He mad because he fat and can't attract women.....Quote:
Originally Posted by AKBapologist
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He mad because he fat and can't attract women.....Quote:
Originally Posted by AKBapologist
DV - this isn't a planned or managed clearout - this is the Club being forced into it by players who want to leave.
You are right in that many fans wanted a clearout, but I'm guessing when wishing for a clearout, Fabregas, Nasri and Clichy were hardly at the top of peoples' list. And if those names did appear on anyone's wishlist, I doubt ALL of them appeared on any one list.
I think the squad needs a massive overhaul, but I don't think the concern is necessarily for players leaving; It's about whether we spend big and actually push the boat out a bit. Losing all the players you mentioned would be terrible, but I doubt it'll happen. Clichy / Nas / Cesc look likely, but we're capable of replacing them. Not like for like, but then that's not what I want....I want some bollocks and backbone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vela
Cesc and Clichy were on mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by GB.
It's exciting in a way because I imagine the starting 11 for August will have a very different look to it. I'm just concerned at the fact our best players are disillusioned with the club, it doesn't speak volumes for Wenger and his vision at all. You have to wonder who's turn it will be next summer and the one after. It happens all the time.
Like I said, I doubt ALL would have appeared on one list.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
at least two of those players were (Cesc and Clichy) were on fans lists and it shouldn't matter whether they are planned/mamaged departures or not. if you want someone gone, and they go, then job done surely? any effect on moral for the rest of the squad would be the same in either scenario.
Yeah. This was my hope. Taking the parts that work well, and adding some tough, direct and proven quality. I think this is all people want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
I still think Vinger is bullshitting, and business will be done. Perhaps he is waiting to see if he can tempt Nasri once they get back to training. Who knows. I do think we'll go some way to revamping the side. Question is, will it be enough?
Time will tell I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
I just don't think Wenger is the draw he used to be.
Tbf, I think Clichy was on a few peoples and given the noises about Clichy have been circling (can noises do that?) for a while I'd say it's something the club has been considering as well. I think Cesc going is something that has been considered deeply from most angles by the club as it's a big issue, I feel sure we have plans for most scenarios involving him. Nasri, I think may well be an instance of someone forcing an exit but if he was really worth that much to us, we'd have paid him a little more and I'm sure he would have signed. That's beside your point though.Quote:
Originally Posted by GB.
I'd rather keep Nasri and Cesc but when a team fails quite so obviously as we did last season with Nasri being as prominent as ever in that failure then it's difficult to see those guys going out of the door as a massive crisis. I'm afraid when you're agitating for massive changes and then agitating for less change within the space of a month then it makes it look like people ain't gonna be satisfied either way and I can't take that viewpoint particularly seriously, just the way I see it though as I'm sure others would think my tendency to defend players but also look at the benefits of losing them is sheer hypocrisy.
times changeQuote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Yeah, fair enough if people are just worried about replacements but it just seems deeper than that, they're happy to tell all and sundry about how much of a failure our squad is but then when the rumours about Nasri (a guy as responsible as anyone for our collapse, outside of Wenger) surface they're there to talk about how it shows a lack of ambition. Maybe I just don't like idiots but it seems to me that there's more of this weird kind of thinking that justifies being able to rant at anything and everything that happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
It's a bit early to be hitting the panic button IMO.
I do think we need to make some proper signings this summer. The crowd need it as much as the squad.
And earlier in the transfer window would be better so players can bed in and so we don't have all this doom and gloom all summer (which is getting a little tiresome given that a lot of the moaning is about things which haven't even happened yet and may well not happen).
Come on Darth....the facts are that as a squad we fail to win anything every season, I accept that you win or lose as a team but from within the team you have some really important players who can make a difference. Nasri is one of those important players. We should be looking to add top quality players to play alongside Nasri, after all that is what he wants isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vela
Nasri was as culpable as anybody else in our annual end of season collapse but the facts are he produced stellar form in the first half of the season, he was playing at a very high level for club & country.
We will most certainly not move forward if we continue to sell our important players every 2 years. Selling Nasri to one of our rivals is nothing short of crazy, it shouldn't be allowed to happen. What on earth are we thinking weakening our team and improving a rival? :o
It isn't hypocracy to demand change and being upset with the 'change' that is occuring. In much the same way it would not be unreasonable to get rid of a wife/gf, while although reasonably pretty, just nags, spends your money, flirts and screws about with other men only to be upset you have replaced her with a truck that does the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vela
The change we need is essentially in Management as it is the Manager's phiosophies that have failed. Amongst playing staff, we needed rid of the likes of Bendtner, Chamakh, Vela, Diaby, Denilson, the entire central defence bar Vermaelen, but none of them are gone yet, primarily because nobody wants them.
We are like a business that is failing and only the attractive assets are being stripped by outside investors.
