There is one thing a lot of people crave a lot more than being back in the CL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumble
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There is one thing a lot of people crave a lot more than being back in the CL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumble
I want us to win the Europa Cup and gain access to the CL. I want us to do well in the league as well but won't celebrate a Top 4 finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by dostoy
Says the man who always downplays statistics :whistle:Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
:run:
And during that period at least two games where we dropped points can pretty much be attributed to himQuote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
Frankly we were in good form in that time, and managed to get results inspite of him
No I don't expect a second choice goalkeeper to be world class but I do expect them to be competent and not a liability
He could have cost us the FA cup if not for us going up the other end and scoring in the final.
I simply cannot think of any keeper back up or otherwise that consummately makes the kind of fuck ups he does. Not even Almunia at his worse.
I'm not exaggerating when I say I cannot think of a worse keeper that has played as many games in goal for us as Ospina.
You can't be serious. But if that's your opinion, it is what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Almunia was at best an average keeper but he made far fewer overall mistakes.
I downplay it when people throw around statistics without context. The Ozil one with chances created is a perfect example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Ozil has created 15 chances but can anyone say he's having a good season or playing anywhere near to his potential?
Also, if Lacazette is the ideal man that should help Ozil shine and bag more assists, how many of the chances has he created for Lacazette?
Is that a fact? Prove it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
I think Ospina shares all the strengths and weaknesses Almunia had. They're very similar keepers.
Not a fan of either though, but in Ospina's case I'm not really bothered given he won't play in the league.
Your stat has little context too. A 'keeper can keep a clean sheet simply because we dominated the game and they came under little pressure or because the opposition's strikers were wasteful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
Or they can have a great game but be beaten by a shot that no 'keeper could be expected to save.
Like assist stats, clean sheets stats tell you something but they don't paint the whole picture.
Nah, this is a classic case of absence making the heart grow fonder. Almunia was absoutely dog shite for most his tenure at us apart from a brief spell (when the Almunia for England noise started).
Ospina has been decent for us and saved our bacon a few times but it's been tempered by a few high profile mistakes, notably against Olympiakos.
Also the goal against Chelsea in the cup final wasn't a GK mistake per say, more that he didn't have the GK quality to save it (a taller GK with stronger wrists like a De Gea, Courtois .. could have pushed Costa's shot just wide).
In the context of the argument and whether or not he's a decent 2nd string keeper, the wins, loses and clean sheet stats makes sense. I'm not arguing that he doesn't make mistakes or world class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
The chances created stat is ridiculous because you'll quote it even though you'd watched the game and seen we've looked flat creatively and created next to nothing.
:gp: Almunia was the worst.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico
The stats for a keeper indicate more about the general defence and the keeper is only a part of that.
It can be used on an individual player if averaged over a lot of games where the team is mostly the same but the player is not in all of the games. My favourite stat on this is van Nistelroy who was thought to be the great goal scorer for Manu. A journalist analysed the number of points per game during his stay at manu, looking at the average points when he played and when he did not. It turned out that manu averaged half a point per game more when he was not playing, even though he was manu's top scorer by a mile.
I presume the reason is perhaps that when he was there, the team plan was to funnel the feed to him for his tap-ins, so the real work was done by people like Ronaldo, Giggs and Beckham feeding him pin-point crosses onto the end of his boot. When he was not there, the other players contributed to the goals that won the points. So he looks like an over-rated goal scrounger taking the credit for the real work done by the rest of the team.
The media loved him though. He went through a goal drought at one point - no goals for about 8 games, I think. But in the match were he finally got on the score sheet again, he was standing on the 6 yard box facing the goal when Forlan blasted a 25 yard shot that went over his head and hit the crossbar, bounced down and hit RvN on the leg and went in. RvN could have known nothing about it as it was so fast. You could have stood my granny there and she would have been credited with the goal - and she has been dead for 50 years. But the commentator creamed his jeans and said ' a great goal by Nistelroy to get back into his scoring ways'. Tosser.
Almunia was an average keeper. Couldn't expect much out of him and was capable of the odd howlerQuote:
Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico
Ospina is definitely a better shot stopper than Almunia was. But I don't remember anywhere near the amount of glaring errors. Almunia had average distribution, his decision making was mixed and was an okish shot stopper (saved a few penalties for us).
I do remember goals we conceded that were Almunias fault, I don't remember the same volume as with Ospina
Spurs, Crystal Palace, QPR, Newcastle, Chelsea, Swansea, Man United, West Brom
Those are games in 2015 I remember him making a fluff that was either costly or could have been costly. That's far too often even for an average keeper.
And then there was the game against Olympiakos where even the stubborn Wenger had to change his mind about playing Ospina in goal for the champions league because he was so shit in that game.
