Match Reaction vs Southampton (home, league).

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

A strong captain apparently prevents us from shipping goals, from having no tactics, from defensive fuck ups.

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Nope. Didn't say any of that :)

I thought we played ok this game - and against Dortmund and West Brom.
Much better than at the start of the season.

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Originally Posted by sibreen

I thought we played ok this game - and against Dortmund and West Brom.
Much better than at the start of the season.

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We're the second most boring team in world football, after the chavs. The only thing we excel at is frustrating the fuck out of increasingly disillusioned and disinterested fans. We need to change everything about the way we approach and play games. Then we might be playing okay, but as it stands there's nothing to commend this string of soul crushing non-performances.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Nope. Didn't say any of that :)

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Wenger's successful sides had a strong captain, Adams then Vieira. We've not had one since. No way are we slipping from 3-0 up vs Anderlecht to draw with a proper captain. There's no-one out there rallying them when things start going wrong. I don't see that as the manager's role, that's where a strong captain steps in but we don't have one.

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Let me guess, you meant something else now?

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Originally Posted by Letters

Nope. Didn't say any of that :)

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Wenger's successful sides had a strong captain, Adams then Vieira. We've not had one since. No way are we slipping from 3-0 up vs Anderlecht to draw with a proper captain. There's no-one out there rallying them when things start going wrong. I don't see that as the manager's role, that's where a strong captain steps in but we don't have one.

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Let me guess, you meant something else now?

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

We're the second most boring team in world football, after the chavs. The only thing we excel at is frustrating the fuck out of increasingly disillusioned and disinterested fans. We need to change everything about the way we approach and play games. Then we might be playing okay, but as it stands there's nothing to commend this string of soul crushing non-performances.

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The problem is we do not have the bodies in central midfield to make the style of play that we want to and should play tenable, our slight and slow players in the middle of the park get outmuscled and overrun and negates our opportunity for quick counter thrusts

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

The problem is we do not have the bodies in central midfield to make the style of play that we want to and should play tenable, our slight and slow players in the middle of the park get outmuscled and overrun and negates our opportunity for quick counter thrusts

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We have excellent players that should be able to adapt to multiple roles and systems. But they don't have discipline and they are given far too much freedom on the pitch. That's down to one man. What this season is reinforcing for me is that a decade ago we had even bigger legends playing for this club than we've given credit. These guys were not only superb footballers but they must have been super intelligent and super disciplined to work around Wenger's lunacy. Even those players didn't go on and win in Europe which is a scandal because we easily had the best team on the planet at one stage. It really doesn't matter who Wenger buys if he's not going to get over himself and start applying the basics to the way we approach opponents and matches.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I know Ramsey was Wales captain. I think there were a couple of others a few years ago who were captains of their national teams.

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Do you think Ramsey would be the best captain since Vieira though?

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Originally Posted by WMUG

Do you think Ramsey would be the best captain since Vieira though?

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Not sure about that but he'd have been better than Vermaelan who couldn't even get in the side last year.

Ramsey was such a good captain they took the captaincy off him.

As for leaders, we don't have any and haven't had any for years, some people tried to convince themselves certain players we had were leaders but they weren't.

Wenger doesn't really see the importance of leadership on the pitch, come to think of it he doesn't see the importance of a lot of things on the pitch, like tactics, discipline etc etc.

Mertesacker is the closest thing we have to a leader.

Very experienced too. No brainer IMO.

There is a depressing lack of options in our squad.
I did consider Wilshere as he's one of the few players who I feel 'gets' what playing for Arsenal is about, but he's too erratic both in terms of performance and temperament.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

We have excellent players that should be able to adapt to multiple roles and systems. But they don't have discipline and they are given far too much freedom on the pitch. That's down to one man. What this season is reinforcing for me is that a decade ago we had even bigger legends playing for this club than we've given credit. These guys were not only superb footballers but they must have been super intelligent and super disciplined to work around Wenger's lunacy. Even those players didn't go on and win in Europe which is a scandal because we easily had the best team on the planet at one stage. It really doesn't matter who Wenger buys if he's not going to get over himself and start applying the basics to the way we approach opponents and matches.

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Arteta, Flamini and Ramsey are just not the type of players to give you midfield authority. Whilst i agree that physically stronger and more athletic players would be wasted by Wengers mismanagement, I don't think a better tactical set up would necessarily improve how we play, it might make our results better as a result of utilising our players properly but we'd still look like a load of old pony in the middle of the park

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

Mertesacker is the closest thing we have to a leader.

Very experienced too. No brainer IMO.

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The same Mertesacker who regularly gets caught too far up field and doesn't do enough to protect less experienced centre back partners. Whilst I agree that Wenger is to blame for our apalling defensive tactics, but Mertesacker doesn't take responsibility for himself let alone others.

The fact is there isn't a leader in our squad, otherwise that player would have naturally emerged.

Wenger has destroyed the concept of leadership at Arsenal

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Originally Posted by Letters

There is a depressing lack of options in our squad.
I did consider Wilshere as he's one of the few players who I feel 'gets' what playing for Arsenal is about, but he's too erratic both in terms of performance and temperament.

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Jack is an overrated thug who has never come close to meeting his potential, his reaction to Fellaini in the United game plus his selfish attitude on the ball suggests he is as far away from being Captain, as Ed Milliband is from being prime minister

To be honest the only player that has shown the attributes of a future captain for me is young Chambers....he tries to cover for his fellow defenders, he works hard and he makes hard but honest tackles

Lets hope he's immune to Wengeritis

I thought Wilshere was outstanding in the two recent games for England, his form for Arsenal has been patchy though and now he's injured of course.
He is quite the chav though, in different circumstances he'd have been on Jeremy Kyle by now.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

The same Mertesacker who regularly gets caught too far up field and doesn't do enough to protect less experienced centre back partners. Whilst I agree that Wenger is to blame for our apalling defensive tactics, but Mertesacker doesn't take responsibility for himself let alone others.

The fact is there isn't a leader in our squad, otherwise that player would have naturally emerged.

Wenger has destroyed the concept of leadership at Arsenal

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Christ are you going to stop playing devil's advocate with every post nowadays, I know you're trying to be this really balanced, analytical poster but you're just arguing for arguments sake.

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

Christ are you going to stop playing devil's advocate with every post nowadays, I know you're trying to be this really balanced, analytical poster but you're just arguing for arguments sake.

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No i just don't Mertesacker has exhibited any kind of leadership qualities this season, unless you're seeing something in him that i'm not

If i agree with someone i tend to say, but if i don't i don't....i don't see how balanced or analytical comes into it.

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

Let me guess

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Some day you'll get it right.










































Today is not that day.

:lol:

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Jack is an overrated thug who has never come close to meeting his potential, his reaction to Fellaini in the United game plus his selfish attitude on the ball suggests he is as far away from being Captain, as Ed Milliband is from being prime minister

To be honest the only player that has shown the attributes of a future captain for me is young Chambers....he tries to cover for his fellow defenders, he works hard and he makes hard but honest tackles

Lets hope he's immune to Wengeritis

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It worked for stevie me gerrard :lol:

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

The same Mertesacker who regularly gets caught too far up field and doesn't do enough to protect less experienced centre back partners. Whilst I agree that Wenger is to blame for our apalling defensive tactics, but Mertesacker doesn't take responsibility for himself let alone others.

The fact is there isn't a leader in our squad, otherwise that player would have naturally emerged.

Wenger has destroyed the concept of leadership at Arsenal

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Totally disagree with your Mertesacker views though I can't be arsed to (wholly) go into why.....but Mertesacker's poor execution of any of his defensive duties is not him shunning his responsibility at all. In fact I think he has regularly shown responsibility on and off the field....... and in terms of character I think we are extremely lucky to have him frankly.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Jack is an overrated thug who has never come close to meeting his potential, his reaction to Fellaini in the United game plus his selfish attitude on the ball suggests he is as far away from being Captain, as Ed Milliband is from being prime minister

To be honest the only player that has shown the attributes of a future captain for me is young Chambers....he tries to cover for his fellow defenders, he works hard and he makes hard but honest tackles

Lets hope he's immune to Wengeritis

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The line between good and bad is sometimes a thin one and Jack has exemplified that in a footballing sense this season and I actually believe he has been far more good than bad, but some of his other antics have overshadowed it and that has sometimes been his own fault.

He is one of the most talented English midfielders we've produced in recent times and one that has spent around half of his professional adult career on a treatment table......but that can be wilfully dismissed depending on how much he annoys you. In the first few games I stated he played well and had outplayed Ramsey (in spite of Ramsey scoring), but that was somewhat overlooked but I think that tone has been set as Ramsey hasn't played really well all season and Jack has been much better than many are willing to give him his due for.