On the basis of his early form, sure we should make him our biggest earner and sell Cesc off for whatever Barca deign to offer us whilst installing Nasri in the middle of the park no questions asked but his behaviour over this contract and his ability to disappear at the times when we needed someone of his abilities to stand up shows us a little bit about his attitude and frankly, if we can get someone a little more reliable with a better attitude, even if they don't have the same talent, I'd be happy enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
I know we wouldn't sell him to Man U and I don't think we'd sell him to City either, although I doubt he'd improve City that much as they need more of that winning attitude we're trying to foster. so it's a little more likely. I'd rather keep him and I think the club would rather keep him but if he ain't signing a new contract and we're not willing to throw money at him then there's not much we can do about it.
Funny thing is though if he left tommrow we'd be in a bigger "crisis" then, we would be in today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
If AW rectify's the problem then we should be fine.
Of course he will improve a City squad that has already shown they are probably made of sterner stuff than us. Judging by the type of spikey character Nasri is as well, I think he is more than suited for what City need.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vela
It's not hypocrisy as such, just strange (from the way I see it) to say that so many of our players are failures whilst ignoring the fact that greater responsibility means a greater share of the failure, Nasri failed big time at the end of the season along with the rest of the team but he COULD have done something about it given his level of talent, he didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by GB.
I don't think you're right on it being a complete failure of our philosophy, just the balance of our team and the attitude of too many of them wasn't right but that's a completely different debate that we've all had far too much.
I don't think he's much better than Silva and with the way City play he's unlikely to get a starting berth in the middle. They've got talent but are in need of greater maturity/will to win or whatever you want to call it and I'm not convinced Nasri will help with that if his character for us is anything to go by.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
FWIW I don't think we are in crisis. I don't even think that the Cesc/Clichy/Nasri departures represent a perfect storm, because I think that if they leave, it will be for different reasons. I believe that Cesc agreed to postpone a move to Barca for one year last Summer - and the only issue now is the transfer fee. Clichy has expressed concern that he is not seen as guaranteed starter at LB and is stale and probably needs to move on. Nasri IMHO is looking for a payday - and his wanderlust stems from last Summer, not this one.
But while there's no crisis, I believe firmly that we have seen the last act in our 'potential title winners' masquerade of the past 5 years, and that we had better get used to being a team challenging to get into the top four than being title challengers for the forseeable future.
They won a trophy last year and were professional enough to not to allow their league form to drop off so embarrassingly, so I don't really think their maturity problems etc are on the scale of ours like you alluded to. Wishful thinking IMO to suggest Nasri won't improve a midfield that is primarily made up of defensive midfielders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vela
Fair enough, I still saw plenty of inconsistency from them as well, enough to make me think they need a few more guys with the right attitude but it's all pretty intangible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Thinking about it, you're probably right about having the option for him to come into midfield improving City, when they don't need the solidity he can come in and give them a little more.
I think this sums it up quite nicely. Not usually one for his blogs, but I think it's a sensible view.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnul...7/arsenal.htmlQuote:
Arsene Wenger has never lacked faith in Arsenal's team or his methods - even when painful evidence to the contrary has piled up around him.
Wenger once responded to losing a Champions League semi-final first leg at Manchester United by publicly inviting a non-believing reporter to what he was convinced would be his victorious press conference after the return at The Emirates.
He even promised "a magnificent performance". He got one all right, only it came from Manchester United and two goals inside the first 11 minutes meant the invite to a triumph was torn up.
Still, Wenger's optimism has rarely wavered but he will need every ounce of the old conviction when he takes the roll-call for Arsenal's flight out for their Far East tour next weekend as he ponders the most turbulent phase of his tenure at the club.
It seems Cesc Fabregas is heading, finally, to Barcelona, while Gael Clichy is off to Manchester City and Samir Nasri may well also be Manchester-bound - although his final destination could be Old Trafford.
Andrey Arshavin is also said to be unhappy but the growing mood of disaffection with his efforts among the Emirates gallery last season suggests he would not be missed.
Losing Nasri and Fabregas would be a major blow to Arsenal's prospects - photo: Getty
Arsenal's collapse at the conclusion of last season when a pursuit of four trophies was quickly transformed a sixth campaign without success led to renewed calls for a rebuilding programme, something the stubborn Wenger finally seemed to embrace.
The problem confronting Wenger is that he is not controlling the process, it is being taken out of his hands by disaffected players.
His great skill in the past, when success came regularly, was that he was - in football terms - the consummate economist and alchemist. He was masterful at selling players at the best time and for the best price, while renewing his squad with younger replacements. For years you could barely see the join.
He now faces the most crucial weeks of his Arsenal career. Wenger must recapture that skill quickly but if he gets it wrong then he knows he risks further demonstrations of the unrest that started to surface at The Emirates towards the end of last season.
But is the situation really as chaotic as it seems? Wenger will tell you it is not.
He may even turn what looks like an exodus into an opportunity. Fabregas looked more and more like a player with his mind on Catalonia as last season progressed while the loss of Clichy, who has been in decline for two seasons, hardly represents a devastating blow.
Nasri's apparent dissatisfaction potentially represents the most damaging blow and not just because he could end up at one of Arsenal's Premier League rivals. It was a setback no-one at Arsenal appears to have seen coming until it was too late, although Wenger has not given up hope of persuading him to stay.
If Fabregas and Nasri go - Clichy is neither here nor there in my opinion despite being a fine player earlier in his Arsenal career - and Wenger's replacements are not successful right away, how long before Robin van Persie casts his eyes elsewhere or Jack Wilshere attracts serious interest for other clubs?
And how can Arsenal hope to attract the sort of players to challenge for titles at home and in Europe if their best players are effectively seen to be forming an orderly queue at the exit?
Wenger will playing for high stakes in the weeks before the season starts. If he does not bring in the right players, Arsenal will fall even further off the pace with Manchester United, Chelsea and Manchester City in various stages of rejuvenation.
However, it is not a situation without hope. If Wenger can get more than £60m for these three players - and it surely unthinkable that the club's board will not hand him the funds he has brought in - then he has the opportunity to shape a new Arsenal built around Wilshere, Van Persie and Aaron Ramsey alongside the young talent he cherishes such as goalkeeper Wojchiech Szczesny.
After all, this is not the dismantling of a successful side, it is the changing face of a team that has won nothing for six years and has proved alarmingly inadequate when presented with the greatest challenges.
Wenger's self-belief has never been shaken but now he has been presented with his greatest test. If he fails then Arsenal will fail. It is as stark as that in Arsenal's current condition.
Wenger is under the severest pressure of his Arsenal reign - photo: Getty
Despite what many Arsenal supporters believe, many of us would love to see this wonderful manager regain the sure touch of his early years and end his barren sequence.
To do so, he will also need to unearth players of steel to go alongside the silk provided by Wilshere and Ramsey. Gary Cahill of Bolton and Chris Samba of Blackburn may not appear to be identikit Wenger players but if last season finally got one message across, it was that Arsenal needed substance to go with style.
Former defender Nigel Winterburn said: "It has got to the stage where you look at the amount of money Man City have got, United have already gone out and bought players and Chelsea will spend.
"I don't think Arsenal can compete with those teams financially, but people will want to see that the squad is being strengthened because they have come up really short in terms of spending over the last two years.
"They need to get that winning mentality and that could mean signing two or three English players to get that English spirit alongside the style of football they play.
"If Arsenal don't do that, they are not going to win the league because all the other top teams will get stronger and we are not powerful enough over 38 games to compete - although they are not far away."
Everton's Phil Jagielka would be perfect for Arsenal, a defender who operates within a no-frills framework and is a voice and leader on the pitch - but this is not a deal that will find any willing takers at Goodison Park after Wenger was turned away last summer.
Lille's Gervinho is more in the Wenger mould while the Argentine Ricardo Alvarez is an exciting talent - but Wenger will need more bite in midfield to help Wilshere.
Perhaps England coach Fabio Capello has dropped him a hint by placing West Ham United's Scott Parker alongside Wilshere in the England side with some success. Age makes him a departure from Wenger's usual template and it would be a short-term fix, but long-term planning has brought nothing in the way of trophies since the FA Cup win against Manchester United in 2005 so it is surely worth consideration.
These are defining days for Wenger. How he responds to events that have appeared beyond his control will shape Arsenal's future - and his own.
Yeh - decent enough article.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
I shun away from the word 'crisis' but am not sure if tht is because I am too stupid to admit........
what I do know is that the whole club needs to open its eyes wide, because if it doesn't it is about to hit, head on, one hell of a brick wall.
there are numerous things at foot within the club, the fact that we cant address the simpliest of needs, can do nothing but concern every Arsenal fan.
I can remember for the last couple of years now saying that we need to make a statement of our intent, bring in the kind of players that will do a job and at the sametime find an answer to teams that have obviously come up with an effective gameplan when playing us......that intent has not been shown or at least a weak attempt of it has......it means that we are no longer considered legitimate threats, the time SAF stopped goading AW was a massive sign of that. We have been caught up by a number of teams and overtaken by a couple of others amd have had no answer for it.
We moan about some clubs buying success but by the way things sound, our board has not done too bad!
This truely is the last summer, the last chance, in fact if we lose the kind of players we look like we are about to lose (Cesc/Nasri) then we can say that that last summer/chance has passed us by.
Cesc was always going to leave, Nasri I thought was looking for his position but obviously is looking for a little more - Arsenal will always go on and most will always continue to support the team but its frustrating to watch this distingration, I dont doubt that we can build up again without the likes of Cesc nd Nas and I pray that AW has a plan because it is his plan that we are stuck with.
I grew up with the Arsenal of the 80s and watched GG come along and make us great, followed by AW who took us even higher, my main worry is that although I believe we can become great again, the financial clout of some will make the climb this time around much more difficult than when I was a kid.