Believe me when I say he's worse than Almunia it's not crying for the moon for Almunia he was terrible at times.
For me it's like comparing Fabien Barthez to Roy Carroll. Carroll was the epitome of average, but Ferguson just couldn't rely on Barthez simply because of the sheer volume of fuck ups.
Ospina is way better than Almunia ever was, c'mon now.
I'll never forgive Almunia for that Danny Rose goal. No idea what the fuck he was doing.
I don't think the stat makes much sense for the reasons I've outlined. A clean sheet doesn't tell you much about the 'keepers performance. As Coney said, the defence play a bigger part in whether we get a clean sheet or not, by all accounts Cech was excellent when we got humped by Liverpool, but for him it would have been a much bigger embarrassment. Assist scores are a bit more meaningful IMO. I take the point about different types of assists but overall I think things like that balance out a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
Overall I think He IS a decent 2nd string 'keeper, I just don't think that stat illustrates that for the reasons I've outlined.
The results of the the game, the clean sheets and wins indicate that he hasn't cost us as many games or points as Herb suggests. Again, key word here being decent. He's going to make mistakes but we get that in all areas of the pitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Also, I was pointing out that when he's had a long run in the team, we've only lost two games and drawn two. It doesn't paint the full picture but it's enough to show that he's not an absolute calamity that can't be trusted. I suspect like most players, it's hard to judge a player until he gets a full run in the team. At the time when we bought Cech, Ospina had a good run in the team and most weren't blown away by the Cech signing.
Anyway if you want to see why we're so tactically impotent check out these screen shots from Elliot:
https://twitter.com/YankeeGunner/sta...34091627888641
If Wenger really wanted to play three at back he needed to buy a CM or at least train one of Xhaka/Elneny/Ramsay to play in the role effectively. As it is, with the current setup we've pretty much got no central midfield and unless one of the CB goes on a run it's difficult for them to create openings.
IMO, 3 at the back was a placebo.
We were so bad last season that Wenger could have made a number of changes and it probably would have made a positive difference. What happened was what normally happens at the tail end of the season when we're on the brink of disaster - we suddenly found our balls.
Wenger has no clue. We used to see similar images when we'd have Ramsey and Wilshere in the middle with Arteta.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico
That's a bit like saying the unbeaten run proves that Lehmann was world classQuote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
Now Lehmann was clearly a better keeper than Almunia or Ospina
But world class? No hed flap at corners. Be a silly bollocks and he was responsible for taking the gloss off our title win at white hart lane by being a dick and felling Robbie Keane.
We had excellent defenders in front of Lehmann that season. But I literally don't think it would have been possible to go the whole season unbeaten with Ospina in goal. He is just too much of a liability.
Is he capable of making match winning saves in the way Almunia for instance was not? Yeah for sure. But just couldn't be trusted because of his propensity for errors. Last nights goal was brilliant but it showcased the amount of times his clearances won't pass the half way line and even more so end up at the feet of the opposition.
Total inconsistency, like he made an excellent save at his near post last night but then there will be times where he's just not watching play and is too slow to react to get across his goal when someone is ghosting in.
That isn't down to ring rustiness, that's down to being inconsistent, having poor concentration and having shocking judgement and instincts.
You say it's not a big problem because he's only a back up. But I don't want to be playing any game where we know at any time the goalkeeper could potentially lose you points or cost you at the very least a clean sheet. And who is he a back up to? Petr Cech who is not getting any younger and has at times had problems with injury.
Now do I think that's as big an issue as the central midfield problem No I don't. But as I repeat I've never before watched games for us where I've had such grave misgivings about what will happen in the game simply because of who is in goal like I do with David Ospina.
:doh: No, it would be like arguing that Lehman was a decent enough keeper to help us go unbeaten at that time and not such a huge liability that he'd cost us the title.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Again, as I said in your original post, decent was the key word. You're arguing as if people have said Ospina is World Class. As if I said he's world class. Is he less than decent?
No what I'm saying is saying that because we didn't drop as many points as we might have done during that period you have used as evidence that Ospina is decent. I think that's as spurious as saying going unbeaten in the league made Lehmann world class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
Lehmann is decent
Ospina is not
Lehmann made some ricks and his temprement was questionable
But as I say again the constant errors from Ospina whether he plays frequently, whether he plays sporadically are just far too frequent for him to be considered decent.
No you don't have to be completely error proof to be decent. You just have to be for the most part reliable. And when you have a keeper in goal when more often than not you get results in spite of him than because of him that's not reliable unless you are setting the bar incredibly low.
The dumb thing about your whole argument is that you're saying Sir Chesney should be playing over Ospina. I love Szczesny but he could cost us points and far from reliable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Every keeper can cost you points or make mistakesQuote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
Szczesny was an arrogant prick.
