QED :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
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QED :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I'm prepared to wait until the end of the season and remind you of what you said when the transfer window slammed shut
That if we fail to challenge for the title Wenger should be sacked.
I know what I said :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
And still I get this bullshit about defending Wenger no matter what and :blah:
Obviously by "challenge" I mean finish top 4
:run:
The multiple-PL winning, CL winning, hugely experienced Cech needed a mental rest? Somebody needs a mental check-up.Quote:
'We were a bit unlucky,' said Wenger. 'The first goal is offside and, after, the sending off is very harsh.
'Yes, he was rash. The first yellow is Giroud’s fault because he protested, even if it was not a foul against him. He should not have responded to the referee.
'The second, he is unlucky to touch the guy. I don’t understand the referee. It was accidental completely. It was not a second yellow. It has to be on purpose, a foul on purpose. He should have given many yellows tonight.'
'When you don’t win the game have to look at yourself and think you haven’t got it right, I don’t believe the players who came in had a bad game but it didn’t work, it didn’t work.
'Ospina is a very good goalkeeper and he showed that again. Petr Cech not having played a full season (last season) I tried to give him some rest mentally. It is the same for goalkeepers as the outfield players.
'We were a bit unlucky and we lacked cohesion in some situations. I have to analyse that. We have to look at ourselves. The second goal kills our game. On the corner we were guilty of not defending well, but we had a lot of ball even when it was 10 against 11.
'They defended well, I believe they stopped us in situations without being punished, counter-attacks where we had to play 10 against 11 in one half, very strong situations.
'We were not at our best but nor was the referee.'
'Mathematically, we can qualify without any problem, if we produce the performances we want at home. Overall, we had problems to start in every competition this season.
'We had problems in the Premier League and tonight in the Champions League but we can put that right. It is the first game, let’s see where we stand after six games. Then we can draw conclusions.'
:haha: :haha: :haha:Quote:
It is the first game, let’s see where we stand after six games. Then we can draw conclusions.
:haha:
I'm sorry but actually I think the team selection was good, we can't have it both ways the thing that frustrates me most about Wenger is beasting his players and not rotating.
Arteta is not good enough for Arsenal, neither is Ospina and the old git made no attempt to strengthen his squad so maybe it might give him occasion to reconsider his folly.
Also do any of us have any illusion of winning the Champions League?.....the league is unlikely but it's a damn sight more of a realistic prospect and I'd rather lose a game like this and have a fully fit and rested first XI against Chelsea.
Team selection - all those changes? That's not rotation, it's complacency. Leaving Ramsey and Bellerin at home, that's rotation. Replacing the defence and dropping your most effective player in the first game of a major tournament - that's incompetence. Nobody is asking for extreme swings between running the players into the ground and replacing half the team. A little bit if tactical savvy coupled with the sensible rotation of quality players is what we need. Wenger has no savvy in this competition and he keeps proving it years after year, and he won't buy the players that would provide the depth and opportunity for effective rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
It would be easier to get knocked out of the CL early so we can focus on qualifying for next year's CL.
This is Dynamo Zagreb we shouldn't have to worry about the team we put out against them, this is not West Ham complacency, because half the premier league teams are better than the dross that qualifies for that competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Plus if half these players weren't strangers borne out of Wenger previously not rotating it wouldn't have been an issue.
It was a shame to see Ramsey left at home, means that he will play against Chelsea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
I disagree with you my friend. This was not a case of rotation in any sensible sense. It was a massive gamble based on an arrogant assumption that we could effectively experiment against a European 'minnow'. It is obvious folly making 6 changes - and more importantly dropping 4 of what passes for the first team line up these days. The gamble was made worse by the lack of playing time of the players he brought in. Whatever the merits of those brought in last night, it was folly to disrupt the team and bring in so many rusty players in a CL game. This was not the Carling Cup, FFS. Wenger's pre-match observation that we lost our first CL group match last year and still qualified tells you all you need to know about how he approached this game.
I'd even say he was misguided in the light of Saturday's match against Chelsea. We are at the beginning of the season, not two thirds through where players are out on their feet. For me, our 'first team' needs more, rather than less playing time to start functioning as more than a disparate group of players, and last night could have provided that.
Ironically given the criticism, one of the players I would have rested ahead of the weekend was Coquelin. But to think that Arteta - coming back from a year without any football - could simply slot into the hole he left without the likes of Ramsey (or even Flamini?) alongside him to shore things up was to my mind stupid. their first goal - with Zagreb carving through our midfield at will - was eloquent testimiony to this.
I dunno, a midfield duo of Arteta and Caz lacks balance IMO. I've never rated Arteta and Caz as a duo in CM, neither of them can run or tackle. We were getting torn apart on the counter yesterday even in the first half when we had 11 men, Arteta and Caz weren't soley responsible but whenever either of them gave the ball away or had to track their runners we were under massive pressure as neither of them are mobile enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
It was naive of Wenger to pair them and clearly showed he hadn't done his homework regarding the opposition.
For me it's like Wenger just throws players together and hopes it will work. He doesn't manage the squad correctly and as already stated by NQ, part of the wider problem is the lack of options we have in the squad regarding specific roles. Squad management will be Wenger's undoing this season and it's part of the reason why he rarely makes changes because outside of his preferred XI which is unbalanced as it is he just has a collection of squad players who don't really fill specific roles in the team.
It was too much rotation and it was just to keep the players sidelined happy. It would have made more sense to give Sanchez and Ozil a break. Sanchez especially because he’s had a very long run and been thrust back into action. But the keeper, Monreal, Bellerin and Coquelin are fresh. We’re coming off an International break and they didn’t feature in the games. But either way, we should have had enough to win the game. But at the same time, I’m not writing them off because they’re strong at home and have a long unbeaten record. It boils down to motivation because there is no way the players selected should have put out such a tame performance considering their fighting for their places. So I agree with you on that part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
I agree, we'll definitely qualify. We have to qualify to gloriously fail in the next round. But you know, maybe if we pick up a striker and an authoritative midfielder in the 2016 transfer window we can really compete in this competition when we finish 3rd or 4th in the PL this season and qualify for it. We couldn't do that this summer because it was impossible. But maybe it will be possible next summer. Or the summer after.
Oxlade-Chamberlain is not a good footballer. I wish we offered him to Liverpool this summer for Sterling.
It must have been frustrating for Ozil last night,m every time he picked the ball up and looked up, there was a static statue wearing a number 12 shirt. The guy makes no runs, has no movement or clever turns. He can be sp shite at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Big misconception about Giroud holding the ball up. We looked a lot better with 10 men to be honest. Wenger should have started with Theo up front. He needs to grow in confidence up front. Luckily he scored last night so he can go into the Chelsea game feeling a little more confident. Giroud’s confidence must be shot to shit right now. Wenger needs to send him away on holiday for a week or so.
Just unlucky says Arsene
Wow, I know GW is full of shit when we lose but ffs there's no need for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
I don't think you understand peoples' beef, Letters. There's a saying in football (and elsewhere) that its a results business, and to a certain extent, this is true. Football is a business, and there is a direct correlation between league (CL) position and income. Even from a fans' point of view, I get that if you win silverware, noone cares much about performances. But without trophies - of course people are entitled to, and will assess a team's performance - more importantly a team's progression.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
That is what I see most Gooners disillusioned about. We may have won two FA Cups, and I was one of those both last season and the one before who hoped against hope that this would provide a mental springboard to give our team the impetus to progress. But it hasn't. Was winning the cups really indicative of progression? Without other evidence I would argue not. We were fortunate in both years by key competitors being knocked out, and (Liverpool in 2014 being perhaps the only exception) we did nothing in getting to the final that vastly exceeded where we should have been as a team.
And the reason why so many feel justified in making judgments so early in the season is that we have seen it all before. Promising players stagnating or going backwards; tactical naivety; lack of investment in needed players; even the excitement of 'world class' players being brought in in recent times who either disappoint/are not used effectively (Ozil) or perform but make little substantive difference to Arsenal's level because the rest of the team fail to make progress (Sanchez). This is emphatically not WUMming; its not reactionary and its not short-sighted. It is a logical conclusion to observations about Wenger's teams going back YEARS. Right thinking Gooners are not plastic fans craving silverware, they may even be nervous about what happens after Wenger. But while you are entitled to your view that we should cut the manager more slack, it is patently obvious that this team is simply not progressing, and ultimately there can only be one person to blame for this.
Yeah totally agree. Ox is just raw. He'll be inconsistent. He's only 21.Quote:
Originally Posted by PGFC
I think you make a good point (highlighted). While you could make a case for any single player coming in last night if they were tested and match fit, giving the likes of Debuchy; Arteta and Ospina a CL match when they have played so litttle in recent times smacked of the manager trying to mollify players' feelings than giving us the best chance of winning the match.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Yes - posts like the original one don't help. But the Ox is not being helped to progress. Either he is not being taken to task for his abject failure to track back, or (and I suspect that this is nearer to the truth) he is not being coached in how to conserve his energy and work more efficiently going forwards - with the result that he does not have the energy to do the defensive job that all outfield players should do when not in possession.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
:haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
Yeah, it's that feeling of the players being hung out to dry. Theo's been accused of the same and I remember Arshavin being asked to perform miracles on his aging legs. Still no idea why we never played him as a number 10 like we do for Ozil instead of trying to get something out of him that he'd never achieve after passing his prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
Good point about conserving energy as well. Henry would do it all the time. It's down to the manager to sort this out because Ox is young and raw. We have to guide him right.
http://www.skysports.com/football/ne...-dinamo-zagreb
What does 'committed' mean? How did we expect them to turn up?Quote:
"They were committed, they defended well and sometimes I felt that they stopped us from gaining an advantage without being punished by the referee, especially on counter-attacks where we had to play 10 against 11 in one half. We were not at our best but neither was the referee tonight."
In the end it was the ref's fault, that's all we really need to focus on. Although in some ways, maybe we shouldn't judge the ref until the end of the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Zagreb managers telling everyone what they already know:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...y-Croatia.html
Cheeky bastard called us predictable, for some reason. Reckons he knew how we were going to play. Lucky guess.
We were 'unlucky'.
At £8m a year, analysis like that is a bargain.
What team isn't committed in the CL?
Oh right, only us. <_<
Not what everyone already just most people, at least he calling us out for what we are, overrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Damn! He didn't spare any punches and it's downright embarrassing. I don't know why Wenger isn't embarrassed by this. Maybe the press need to stop sparing him with the soft questions and really dig into claims such as 'being unlucky' and the other team being 'committed'. Press him on it and find out if his brain is really working back there. Is he just being coy or is he an absolute fraud. These journalist are bloody lazy. They don't ask the right questions and they regurgitate soundbites from ex players, pundits and what's written on social media.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
After listening to an old scratchy record play a couple of times. Most people can easily predict where its going to skip and jump. every one that is except the owner of the record, who insists that THIS time it will play flawlessly. All he has done however is put a little spit and burnished it with his elbow.
I love the CL but usually enjoy it only about the QF stage, when we are no longer in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PGFC
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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Oxlade-Chamberlain is 22 and isnt getting better. He is the exact same player he was when he arrived. He doesnt defend and his mess ups lead to goals for the opponents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin
He isnt good enough for Arsenal. Its not inconsistency when you see the same thing over and over. He isnt a good enough dribbler, passer, finisher, makes bad decisions, and isnt tactically up to it in attack and defense. What does Oxlade-Chamberlain do that is outstanding? At least Theo is fast and can finish.
If we didnt try for Sterling because we have Oxlade-Chamberlain, then we have err'd massively.
Ah pipe down. Just the other week you were saying Theo wasn't good enough. Coquelin wasn't good enough and we need a clone of Arteta. :haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
Ox is young and his faults are down to the manager.
We didn't go for Sterling because City were in for him and Wenger doesn't get involved with bidding wars. He'd never the pay the sort of money City paid.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I said Theo wasnt good enough to be a central striker. Still not convinced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I said we can do better than Coquelin and Im still not convinced. (he is getting better, and I am happy for that)
Oxlade-Chamberlain's faults are down to him not being good enough for Arsenal and Wenger giving him freedom to mess up on top of that. Oxlade-Chamberlain isnt good enough for Arsenal and we have seen this consistently.
It was rumored Sterling wanted to go back to London. Who knows what would have happened if we made the same bid for him, tbf. I think we had a chance, if the rumors were true.
Tell him to get behind the players and stop wishing for some miracle striker to drop down from heaven. Pay up and shut up! But thank you for taking an interest in our affairs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Like those Benzema rumours? Or the Draxler rumours a season ago? We weren't in for Sterling and Ox wasn't the man holding him back. Ox isn't even a first team regular.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
I mean, shit...what's with the short memory Arsenal fans? He needs to work on his defence but he's scored a couple of important goals for us already. Let him live.
the ones that said we were interested in him? What is your short term memory like if you are now dismissing that? (notice I am not commenting on the "benzema is arriving on Sunday" rumors, just that we were really interested in him)Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
yeah, you never answered my question. What does he do outstanding? What trait does he have that shows he can be a player at a high level?Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Are you really paying attention to media speculation regarding Sterling? Seriously? And if any of it were true, you really believe Wenger didn't sign him because of Ox? A player that isn't a first team option?Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
Is Ox outstanding at anything? No. But you know what? He's 22. He's still developing and hasn't played much first team football because of injury. What 22 year old do we have in this squad that's outstanding at anything?
I'm not in this camp yet but I see where you are coming from. Ox is as responsible for his game as his manager, just like Theo and Ramsey. Players need guidance but they also have to take responsibility and learn wherever they can. It's injury record doesn't help him and as it stands if he left, I wouldn't lose sleep over it because under the current manager, he is only ever going to improve so much. Whether he'll gain those much needed improvements to his game elsewhere I don't know but it's too early to make a final call on him - at least he's making it onto the pitch more than Wilshere.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84