Match Reaction: Arsenal vs Man Utd - It Will Never Change While Wenger Haunts Us

I ask myself if we'd see the same individual mistakes month after month under a different manager.

The answer I get to is no.

Therefore it's down to wenger.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Is Robbie from AFTV the new Letters?

"Sooooo disappointing, but we've really played well today. We've given it maximum effort. We've shown great desire."

So, Mrs Lincoln, apart from the two fatal crashes, how was my driving?

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He gets access and freebies from the club.

Cech needs to be replaced now, not really good enough anymore, prone to errors and rarely makes those matchwinning saves, too easy to beat.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Cech needs to be replaced now, not really good enough anymore, prone to errors and rarely makes those matchwinning saves, too easy to beat.

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What was your view in 2011? Asking for a friend

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Originally Posted by Özim

Watched a bit of AFTV, there really is no hope is there, we have a group of fans that still think we're unlucky despite seeing this time and time and time again for over a decade, they're like mini Wengers who are never willing to accept he's finished and that if you're "unlucky" all the time it's not due to bad luck anymore.

We could be 15 points behind City by the end of the day, 15 points and it's still a month until Christmas, once again miles away from the title, that's what counts, it's not bad luck, it's bad play!

No excuses, it's a team game both attack and defence have to work to win games like these, the defence had a shocker, we weren't unlucky, we were poor at the back, you're never going to win a big game if you give away two goals like this, a good team is built from the back and at the back we're rubbish, we're never going to pull off those shock resuls and beat superior teams in matches that matter without a top defence.

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There is no hope if people still think this has anything to do with luck. Wenger's record against Mourinho speaks for itself.

The game was over after 11 minutes. I don't care about the amount of shots we had on their goal, possession or how we had them pinned back after. It's meaningless. Beaten by the same tactics we've seen on countless occasions. Press high, force mistakes and turnovers. It stems from our midfield problems in Xhaka and Ramsey and bottle job players like Kos should be getting way more stick. If that were Merts he'd be getting slated.

Wenger again not preparing his players mentally and setting things up tactically wrong by giving them no plan B when teams pressure us high up the pitch. Without fail, every team knows that we won't boot it long when under pressure and will always try to play it out of danger. I only watch a few minutes of MOTD towards the end and that's all I need to see. We're doing the same shit over and over again.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

There is no hope if people still think this has anything to do with luck. Wenger's record against Mourinho speaks for itself.

The game was over after 11 minutes. I don't care about the amount of shots we had on their goal, possession or how we had them pinned back after. It's meaningless. Beaten by the same tactics we've seen on countless occasions. Press high, force mistakes and turnovers. It stems from our midfield problems in Xhaka and Ramsey and bottle job players like Kos should be getting way more stick. If that were Merts he'd be getting slated.

Wenger again not preparing his players mentally and setting things up tactically wrong by giving them no plan B when teams pressure us high up the pitch. Without fail, every team knows that we won't boot it long when under pressure and will always try to play it out of danger. I only watch a few minutes of MOTD towards the end and that's all I need to see. We're doing the same shit over and over again.

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Exactly. Luck:lol:

They forced mistakes and pounced on them. They pressed high, hustled our defenders and forced mistakes. How is that luck? :haha: it was tactical gameplan :lol:

And people wonder why when we do get it right (ie Spurs) the win is often not given the credence or respect it deserves. Everyone knows how flaky we are, it’s embarrassing.

Wenger isnt having it today.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...08&oe=5AC80AA9

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Originally Posted by Özim

No got no problem with people disagreeing, but after a decade of basically the same thing happening surely you have to wake up and smell the coffee, it's not a one off, we see the same thing season after season, our limitations are not really up for debate anymore surely now?

33 shots and only scored 1, over the years we've heard many times how their keeper was their best player, the thing is there was also some very poor finishing, something Man U didn't suffer from, yes we played well but at the end of the day we were horrible defensively and didn't put our chances away.

In the end performance is meaningless without the result and time and time again we fail to get the result when the other team has something to play for. As for blame, happens with too much regularity not to blame the manager, we gave away chances against Huddersfield but they couldn't take them but the better teams do, so it's nothing new, it's 100% Wengers fault we're rubbish in defence, the mistakes comes from lack of quality, tactics, focus, motivation and that's all down to Wenger, these aren't one offs.

I don't agree, it's not about what happens on the pitch anymore, it's about what is happening at this club, this season we're probably going to be 15 points away from Man City by the end of today, so out of the title race well before Christmas and a decent performance in a game we lost really doesn't change anything. We've turned a 1000 corners (we do every 3 matches these days), problem is there's never any light at the end of the tunnel it's just a constant loop.

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The point is the two defenders put us in the position of being two nil down. I think you can blame both those players and Wenger for that without any doubt. Why try and play out from the back when you’ve got a team that is pressing high and will punish sloppy errors.

The point on display is that you can’t fault the performance of most of the players after that point

Yes we’ve seen that kind of result a lot and it is totally tactically naive and I don’t believe anyone thought otherwise

Your contention however seems to be that United were under no pressure, which is just demonstrably false

No I don’t think it was luck, we took an injured defender off and stuck an attacking player on so we always left a risk of being caught on the break. But I don’t buy the idea that the finishing was consistently poor, my contention is simply that we lost ourselves the game in first ten minutes despite doing everything possible to remedy that afterwards

Also that’s a third of our games lost this season.

Really poor.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Also that’s a third of our games lost this season.

Really poor.

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Really expected

At least another 3 years with him :coffee: Let that sink in:lol:

12 home wins in a row :bow:

That's his new contract sorted :bow:

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

The point is the two defenders put us in the position of being two nil down. I think you can blame both those players and Wenger for that without any doubt. Why try and play out from the back when you’ve got a team that is pressing high and will punish sloppy errors.

The point on display is that you can’t fault the performance of most of the players after that point

Yes we’ve seen that kind of result a lot and it is totally tactically naive and I don’t believe anyone thought otherwise

Your contention however seems to be that United were under no pressure, which is just demonstrably false

No I don’t think it was luck, we took an injured defender off and stuck an attacking player on so we always left a risk of being caught on the break. But I don’t buy the idea that the finishing was consistently poor, my contention is simply that we lost ourselves the game in first ten minutes despite doing everything possible to remedy that afterwards

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I don't know what you're reading.

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yes we played well but at the end of the day we were horrible defensively and didn't put our chances away.

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so out of the title race well before Christmas and a decent performance in a game we lost really doesn't change anything.

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There isn't much to argue about in either of Zim's post.

We lost but put in a great performance..:ilt::doh::whistle:

The story of our Wenger existence. Put that along with narrowly defeating Barca and Bayern away after being tanked at home.

Tha sad part is that it's fans waxing lyrical about an abysmal loss and not even Wenger. There were absolutely no positives to take from that game. None whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Cech needs to be replaced now, not really good enough anymore, prone to errors and rarely makes those matchwinning saves, too easy to beat.

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Thats basically one of the differences between Wenger and the Elite coaches, Elite coaches are proactive Wenger is reactive. An Elite Manager identifies weaknesses in the team and resolves them ASAP, Wenger does nothing but amble on and make the required change often too late or in some cases just buys the wrong type of player. The Top 3 teams all have young elite keepers we have an ageing one who is in decline. None of this has anything to do with money either, Wenger has wasted millions on garbage over the past few seasons Lacazette aside.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Also that’s a third of our games lost this season.

Really poor.

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It’s going to be another car crash season, I think we’ll end up losing around 10 or 11 games. What do people expect when half of the team want to be somewhere else, they don’t care.

I wouldn’t be surprised if yesterday’s game is the start of some sort of collapse, Southampton away next, happy days, it’s our bogey ground.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

I don't know what you're reading.





There isn't much to argue about in either of Zim's post.

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Zim's contention last night was that United were under no pressure, quoting his post is just so i'm replying directly to him

Plus i think the AFTV responses were largely about how naive we were defensively, and unlucky was in context of how many saves De Gea made

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Zim's contention last night was that United were under no pressure, quoting his post is just so i'm replying directly to him

Plus i think the AFTV responses were largely about how naive we were defensively, and unlucky was in context of how many saves De Gea made

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We were definitely the better team but our finishing and defending let us down, they were clinical on the counter although a lot of that was to do with our poor defending and lack of awareness.

We’ve seen this all before many times so it’s not like yesterday was some kind of freak of nature result/outcome.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

So before our resident apologist chimes in.

YES. Utd have a bigger wage bill and more money than us.

But you actually WATCHED the match, right?

So now you can see how little that actually means when two ULTRA RICH clubs go head to head.

You need a plan. A competent manager. A well drilled squad. A good mentality.

We have Wenger.

Don't listen to those Wenger apologist bullshit artists when they come knocking with their eternally crappy excuses.

