And I don't think there really is much of a 'Wenger Brigade' these days.
I certainly don't know anyone who still thinks he's the right man.
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And I don't think there really is much of a 'Wenger Brigade' these days.
I certainly don't know anyone who still thinks he's the right man.
I think Campbell deserves a run in the squad on the right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
Yes - and I agree that the banner displayed after the game was well timed as it showed that the disenchantment of the manager runs deeper than a win or a loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
The mini unbeaten run has started, soon enough things will be back to normal and Wenger will be hailing our mental strength and team spirit.
Surprised Wright has had a pop at the fan with the banner considering his stance on Wenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
Exactly, good win but we should have won it at 1st time of asking, there will always be a few who will think this is the start of something big though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Campbell has performed really well this season when called upon, I think he's earning his place, works hard, makes things happen and has talent a good combination.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
He works hard on defence and has end product. I think he's pulled off some of the best assists this season. One criticism is he plays in patches and can have quiet moments but with more game time that could change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Wenger again almost cocky about his job, he knows his position well:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35760378Quote:
Against Hull, some Gunners fans held up a banner reading "Arsene, thanks for the memories but it's time to say goodbye".
Wenger said: "There's nothing disappointing for me, I do my job. Look at the history of the club and you will see that I have nothing to be scared of."
Is he a 'Wenger Out'? Generally, it does frustrate me the way many people within the game seem to be so precious about Wenger (even while often critisising the flaky nature of his teams). In this respect, its astonishing how Wenger has managed to create this 'hero' cult using a combination of early success, longevity and CL qualification. For me, last night's banner was indicative of the majority of Gooners' attitude - not OTT disrespectful, but simply expressing a situation that has become increasingly apparent - that the manager does not have what it takes to move our club forward. The Stoke station incident is the only example of real disrespect that I can recall - yet many pundits and writers seem to feel that Wenger should be immune from candid criticism of what has ultimately been underperformance for a manager of his stature for a number of years - and something of a shambles this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
And that's it in a nutshell. Noone is denying his past success or his efforts to leave the club on a solid footing, but he can and should be judged on the present, not the past and I'm sick of Wenger taking the view that history is an excuse for his present failings. Messianistic or what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Letters does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Reynholm
Letters :haha:
(thought I'd save someone else the bother, there).
What I don't understand is why everything has to be so extreme on here. Is that a GW thing or an internet thing?
Is it not perfectly valid to think that:
Wenger, overall, did pretty well to keep us in the top 4 in the early days of the stadium move with the billionaires running amok.
But he should have won a couple of trophies in that era and probably should have been sacked.
The new money did start a new policy in the transfer window (someone on here said, although I haven't checked, that our net spend over the last 3 seasons is the 3rd highest in the league. It certainly has been quite high and compare and contrast with the 3 years before that when we actually made a net profit) and we started signing players of a level who should push us on.
The Cup win was a welcome relief and got the 'no trophies' monkey off our back. We seemed well placed to push on and Sanchez was another top signing.
Last year was a disappointment, Wenger probably should have been sacked for the failure to compete for the title but the Cup retention mitigated somewhat and arguably bought him one last try.
Last summer's transfer dealings were disappointing, Cech was a great signing but we needed more up front and it was a risk relying on Walcott or goals from midfield (although, in theory, there should be plenty from midfield)
This season I was happy to support Wenger while we were in the title race, I've said all along that if we don't properly challenge then he should be sacked. The recent run has probably put us too far behind and, worse, at the expense of Leicester and Spurs. So yeah, he should be sacked. But that doesn't mean he's "clueless" or "incompetent" or "a c***" or all the other things people throw at him.
The flaws he has are the ones he has always had. Not for the last 10 years, for the last 20. He had them when we were successful but the team was so good they didn't matter. But he has his strengths too, those strengths were why that team was so good although some of those strengths - the training and fitness methods, the knowledge of the European game - have been nullified by a combination of other clubs catching up, arguably overtaking us, and some clubs now being able to throw as much money around as they like till they achieve success.
We need someone who can push us on and it's increasingly clear that isn't Wenger. But tt seems it's not enough on here to want Wenger out. You have to believe he has no redeeming features, is a complete incompetent, you need to insult him. You have to believe that everything he says is stupid and wrong - even if you agree with it.
The slightest defence or thought that maybe he's not been so bad despite his flaws and you're "sucking his cock" and think he's flawless.
It's pathetic really.
He once said Arsenal fans were delusional for trusting in Wenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...d-8418133.html
He's said more and I think he is being hypocritical. I can see the media and usual pundits starting to round on vocal supporters even though they have been stoking the flames by questioning Wenger's record and failings. It's a dirty game and it only serves to split the fans so we have Ty's on one side and Claude on the other. The media vultures will paint us as victims and Wenger the villain but will soon reverse the roles. The guy with the banner will be in for a rough ride and really surprised at Wright. He of all people should understand the frustration after saying it doesn't seems as though the defeats hurt Wenger.
No problem with any of that. But you and I have discussed the reasons for the 'extremes' many times before (not that I am am an extremist anti Wengerite - I hope). It is down to one thing, and one thing only in my view - namely frustration. And in a perverse way, the extremes are bound up with a latent affection for the manager. Generally speaking (ie in the wider world), most Gooners have been incredibly patient over the past decade. they have recognised the sacrifices that have needed to be made because of the stadium project; they have endured the sales of our best players, and they have believed in the club's message that lean times were necessary in order to allow us to compete properly for honours. But not only has this not happened - but it has become increasingly apparent that Wenger is blind to his shortcomings. I think that fans' frustration is partly the result of us being able to see the benefits of the manager's tenure. We have talented players; and have competed at top 4 level in an era where mega money has come into the game - and it would be a fool who argued that this is not down to our manager.
But from this platform, it is Wenger's obvious failings that have prevented us from pushing on - even when the overall level of our squad has been improved with the addition of world class talent.
Its the hope that kills - and we have seen the potential in our team to do something special. As you say, the first recent FA Cup win was supposed to be a springboard. Yet if anything, we have gone backwards since, and the obvious reality that this is a team failing to live up to its potential because of a manager who will not address its obvious failings has over a long period of time now ground fans down into frustration and disillusionment. There is an oft mis-attributed quote that says madness is doing the same over and over and expecting things to change. Well this is where we seem to be as a club - and I while it may be unfair on an objective level to disregard the benefits that Wenger has brought us in criticising him now, it is understandable in what is an emotional relationship that fans have with the club they love.
Oh yes - the press is fickle as hell - and I think that there is a general feeling that we Gooners are spoilt and have a sense of entitlement, rather than recognising that as a whole we have been patient, and have seen our club gently decline from it's position at the top of the table, and are unhappy about this. So for example, they will point out our failure to succeed in the CL, despite being one of Europe's biggest clubs, with the highest ticket prices and gate receipts in the world, yet criticise fans for being disenchanted with the situation. :blink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
There's never any humility from the guy, in his eyes as he clearly illustrates he knows his job is safe regardless and he's almost smug about it, he knows he can get away with criticising fans with no comeback, you won't find another man earning that kind of money in such a comfortable, relatively pressureless environment.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
People hate Mourinho which I can understand why but at least he's up front about his feelings, Wenger just has sly digs and this cocksure attitude that's he's superior to everyone else and above them and regularly patronises fans, he's got a very poor manner about him, some humility wouldn't go amiss, as it is he's come across as arrogant and not very likeable.
I guess in the end he doesn't care what fans think though, he's happy as long as the owners think he's the best thing since sliced bread and keep paying his his salary every year, a cold character with no real passion for what matters in football, it's fans.
QED...
I don't think so, we know this to be true from his behaviour.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/...p-theo-walcottQuote:
Arsenal’s players held a crisis meeting called by Per Mertesacker, Petr Cech, Mikel Arteta and Tomas Rosicky before their FA Cup victory at Hull City on Tuesday night, in a bid to stave off the dire run of form that is threatening their season.
Before the 4-0 win against Hull in the fifth-round replay at the KC Stadium, Arsčne Wenger’s team had won only once in six games, a sequence stretching back to the defeat of Leicester City on Valentine’s Day.
It left the Gunners eight points behind the leaders, Leicester, and facing a 2-0 deficit to Barcelona ahead of the Champions League last-16 second leg at the Camp Nou next week.
Theo Walcott, who scored twice against Hull, along with Olivier Giroud, revealed that a core of senior players decided they should try to thrash out their problems ahead of the game.
“We are not going to lie,” he said. “We know as a unit it has been tough and we all had a good chat among us behind closed doors, without even any of the coaches or the manager knowing about anything and I think it is important that as a team we have got it in us. We just have to produce it more often.”
Walcott pointed to the 2-2 draw at Tottenham Hotspur on Saturday, in which Arsenal fell 2-1 behind to Mauricio Pochettino’s side having gone down to 10 men following the sending off of Francis Coquelin on 55 minutes. Alexis Sánchez’s 76th-minute equaliser secured a point at White Hart Lane and Walcott said: “You had a sense of the Tottenham game especially, when you go down to 10 men in a big game like that, the belief and the character was there.
“The never-give-up spirit was there as well. In the derby matches, they could be the matches that turn your season and we may have turned the corner maybe.”
Walcott outlined how the meeting was called. “We have quite a lot of experienced players in the dressing room,” the 26-year-old said. “It came from Cech, Mikel, Per and Tomas. We have four good old heads there. I’d like to keep what was said among ourselves but it was very important. We have had a reaction from it anyway.”
He said of Wenger: “He probably knows about it anyway – he’s got ears everywhere at the club. The manager respects the players’ privacy and what’s happening personally among us all. It was a meeting to express how everyone was feeling basically and it worked.”
Arsenal now host Watford in the sixth-round tie at the Emirates Stadium on Sunday. Wenger could be without Aaron Ramsey, who sustained a thigh problem against Hull, having come on for Mertesacker. While the latter’s head injury may not rule him out of Sunday, Wenger will await tests on Gabriel Paulista’s hamstring problem after he was also forced off during the match. Nacho Monreal, who replaced the Brazilian, was seen limping after the game and is a further doubt.
Walcott said: “The pitch was quite heavy but the injuries are probably the disappointing thing coming out of the game. But we can’t speculate until we know what the damage is. Injuries come in the game and that is one of those things.
“The most important thing was just a clean sheet. We have been conceding too many goals cheaply as a unit. We haven’t been scoring enough. It was a confidence boost to everyone that it was good.”
Arsenal have won the trophy for the past two seasons and want to become the first club to claim a hat-trick of triumphs since Blackburn Rovers, who achieved the feat between 1884 and 1886.
Walcott said: “We want to stay in this competition because it is massive for us. We want to make those history books and try and push on to Wembley and do it on the third occasion but we have got a big test against Watford first. Obviously we are looking too far ahead and the players don’t really like to do that.
“But as you get closer and closer, there is a sense of belief that we can do it and create history which would be a great achievement for everyone. But we all know what we want this year and we would swap it in a heartbeat without a doubt.
“The competition has been pretty good for us. People say we have had some kind draws but you can see in the cup competitions that anyone can beat anyone. You saw the first game against Hull and how they played against us [in a goalless draw]. It was there for the taking, to be honest, but luckily it paid off in the end.”
Don't believe any of your bullshit Theo - sorry. If this was a behind closed doors, manager didn't know about it, respect our privacy style meeting then why announce it at all? We had this meeting that worked! Can't say anything about it. Bullshit. As if players getting together to discuss why they are so shit is such a big deal. Shouldn't that always happen? Says a lot about that dressing room and the complacency that rules it. Theo, in the press where he does most of his work, boasting because they team did something they should be doing every week. Anyway, he's the most senior player there, so why does it take "old heads" to organise the basics. Get your arse in gear Theo, you lazy git. 9 games to win, nothing else will do. Do your talking on the pitch for a change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
The guy has been a nothing player for us for 10 years
Did not do anything whatsoever apart from the burst when his contract was running out.
Sign da ting!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
So don't lie - tell it like it is. It hasn't been 'tough' - its been poor and simply not good enough.Quote:
We are not going to lie,” he said. “We know as a unit it has been tough
This isn't the first time the players have had to gather themselves whilst Wenger has hid his head in the sand. Wasn't the same said after the Utd game? A team meeting on tactics without Wenger?Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I get the criticism of Walcott and the talking but he took his chances yesterday. It didn't take a handful of chances before netting. It's a start. Same goes for Giroud. I don't think we created many great chances but at least we put the ball in the back of the net for once.
When you have Wenger as coach in the press contradicting what Sanchez has said about us lacking in hunger and confidence when going out to play, making out as if we're just unlucky, the above statement makes sense. Not sure why Wenger doesn't tell the truth and no wonder why the players have to hold a secret meeting. After a loss and feeling dejected, nothing worse than having a coach that won't say anything of substance at half time or after the game to his players when we're down. A delusional statement about luck and bouncing back the next game is the last thing you want to hear and I can imagine that's all he tells his players. They certainly play like that's all he tells them.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
I agree - and have felt for a long time that Wenger's constant excuses and failure to call out shocking performances (notably Manure away recently) breeds complacency, and its complacency that's cost us more than anything else this season. That's why Alexis' comments that the team goes out thinking it's already 1-0 up resonated...Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Ian Wright was on Fletch and Sav last week and got asked 'Do you think Wenger is the right man to lead Arsenal in the future' and he couldn't answer it.
Guy needs to get his views sorted rather than pondering on which one benefits him more. He also smiled when Piers Morgan was taking shots at Wenger.
What is he playing at? It's ok to change your mind but considering the things he's said recently and in the past, it makes you wonder. Where is the integrity? I've seen it all if Merson comes out and starts berating vocal fans. Not a conspiracy theorist but it makes me wonder if brown paper bags have been exchanged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
Wouldn't rule it out tbh, or he's being offered some sort of job with the club down the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Piers Morgan just supported the banner and the guy who put it up
https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/stat...70261642616832
:bow:
It's all about the brown paper bags in the end. Not direct bribes but rather the things people will do for publicity, and publicity comes before the cash unless you are higher up the food chain. All Wright had to do was say he agreed with the right to speech but disagreed with what was being said. So simple and with the added benefit of being honest and agenda free. But those hits and clicks and headlines and tweets and all that shit, they don't go to the ones who stay quiet. Everyone is doing it, even Henry has stuck his integrity under the pillow to make a few quid more. The only guys in this with a bit of integrity are the ones who stuck the banner up. They considered their actions carefully beforehand, they have a point to make, they have made it in the right manner. That's why the Wengerites are so pissed, there's nothing easy to dismiss there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
It's very inconvenient to hold the same opinion as Morgan. It automatically suggests I'm a cunt. But the thing about the truth is there's no agenda so anyone can play. It's time for Wenger to leave. Who could possibly present a credible case to the contrary? Not even Wenger can present a case, beyond telling people to piss off and enjoy the two wins against Leicester.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
I still have time for Henry. There isn't anything I can point to where I know for certain he doesn't feel that way. But Ian Wright has jumped out the window with this one and I've got a lot of respect for Wright. You have his opinion on Wenger in print and camera so I just don't get where this has come from. He was one of the first to be critical of Wenger and many Arsenal fans were going at him. He may need to explain himself. I don't like seeing ex legends involved with this. Slowly breaking down the club piece by piece. Fans split, legends losing stock....I mean seriously. I hope this is Wenger's last season. Too many rifts being caused.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
The quotes I am reading from Wright, not sure what the issue is because it seems to me he is looking at it from a player's perspective, after a match, after a win. Not sure he even addresses whether he thinks Wenger should go or not directly.
Even so, the player's have little right to complain about or feel aggrieved about anything the fans say considering the shit that has been served up on the pitch this season. Wright is in a privileged position, earned but privileged nonetheless. He's on the inside looking out, it's the other way around for the fans. Plus he's a mug for getting involved at all. Does he really think he can win against fans that have nothing to lose? If you are going to live in a bubble then don't pop the bubble.Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
Wrighty has suggested Wenger should go before....he's just taken a back step and exercised a little more discretion lately but I am pretty unmoved by his or any other closely connected with the club individual's views.
He never gives an answer on it because he's sitting on the fence, waiting to see which option will benefit him moreQuote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
He got asked point blank on the Fletch/Sav show before the NLD and couldn't answer it
As you indicate, you're seeing it from a supporter's perspective, I'm not saying that isn't justified but the two would see it in different way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Maybe he's conflicted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
I've got time for Wright. He might be conflicted but it makes little sense going after a fan that's gone through the motions and has had enough of the same cycle like most of us. It's an obvious message to Wenger and he's not having a dig at the players so I don't get his beef. He sounds like he doesn't understand why the banner is up because he speaks of us still being in the title and that's irrelevant. It's not just about silverware and I think some misjudge how some fans feel. A good run of results or a trophies at the end of the season won't wipe the slate clean. If Wright doesn't understand that he should stay out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
He does understand it, of course he does. But like anyone defending Wenger he's wilfully blind. Everyone knows Wenger's faults by now, it's a fairly long list that has been discussed many times in many places by many people. "We are still in the title", is code for, "I'm ignoring that list".Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Yes, he's a beneficiary, we are donors. Wright is perfectly entitled to an opinion but does he have to lace that opinion with an insult? A bit of gratitude would go further and yet it seems to be the major beneficiaries who feel the gratitude should be coming in their direction. Saint Arsene, we thank you for the gifts you have bestowed. Hallowed be your name and fuck any cunt who says otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...