But again to ram the point home. Ospina fucks up far more often than he doesn't......the only difference is will he have an OK game where he only has a slight fuck up, or will it be on an industrial scale like against Spurs and Olympiakos in 2015.
Szczesny even at his worst I didn't become more wary simply as a result of him being on the team sheet.
In fact it's the most trepidation I feel at seeing an Arsenal player on the team sheet since Pascal Cygan. And Cygan wasn't even that shit, he was just far too slow and immobile for the premier league would have been fantastic in Italy.
What you two esteemed board members are arguing about is immaterial because our defence has made a world class keeper look like a chump from Day 1.
And our central midfield has left our defence exposed time and time again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall Quinn
The toe bone connected to the foot bone
Dem bones Dem bones Dem dry bones
Our manager deserves all the credit.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
FINALLY! Something we can all agree on
Agree with every word. Iwobi has stagnated after breaking into the first team at the end of the 15-16 season and hasn't actually improved any of his game. He can't even get a look in anymore and should be sent on loan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
No other manager would play him in a 2 man midfield, no way.
Well if rumours are to be believed then Mustafi pretty much told Wenger about this gaping issue in our midfield which led to us willing to offload him to Inter in the window with Johnny Evans lined up as his replacement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
As with plenty of other things, nothing's going to change until the old fart steps down.
I agree. We're talking about a 2nd string keeper here. It's the least of our worries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall Quinn
It's the story of almost every young player to come break into the first team under Wenger. Just look at Holding this year. Full of so much promise and now looks a complete mess. You can go as far back as Senderos and Djourou to see the same pattern. The promise quickly fades away.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
Iwobi has talent but he hasn't progressed and I doubt he will if he continues to play under Wenger.
Where did I read that Wenger is still picking his teams 2 weeks in advance based on tech estimates of fitness and fatigue? Somewhere during the transfer window, might have been Le Grove. Anyway, the bizarre nature of Wenger's team selections add weight to this theory. Though it doesn't explain him doubling down and playing replacements out of position. I don't think anyone can explain that madness.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
I can see the theory behind playing an attack minded and technical player in the role, but only if that player is as least somewhat experienced and has been getting game time so he can develop an understanding with his team mates. Of course that's not even possible because Wenger recycles all the players around the victim to make it at least 10 times more difficult. Then the fans get on Iwobi's back and a young prospect who has done very well, considering this is the top level, loses confidence and starts to go backwards.
It's obscene man management. If you want to destroy a player then that's how you do it. You end up with another Theo Walcott, a player that soared into the spotlight, got signed by Wenger and, after a few decent outings that relied on muscle memory, settled into a slow an steady stagnation.
Wenger ruins careers. He used to create them. Now he destroys them. Never mind Iwobi. Can you imagine any other manager handling Walcott so badly? Or Wilshere? Or even Ramsey? He ruined Coquelin too and created the ultimate journeyman. He's tried to destroy Alexis too, but the Chilean isn't having any of it. Wenger has met his match with that guy.
We have to get this fucking cock out of our club. It's completely ridiculous this hasn't happened already. What the fuck is going on?
He spoke truth to power then? Bad idea when it comes to these tinpot dictators.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico
Exactly. He's ruining Holding too. In the first year, when he still retained his training from elsewhere, he was full of fire and confidence. Then Wenger weaves his magic and you end up with a nervous wreck. Obviously the old goat is confusing the shit out of everyone he goes near. Technical this, principled that, cultural the other, but a total refusal to drill the basics. Everything should be built on those basics and the constant practise of them so they become second nature. That's true for sport, flying a plane, playing a piano or fucking a woman. But it's all too vulgar for Le'Imbecile. Did you see him the other day. He almost shat in his hand and threw it at a journo who asked if we should focus on the basics and try to win ugly. According to Wenger, this is not what football is about. Oh no, of course not. Football is about tapping it aimlessly from side to side - every purist knows that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
I was going to say that about 5 pages back but I didn't want to disrupt the unexpected traffic to the site.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
Again this rather anodyne debate occured because PnG and I differ on our definition of the word decentQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Mine is reasonably reliable judgement, distribution etc his is able to keep chin above water when they take a bath
In the great scheme of things no it's not the most important thing. But it's enough to keep me concerned every time Cech takes a knock (yeah we have big issues in front of the goalkeeper but why make things worse)
Secondly this is a match reaction page to last nights game. Ospina fucking up again in the context of him frequently fucking up seemed a relevant point of discussion.
The formation, the playing players out of position. The lack of a plan A let alone B or C. Well known by us all and discussed to death.
And yes we know it won't change until the old fart feels the sting of air freshener.
Apology accepted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie