tried. Reality is they were a man short, Monreal was as perplexed as usual, standing around watching. A defence is a unit, take out one of the parts and all the parts fail. Now we have lost Debuchy, I bet this turd gets a run of games on the right so he can carry on destroying cohesion in the defence. Wenger will see it and do nothing. He's even got him pegged as cover for CB. What sort of a joke is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn
Playing Flamini meant we set out not to get beaten. I can even accept that in some ways, after the hidings we got last year. But when he saw the gypos were light in midfield, were playing Silva behind the striker and particularly when he saw the first 15 mins he could have adapted to take advantage. But he didn't. He never does. It gets wildly frustrating.
End of the day, two home points dropped. Manager at fault.
I've made the point above about fine lines. We could have won today, we could have lost. A draw was probably about right on the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
If you get a thumping then you can think about where it all went wrong, with a game which could have gone either way and where one or two incidents could have gone a different way and produced a different result it doesn't make sense to over-analyze everything like the press do and declare so definitively that so-and-so got it wrong.
Good performance. OKish result but could have been better, could have been worse.
Ozil is caned because he's playing shite! He was just as bad in the middle , where he often drifts out wide anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Did you see those poor efforts on goal that went well wide? Yes, I expect better from a professional. He had no influence on that game and the one or two incisive passes he makes just isn't enough to warrant a starting place. He's lost his place in the number 10 role for a reason. If Jack keeps playing like that and if Ramsey gets his game together, where will Ozil play? He needs to step his game up. Damn right I'm expecting more from him.
I think it's too harsh to say he's playing shite but he's not playing like a £40m player.
We have high expectations of him - rightly so - and he's not living up to them. Not consistently enough.
If Wenger played Arteta and Flamini, that would equate to negative tactics. We went out to attack and played a strong squad. There isn't much he could have done except start Arteta and Gibbs but they're coming back from injury. Playing Ozil out wide is the only eye raiser, but who do we leave out if he starts?Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
He'll play in behind Welbeck - obviously, and rotate the role with Santi. Absolute no brainer. Any other manager would be doing it. This business about who will go where, the team picks itself, no difficulties at all when injury, suspension and cups/ CL are factored in. It's just that Wenger then goes and messes it all around and makes it complicated. Also never forget that Jack is shit, a flop, failed, useless, has been and we should sell him. Or maybe not now that he's started to play well again having come back from a year out. Same with Ozil, just because the media says so doesn't make it so.
I thought Flamini was poor for both goals and I'd happily replace him in the side for Rosicky.
Glad to see Wilshere making progress which imo he has been doing all season so far. His right foot is arguably his biggest weakness so good to see him finish with aplomb on it. Welbeck did well but really should have scored. Chipping a ball accurately between two goal posts is a skill all pro's should be able to execute most of the time. From forwards to goalkeepers. Scholes' comment was annoying but true.
Sanchez was great, although he does tend to hold on to it a little too long at times. Monreal looks like he is running through water whenever he has to defend.
I actually didn't think Ozil was too bad today.
In isolation, a draw to the current champions and arguably the favourites for the league isn't a bad result.
However it's disappointing because of certain factors exclusive to us:
- Yet more dropped points this season especially coming off the poor Leicester result. Six points lost is a lot after four games.
- Yet another failure to dispatch a big team. A worrying trend coming of the back of last seasons results against them.
- Another poor performance defensively. We've shipped far too many goals so far.
There's a long way to go but with Chelsea in the form their in, Man City with their squad depth and United throwing millions to reclaim former glories, it is quite worrying. Top four could be challenging let alone the title.
Really thought City were there for the taking and with some better tactical organisation and defensive maturity we could have done them today.
Annoyed with the DM situation as well. Everyone knew that we needed better than Flamini and Arteta at the start of the window yet we've ended up stuck with these two. To be fair I can understand Wenger's logic that with the number of replacements already brought in that adding more would disrupt the squad but I think it's cost us this season so far. Flamini just isn't good enough - someone needs to be brought in this winter.
Tl;dr - We need to start a run of wins urgently.
He wasn't. But there's a plot line to maintain and ratings depend on it. Also now that Jack isn't a shit loser any more and has become the new Jack Wilshere overnight, Ozil will have to carry an even bigger burden in the media.Quote:
I actually didn't think Ozil was too bad today.
Flamini is for Stoke and Hull to save Arteta getting beaten up, proper player required for technical games.
Oh yes...and even though Ramsey missed that sitter, his run was amazing. You could clip it and use it as a textbook, perfect example of how to make a run beyond a back line. Beautiful to watch....even if not the finish! If his form doesn't pick up....just play him CF.
I do find the wilful and constant dismissal of Wilshere on here annoying and slightly strange but he doesn't always help matters with comments or getting caught smoking etc.
I'll be delighted for him to ram it down peoples throats though.
Forget the price tag. I remember Nasri having similar performances and I was just as critical and he's a much cheaper player. He hasn't had enough influence in big games like this and it's not good enough. A few safe and accurate passes isn't enough, especially when we lose so much defensively when he's on the pitch. You need to be a beast on attack if your not going to defend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Ozil at the moment is playing almost as incompetently as Arshavin at his worst. It's as simple as that. Basic passes going astray, terrible touches, pushed off the ball. No-one here is talking about his defensive duties. His basic game isn't even there.
You're wrong here N_Q. If he pasted 'Monreal' on the back of his shirt, you'd instantly notice every one of his many current deficiencies.
And I'm obviously the prototypical, knee-jerking, Daily Mail-endorsing, Ozil-hating bastard, aren't I?
If he played behind Welbeck today, Wilshere wouldn't have been starting and he was on his A game today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
If we're not going to get that big, black, powerful, nasty DM, then we should at least be playing a footballer there. Flamini offers nothing. And Arteta is often too limited to contribute either way. By playing someone like Rosicky there, it would improve our fluency tenfold and it wouldn't make any difference defensively either. The improvement to our midfield control and attacking play would make up for any possible defensive deficiencies anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico
Wenger's inflexibility in these situations is his worst trait. He simply must stick with Arteta or Flamini.
On the man to man vs zonal....I was once an avid man to man fan but over the years the evidence has been inconclusive. All I remain concerned about is that regardless of the system, two players (preferably the full backs) are on the post....and I mean ON it, or at least close enough to touch the post with a part of your anatomy whatever that may be. If you are not that close to it, you are making some kind of disparate wall on the goal line which is futile, or just getting in the way of the goal keeper whilst opponents are running around unmarked.
Flamini did not start on the post for the second goal and Sneezy started far too forward. The result was both of them back peddling before the ball had even begun to be directed goalwards and neither of their execution in stopping it being effective enough.
At least 2 goals this season have been conceded simply because we haven't taken the cover on the posts seriously enough. For all the psychoanalysis about why we have not gelled that is one relatively easy thing to correct imo.
I am disappointed by the context of the result, i think after dropping points against both Everton and Leicester i think we needed to win today, six points between us and Chelsea is a massive gulf to have after just four games.
I don't agree that the side put out today was a negative one, i think Wenger has the failing of playing what he thinks is his best players rather than playing a side best placed to beat a particular opponent. Playing Ozil left was a big factor, but the fact remains that the guy is either lazy or seriously lacking in confidence. I don't think it helps to shoe horn him in on the left just so everything fits into your desired formation, but where as Cazorla i do literally believe cannot play wide left i think Ozil has it in him to do that, i think there is something lack in him in terms of either drive or confidence. It's not like he's performing well for Germany and it's just Wenger's obstinancy that is failing to get the best out of him....there's something not right in the mind of the player.
Monreal is just someone who cannot be trusted against the big sides, he has neither the pace or the skill to do anything to aid us against quick opponents....
There have been a lot of changes across the back four in such a short space of time, so instead of the settled solidity we had last season we have very disjointed performances....had this game been played at the same time last season we would have gone on to win all three points....i'm sure of it.
I agree, i also think we are too passive and ball watching on crosses and set pieces....we need to be attacking the ball more, the full backs need to be staying back and preventing crosses from coming in, and one of ramsey and wilshere near the clear the ball to prevent the second ball from coming in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
In general, I think we're too passive and ball watch even in normal play. I don't get why we allow teams to have so much space when defending deep. When we don't pressure the ball carrier, we're at their mercy and just have to hope they don't deliver the right pass. It's really bad. Sanchez is the only guy that really puts pressure on defenders and it's probably because he's so used to playing with Barca.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
I didn't have too much trouble with Wenger's line up though I'd agree Ozil is not best used on the left. No point in even looking at the gap between us and the chavs. We will never win the league because we will never score the most goals. To win the league that is pretty much what you have to do these days, so dilly dallying with our forward options for years on end equates to not seriously being prepared for winning a league.
It is sickening to see Costa do even better than I anticipated too and at the behest of Fabregas and Mourinho to induce the vomit even further. 7 goals in 4 games. I would act surprised by his flurry of goals but we were here discussing his goal tally being level with Conaldo & Messi last season so I'm not sure there can be too much alarm that he has scored with regularity so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I usually try to avoid using basketball to convey a point but I will this time (the urge is always there for me). :d
I think you basically have to play a man to man / zonal composite.... or a half court/pitch press. When the opposition enter your half you then squeeze the space because your lines never get too far from each other and the space is easily recovered.
If you do that right the way across the pitch before they eneter your half you drag your formation and lines too far apart and the opposition finds space between your lines. It is also more tiring!
That said, when Sanchez closes down 2-3 of the closest team mates to him need to follow suit lest we render his efforts null and void....but he will need to do it selectively as we don't employ the same system as Barca. He can do all the tracking back he likes though!
:lol: I'm all for that analogy. Funny enough, that's what I was thinking during our game. It looks like a half court press instead of full court but we don't actually put pressure on our opponents even when they're in our half. They're given just as much as space in our own half. We just allowed them to pick out passes and they were uncontested by our players. Not even an attempt to throw the passer off with a challenge or make the angle more difficult. I'm talking key passes here where their midfield is looking to put a striker through on goal. Hardly any pressure. It's all on the defenders to try and stop or mark the runner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice