Arsenal 2-0 Stoke - Match Reaction

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

If they had to a choose an opponent to get their season back on track, it would be us.

---

Sure. But, by the same token, I don't think we could have picked a better time to play them...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Wright said no such thing about movement from wide positions being better. :lol: What were you watching? He showed an example of bad movement where he didn't run to the back post for Bellerin's cross and said he has to learn that. Next he said he made a fantastic run but blamed Ozil for passing to Ramsey. Showed another good run from the centre where he was in on goal but should have shot with his right foot.

Wright was critical and fair. Said he believes Walcott has the tools to play there but needs a run of games to get clinical. Praised his goal for the touch and finish.

We can try Bif up front but he doesn't get the chances on goal. It's rare to see Bif get chances where he can score a hat trick. Very rare and he'd have never scored that first goal.

---

Fair enough, I may be mixing in some CBS coverage I watched earlier. Was pissed as a pissed newt. That said, I'm guessing everyone can see pretty clearly how Walcott can be used to better effect. Except yer man, who knows better.

Also Walcott himself, who knows better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WMUG

Also Walcott himself, who knows better.

---

Yeah, it's weird how he believes he can play the role.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Agreed. The problem is Ramsey had the season of his life 2 years ago, not just for the goals but his tackling stats were through the roof. He was pretty much the complete midfielder but unfortunately he hasn't come anywhere close to replicating that form. WUMger has always had a huge amount of trust in him, even before he really arrived in 13/14.

I would be interested to see how we'd function without Ramsey in the team, and in his place one of Theo or Oxlade out wide.

---

The problem is he doesn't know what to do with Ramsey at all. Play him centrally, out on the right, or up behind the strikers. His game needs reigning in a little to make the best of his talents but like everyone else, there is no control over where or what he does. I can imagine him flourishing in a more structured set up like Citeh, because Aaron has everything to become one of the best in the world as a CM. He is becoming a bit of a scapegoat because of that when really the bigger problem is lack of guidance from the manager and team mates. He has no one to learn off at all because he still hasn't settled into his right position.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Fair enough, I may be mixing in some CBS coverage I watched earlier. Was pissed as a pissed newt. That said, I'm guessing everyone can see pretty clearly how Walcott can be used to better effect. Except yer man, who knows better.

---

Not if you're drunk. :lol:

What's weird is that you've never rated Walcott on the wing. Or Giroud up front for that matter. We may see the combo in a game or two but I'm not convinced. Giroud is like a statue when playing up front and doesn't have the pace to make up the ground. If Wenger has the stats to prove he's better at scoring with his first touch, then it's no good him playing with his back to goal.

As for Theo on the wing, he's not a dribbler like Sanchez and can't penetrate a defence like that so we're depending on someone picking up his runs. That's why he's quiet on the wings against deep defending teams. As a striker yesterday, we held the ball in our opponents area and still managed to dominate possession in their half so any talk of us not being able to do that with Walcott goes out the window. It's easy to point to this game as why he can't play there but he scored at the end of the day and on another day could score a hat trick, like he's done in the past. Do we swap that for a striker that can go games without scoring or ever looking like scoring? We'll find out soon enough. I think he needs time to develop there and I really question Wenger's wisdom in playing him as a right winger for all these years if he's said his future is as a striker.

Theo wide right and Bif through the middle is probably our best strike force because they both compliment eacthother well.However, Wenger doesnt play Theo on the right anymore, maybe because he doesnt think Theo's defensive work is good enough, but it was a decent partnership in Giroud's first season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kano

The problem is he doesn't know what to do with Ramsey at all. Play him centrally, out on the right, or up behind the strikers. His game needs reigning in a little to make the best of his talents but like everyone else, there is no control over where or what he does. I can imagine him flourishing in a more structured set up like Citeh, because Aaron has everything to become on the best in the world as a CM. He is becoming a bit of a scapegoat because of that when really the bigger problem is lack of guidance from the manager and team mates. He has no one to learn off at all because he still hasn't settled into his right position.

---

Wenger uses that right wing as some sort of throw away experimental position. He always has. Ljunberg was an attacking midifleder. Played more like a number 10 for Sweden but we play him on that right wing. Wiltord was a striker, turns him into a right winger. Eboue got games there. Walcott gets played there. Ox gets played there. I don't understand what Ramsey will learn from playing there. If he's a central midfielder, what experience is that adding to his game?

If Ox will play as a central midfielder in the future, what's the point of playing him on the wing? What's it adding? It's the same for Walcott. He was supposed to be developed into a striker and there is this huge question mark over Walcott's ability to play there so I don't know why Wenger does it other than just to fudge his best players on to the pitch all at once.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Not if you're drunk. :lol:

What's weird is that you've never rated Walcott on the wing. Or Giroud up front for that matter. We may see the combo in a game or two but I'm not convinced. Giroud is like a statue when playing up front and doesn't have the pace to make up the ground. If Wenger has the stats to prove he's better at scoring with his first touch, then it's no good him playing with his back to goal.

As for Theo on the wing, he's not a dribbler like Sanchez and can't penetrate a defence like that so we're depending on someone picking up his runs. That's why he's quiet on the wings against deep defending teams. As a striker yesterday, we held the ball in our opponents area and still managed to dominate possession in their half so any talk of us not being able to do that with Walcott goes out the window. It's easy to point to this game as why he can't play there but he scored at the end of the day and on another day could score a hat trick, like he's done in the past. Do we swap that for a striker that can go games without scoring or ever looking like scoring? We'll find out soon enough. I think he needs time to develop there and I really question Wenger's wisdom in playing him as a right winger for all these years if he's said his future is as a striker.

---

I don't really rate Walcott (anywhere on the pitch) or Bif. But that's what Wenger has left us with so these are the players we have to go with. Yesterday wasn't really about Walcott's movement, or lack of it, it was about a ball played by Ozil. Walcott has pace and he has a 1 in 5 chance of a finish in him. So how do you use a player like that? Ozil showed us. It would be tempting to imagine Wenger fuming inside at the vulgar way we exploited the Stoke defence while playing to the strengths of our own personnel. A great passer, a pacey 1 in 5 finisher, a big striker who can take the hits, isn't so great at finding the net but isn't bad at holding the ball up and bringing other players into the game. It's not hard to figure how you can put the three things together and come up with something at least workable, even if not so highly tuned. Yes, tippy tappy has to die in the process but thank God for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I don't really rate Walcott (anywhere on the pitch) or Bif. But that's what Wenger has left us with so these are the players we have to go with. Yesterday wasn't really about Walcott's movement, or lack of it, it was about a ball played by Ozil. Walcott has pace and he has a 1 in 5 chance of a finish in him. So how do you use a player like that? Ozil showed us. It would be tempting to imagine Wenger fuming inside at the vulgar way we exploited the Stoke defence while playing to the strengths of our own personnel. A great passer, a pacey 1 in 5 finisher, a big striker who can take the hits, isn't so great at finding the net but isn't bad at holding the ball up and bringing other players into the game. It's not hard to figure how you can put the three things together and come up with something at least workable, even if not so highly tuned. Yes, tippy tappy has to die in the process but thank God for that.

---

Underestimate that first touch and finish if you want to. The touch was sublime and set himself up perfectly to take the defender out of the equation and line up a perfect shot. If that had been a Song passing the ball to RVP, people would be creaming themselves over the finish and downplaying the ball from Song. I've seen this before. I'm not taking anything away from any of the players. A beauty of a pass from Ozil but the first touch was important as well.

This whole concept of a striker holding the ball up and bringing others into play is what facilitates tippy tappy play in the first place. It's dragging players like Santi further forward, playing a higher line with the defence and leaves us vulnerable to a counter attack. What you describe is exactly why we have games where we require 500 passes to get into the opponents box. It's what we've been doing for years and we haven't been successful at it with Giroud.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Wrighty made a few good observations on MOTD last night. He showed how Walcott's movement in the centre is almost non-existent and how he only really sparks when he's coming from the wing and cutting in. Walcott is so obviously more effective out there, wonder why he's so determined to play centrally when he's not good at it? Theo wants a run of games so he can establish himself centrally - now many goals will it cost us to give him that run? He has to play wide and Bif has to play centrally. The real problem is Wenger's refusal to choose 2 from Ozil, Cazorla and Ramsey. He's determined to play all 3 all the time no matter the opponent.

---

If you ask me where I do I want to play, I'd say centre mid. If you ask me where my best position is, I'd say in goal/CB. The preference to a position never really leaves a professional, they just get on with it in any case. If Theo is playing CF its because Wenger is playing him there but he doesn't have to.

Theo hasn't made a career out of missing easy chances and it is hard to iron out the wastefulness if you're in and out of the team. Adebayor made a name for himself missing easy chances before he scored 25 for us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Wright said no such thing about movement from wide positions being better. :lol: What were you watching? He showed an example of bad movement where he didn't run to the back post for Bellerin's cross and said he has to learn that. Next he said he made a fantastic run but blamed Ozil for passing to Ramsey. Showed another good run from the centre where he was in on goal but should have shot with his right foot.

Wright was critical and fair. Said he believes Walcott has the tools to play there but needs a run of games to get clinical. Praised his goal for the touch and finish.

We can try Bif up front but he doesn't get the chances on goal. It's rare to see Bif get chances where he can score a hat trick. Very rare and he'd have never scored that first goal.

---

Yes that's how I remembered what he said and noted that particular point too. Frankly, I thought his movement was superb, especially his timing of coming back on side shortly before making a run into the space.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

If you ask me where I do I want to play, I'd say centre mid. If you ask me where my best position is, I'd say in goal/CB. The preference to a position never really leaves a professional, they just get on with it in any case. If Theo is playing CF its because Wenger is playing him there but he doesn't have to.

Theo hasn't made a career out of missing easy chances and it is hard to iron out the wastefulness if you're in and out of the team. Adebayor made a name for himself missing easy chances before he scored 25 for us.



Yes that's how I remembered what he said and noted that particular point too. Frankly, I thought his movement was superb, especially his timing of coming back on side shortly before making a run into the space.

---

I like what Wright had to say and if Theo wants any tips on how to sharpen his game, he should put in a call to Ian and study some of his tapes. But I don't think this is a major problem for Theo. Once he warms up and gets confident the goals just start to flow. I'd worry more if he wasn't getting any chances at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Underestimate that first touch and finish if you want to. The touch was sublime and set himself up perfectly to take the defender out of the equation and line up a perfect shot. If that had been a Song passing the ball to RVP, people would be creaming themselves over the finish and downplaying the ball from Song. I've seen this before. I'm not taking anything away from any of the players. A beauty of a pass from Ozil but the first touch was important as well.

This whole concept of a striker holding the ball up and bringing others into play is what facilitates tippy tappy play in the first place. It's dragging players like Santi further forward, playing a higher line with the defence and leaves us vulnerable to a counter attack. What you describe is exactly why we have games where we require 500 passes to get into the opponents box. It's what we've been doing for years and we haven't been successful at it with Giroud.

---

I agree whole heartedly!

I tend to agree with Wenger on his theory on missing the type of chances we have been recently. It is less to do with your general finishing ability than it is your ability to just be calm in the situation. As we all recognised, Theo scored the most difficult chance of the game with some orc monster chasing him and breathing down his neck. That calmness in front of goal will simply improve with games, familiarity of recently being in simillar situations and having the trust of the manager.

Whilst we have the options we have I don't think the argument for Giroud over Theo at CF....is particularly overwhelming. The only difference is, we've seen Giroud get a run of games there, but we haven't seen Theo get a run despite being here far longer. If the club decides to stop sitting on the cash and sign a world class CF, then by all means, plays him ahead of Theo and see how HE does...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Underestimate that first touch and finish if you want to. The touch was sublime and set himself up perfectly to take the defender out of the equation and line up a perfect shot. If that had been a Song passing the ball to RVP, people would be creaming themselves over the finish and downplaying the ball from Song. I've seen this before. I'm not taking anything away from any of the players. A beauty of a pass from Ozil but the first touch was important as well.

This whole concept of a striker holding the ball up and bringing others into play is what facilitates tippy tappy play in the first place. It's dragging players like Santi further forward, playing a higher line with the defence and leaves us vulnerable to a counter attack. What you describe is exactly why we have games where we require 500 passes to get into the opponents box. It's what we've been doing for years and we haven't been successful at it with Giroud.

---

Except that's not what I described. The idea is you can't solely lump the ball to Theo, you have to have a mixed attack and Bif can provide that. Corners (if we could learn how to take them), crosses (if we could learn how to provide them), these aren't for Theo. And I don't underestimate his touch and finish yesterday, but I do understand he'll do that 1 in 5 at best and the rest he'll fuck up. A truly top striker is a 1 in 2 player. The Cazorla thing has little to do with it, that's another one of Wenger's crackpot plans that is supposedly designed to keep possession in the opposition half and I guess it does achieve that with the one downside being Coquelin often has to be in two places at once.

It's all a bit confusing. You look at managers like Wenger and van Gaal with all their experience and you think surely they know what they are doing. But then you see Ramsey on the right and Fellaini playing as a central striker and you realise actually, no, they don't. Hard as it is to believe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Wenger uses that right wing as some sort of throw away experimental position. He always has. Ljunberg was an attacking midifleder. Played more like a number 10 for Sweden but we play him on that right wing. Wiltord was a striker, turns him into a right winger. Eboue got games there. Walcott gets played there. Ox gets played there. I don't understand what Ramsey will learn from playing there. If he's a central midfielder, what experience is that adding to his game?
This is what I've been saying for the past few weeks and why we need to tear up this team once Wenger leaves along with this brand of frustrating football. Speed isn't enough to compensate for lack of understanding of a particular role, which is why shoving Ox, Theo and Wellbeck out onto the wing will only bring limited success. Especially when every single player we play wide wants to play centrally and when they are on the pitch that is exactly what they do. We got away with it when Wiltord and Freddie were put there because they were smart players, surrounded by others who were playing in their right position. They worked as a unit, together. This current lot - bar Alexis - are useless in comparison and just being pacey doesn't cut it, which is why we need at least one player who understands that wide role properly.
If Ox will play as a central midfielder in the future, what's the point of playing him on the wing? What's it adding? It's the same for Walcott. He was supposed to be developed into a striker and there is this huge question mark over Walcott's ability to play there so I don't know why Wenger does it other than just to fudge his best players on to the pitch all at once.

---

This is what I've been saying for the past few weeks and why we need to tear up this team once Wenger leaves along with this brand of frustrating football. Speed isn't enough to compensate for lack of understanding of a particular role, which is why shoving Ox, Theo and Wellbeck out onto the wing will only bring limited success. Especially when every single player we play wide wants to play centrally and when they are on the pitch that is exactly what they do. We got away with it when Wiltord and Freddie were put there because they were smart players, surrounded by others who were playing in their right position. They worked as a unit, together. This current lot - bar Alexis - are useless in comparison and just being pacey doesn't cut it, which is why we need at least one player who understands that wide role properly.

If we beat the chavs they are 15 points behind!!!! In September!! Lord of mercy! What more incentive could we need!

All we need then is to get Flamini to put Aguero out for the season when we play City, Flamini isn't going to get a game otherwise anyway and he's off next summer......then we might fluke the league.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Except that's not what I described. The idea is you can't solely lump the ball to Theo, you have to have a mixed attack and Bif can provide that. Corners (if we could learn how to take them), crosses (if we could learn how to provide them), these aren't for Theo. And I don't underestimate his touch and finish yesterday, but I do understand he'll do that 1 in 5 at best and the rest he'll fuck up. A truly top striker is a 1 in 2 player. The Cazorla thing has little to do with it, that's another one of Wenger's crackpot plans that is supposedly designed to keep possession in the opposition half and I guess it does achieve that with the one downside being Coquelin often has to be in two places at once.

It's all a bit confusing. You look at managers like Wenger and van Gaal with all their experience and you think surely they know what they are doing. But then you see Ramsey on the right and Fellaini playing as a central striker and you realise actually, no, they don't. Hard as it is to believe.

---

Your generalising with the amount of chances Theo needs to score. It's not the case with every game as seen by the West Brom hat trick game but that's easy to forget. Same goes for the Newcastle hat trick.

I don't know what your envision for Giroud but he's just off for at the moment. You saw the sitter he missed and he's not the type of striker that gets a lot of chances. It's not as if the West Ham game didn't happen. We had Oxford on the right with Ramsey in the middle but lost the game some how. I'm in no rush to see him back into the team because it's the games where we create nothing with all the possession in the world that bothers me most.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

If we beat the chavs they are 15 points behind!!!! In September!! Lord of mercy! What more incentive could we need!

All we need then is to get Flamini to put Aguero out for the season when we play City, Flamini isn't going to get a game otherwise anyway and he's off next summer......then we might fluke the league.

---

A draw would be a great result too, as long as we don't lose next week that will pretty much end their season or any hope of a proper title challenge IMO.

I have a nasty feeling they are going to turn us over though, we are the perfect team to play to kick start anyone's season!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Wrighty made a few good observations on MOTD last night. He showed how Walcott's movement in the centre is almost non-existent and how he only really sparks when he's coming from the wing and cutting in. Walcott is so obviously more effective out there, wonder why he's so determined to play centrally when he's not good at it? Theo wants a run of games so he can establish himself centrally - now many goals will it cost us to give him that run? He has to play wide and Bif has to play centrally. The real problem is Wenger's refusal to choose 2 from Ozil, Cazorla and Ramsey. He's determined to play all 3 all the time no matter the opponent.

---

How many games did it take Henry , Adebayor , RVP , Anelka ..etc to establish themselves as effective centre forwards for Arsenal ? Didn't i Wenger got bashed for giving them that opportunity ?
Walcott is a CF who had been wasted on flanks for quite long . It would surely take him some time to recover his boots . I would suggest we gave him at least half a season of a good run before making any judgment .

Perhaps....but like I am Invisible says.....if we we're choosing a time to play them, it would probably be now. In 2 months time they might have completely turned it around for all we know...?

In all honesty after Matic scored one back yesterday, I didn't think they were that bad, but clearly several of their key players aren't on top of their game and Everton were really good.

A draw away to Chelsea is perfectly acceptable but when you lose to West Ham at home, who I personally maintain are nothing special, you need to start nicking a few points from games you're less expected to take them from.......that is of course, IF you're talking about shaping up to win the league.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alpha

How many games did it take Henry , Adebayor , RVP , Anelka ..etc to establish themselves as effective centre forwards for Arsenal ? Didn't i Wenger got bashed for giving them that opportunity ?
Walcott is a CF who had been wasted on flanks for quite long . It would surely take him some time to recover his boots . I would suggest we gave him at least half a season of a good run before making any judgment .

---

Well the why hasn't Wenger done that? When did RvC leave? Why is Giroud even here? Monsieur Hapless could have made all this happen a long time ago. Why do we have to sacrifice another season while Theo find his boots? But okay, I'm game, considering Monsieur I Know Best But Still Don't Get Results has failed to sign the striker we've needed for how long now? Might as well be Theo I suppose, if we're still experimenting at the top level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Well the why hasn't Wenger done that? When did RvC leave? Why is Giroud even here? Monsieur Hapless could have made all this happen a long time ago. Why do we have to sacrifice another season while Theo find his boots? But okay, I'm game, considering Monsieur I Know Best But Still Don't Get Results has failed to sign the striker we've needed for how long now? Might as well be Theo I suppose, if we're still experimenting at the top level.

---

Well , I got the point but if you go down memory lane , you will remember this has always been the way Arsene does his things at Arsenal . I don't remember the last time he signed a ready made world class striker .He always made them from nobody's .
The last of them was RVP . when Ade left , I remember Van Persie Flopping against Fulham and getting done by Sheffield united defenders in the following game . Everyone : Media , fans , pundits questioned Wenger " silly decision" not to buy a striker instead of wasting time with RVP .
Not long after that , when RVP started performing , the same people were praising Wenger for finding a "world class " striker in RVP .
We won back to back FA Cup without that "world class " striker .I believe if we would have to win something more than just a FA Cup , it would be down to the teamwork rather than just a striker .
By the way , before RVP left he was one of the best strikers around and we failed to win even a Carling cup . Isn't it that ironic ?

I have to admit, I had serious doubts about RVP as striker. Besides the injury problems he made the wrong runs, was very selfish in his play and just wasn't aware of his surroundings. But then all that changed. Morphed into a beast of a striker. Banging them in with his left foot, right foot, headers, poachers, screamers.... I miss that guy! Why the heck couldn't we have told him the sponsorship deals were due the following season?

Goes to show we weren't the only ones sick of hearing 'next season will be better'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alpha

Well , I got the point but if you go down memory lane , you will remember this has always been the way Arsene does his things at Arsenal . I don't remember the last time he signed a ready made world class striker .He always made them from nobody's .
The last of them was RVP . when Ade left , I remember Van Persie Flopping against Fulham and getting done by Sheffield united defenders in the following game . Everyone : Media , fans , pundits questioned Wenger " silly decision" not to buy a striker instead of wasting time with RVP .
Not long after that , when RVP started performing , the same people were praising Wenger for finding a "world class " striker in RVP .
We won back to back FA Cup without that "world class " striker .I believe if we would have to win something more than just a FA Cup , it would be down to the teamwork rather than just a striker .
By the way , before RVP left he was one of the best strikers around and we failed to win even a Carling cup . Isn't it that ironic ?

---

What you are saying is all true, I don't disagree with any of it. Which is why Wenger has to go. We've had his decade of experimentation and make do and mend and even though he's pulled off some excellent transformations, can't deny it, we need to get on with the business of competing for titles now. We don't have another decade for him to play his games. And it's not just the striker role, it's every crucial position on the pitch. His experiments with keepers, his outrageous patch-up jobs in the centre of defence, his round pegs in square holes in the middle, his banishment of players to the wings. It's all interesting as a theoretical experiment but in the end it has resulted on us being off the pace every season. Even if we sacrifice this season for Theo, we still need that midfielder. When does that happen, the season after? How many more seasons until we get the balanced team that can challenge?

Arsenal isn't Wenger's pet project, or at least it shouldn't be. Let's get a proper manager now and get on with the business of challenging for the top spot. That's what this stadium and the sponsorship deals and all the wrangling in the boardroom was supposed to achieve, so let's do that.

Completely off topic but I totally missed Draxler signing for Wolfsburg! Undisclosed fee....typical.

I think in the absence of finding the solution up top, Wenger might have signed Kondogbia who can play CB as well as DM or Vidal. Might as well have strengthened another area

Wenger won't stay another decade NQ...especially if he doesn't win anything too....

Theo has impressed me tbf, his movement is really good. I'm not too worried about his finishing which will pick up when he builds up a bit of confidence.

But the best strikers can play with their back to goal AND behind the defence. Both Theo and Giroud can only do one or the other and that's one of the reasons neither will ever reach that level. The goals will come, especially in open games like Stoke and Villa, but we haven't seen him against a decent, organised team that sit back a bit deeper. He was completely ineffective against Chelsea in the community shield and I have a feeling we'll be seeing more games like that.

Chelsea have conceded the most goals this season.....just saying....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

Chelsea have conceded the most goals this season.....just saying....

---

We've created the most chances in the BLitW and have goal difference of +2...just saying...

We're 3rd...just saying...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

We're 3rd...just saying...

---

We're actually 4th

So we are :lol:
But I don't think Leicester are going to worry us long term, do you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

We're 3rd...just saying...

---

It's too early to say where we are in the table.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

It's too early to say where we are in the table.

---

4th, job done time to kick back and reeeeeeelax :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

It's too early to say where we are in the table.

---

I agree. But if people can wail and gnash their teeth after a loss on the first day then they should stop doing so after a decent few results and a good performance on Saturday

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

I agree. But if people can wail and gnash their teeth after a loss on the first day then they should stop doing so after a decent few results and a good performance on Saturday

---

Knock it off. You're just dragging up old stuff. I can't see many really going overboard after this result.

No-one should go overboard after this result, but they shouldn't have after the first game - and plenty did. That's my point.
I said the table only takes shape later in the season and was roundly criticised for it despite the fact it's clearly true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

No-one should go overboard after this result, but they shouldn't have after the first game - and plenty did. That's my point.
I said the table only takes shape later in the season and was roundly criticised for it despite the fact it's clearly true.

---

Nobody was going overboard then either. We shouldn't be losing our opening game at home.