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Careful the self proclaimed bullshit police will be back soon policing the forum for any 'extreme' anti Wenger views:lol:

On a side note is de gea one of the best goalkeepers the premier league has ever had? Top 5 surely

Arsenal's Facebook account showing the expected tact and context.

http://i65.tinypic.com/bdpgea.jpg

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Originally Posted by Vieira

On a side note is de gea one of the best goalkeepers the premier league has ever had? Top 5 surely

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Hard to say. Our finishing was so woefully inept, we hit at least half those efforts right at him and certainly more than a couple of those "saves" were him standing there, oblivious, as we punted the ball off him. But there were more than a few good saves in there and some of the time it was him against us, Utd's defence being pretty poxy in truth.

Nowhere near as poxy as ours, of course.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Hard to say. Our finishing was so woefully inept, we hit at least half those efforts right at him and certainly more than a couple of those "saves" were him standing there, oblivious, as we punted the ball off him. But there were more than a few good saves in there and some of the time it was him against us, Utd's defence being pretty poxy in truth.

Nowhere near as poxy as ours, of course.

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It's been worse. They beat us 8-2 in 2011 :coffee:

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Hard to say. Our finishing was so woefully inept, we hit at least half those efforts right at him and certainly more than a couple of those "saves" were him standing there, oblivious, as we punted the ball off him. But there were more than a few good saves in there and some of the time it was him against us, Utd's defence being pretty poxy in truth.

Nowhere near as poxy as ours, of course.

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Certainly a mixture of poor finishing and good saves but there's no doubt De Gea is an exceptional keeper, he's been one of, if not the best in the game for a number of years now.

Hope we can find ourselves someone of his class soon. I think Cech is ok, still very commanding in the box but he's showing his age now, doesn't seem to be very agile anymore.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Certainly a mixture of poor finishing and good saves but there's no doubt De Gea is an exceptional keeper, he's been one of, if not the best in the game for a number of years now.

Hope we can find ourselves someone of his class soon. I think Cech is ok, still very commanding in the box but he's showing his age now, doesn't seem to be very agile anymore.

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Cech's a great pro - all we need to do now is put a defence in front of him. 10 years without a defence. It's a scandal that has become a tradition that has become business as usual. Wenger has lulled at least half the players and half the fans, and certainly the majority of the executive, into believing second best will do. Cech cut his teeth on being a winner. Now he finds himself at a club where winning is just not on the priority list. Yet you don't see him moaning or complaining or causing a fuss, he gets on and does the best he can do. Eventually age will catch up with him, but for now he's a good solid pro, he has winning in his locker, Wenger can't take away his winner's medals and I'll bet he's a great influence in the dressing room and I'm pretty damn sure we'd be worse off if we lost one of the characters who knows what winning is about.

I'd also bet De Gea would look half the keeper if he came and played for us. We all know why.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Cech's a great pro - all we need to do now is put a defence in front of him. 10 years without a defence. It's a scandal that has become a tradition that has become business as usual. Wenger has lulled at least half the players and half the fans, and certainly the majority of the executive, into believing second best will do. Cech cut his teeth on being a winner. Now he finds himself at a club where winning is just not on the priority list. Yet you don't see him moaning or complaining or causing a fuss, he gets on and does the best he can do. Eventually age will catch up with him, but for now he's a good solid pro, he has winning in his locker, Wenger can't take away his winner's medals and I'll bet he's a great influence in the dressing room and I'm pretty damn sure we'd be worse off if we lost one of the characters who knows what winning is about.

I'd also bet De Gea would look half the keeper if he came and played for us. We all know why.

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Gunnersaurus' pre match high 5s?

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Originally Posted by AFC Leveller

Koscielny was so amateurish on the 3rd goal, what was he doing? he tried to barge Pogba off the ball and he ended up being rolled like a kid. All he needed to do there was stand his ground and move Pogba away form our goal.

That 3rd goal was the killer because we were peppering their goal.

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It reminded me of his defending when he first joined the club.... just getting rolled and muscled off the ball at key moments by any old oaf. Some suggestions from places that he is still habouring an injury though....?

I've thought De Gea is better than Neuer for a few years now.....and not just because he is a brilliant shot stopper. Quite possibly the best there is.

After all these years.

Our defence...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/...2402944242.jpg

Wenger OUT! Enough is enough and then some.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

After all these years.

Our defence...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/...2402944242.jpg

Wenger OUT! Enough is enough and then some.

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The epitome of bad coaching, but Wenger never sees, bad luck on the result because clearly we were the better team he says. Yeah right. The better team with worse defenders, worse midfield and inaccurate strikers.

Koscielny gets bossed off the ball by Pogba. Just as he used to do when he joined over half a decade ago. Just as Senderos used to do against Drogba all those years ago. This from a man who used to hobble the invincibles by adding Pascal Cygan into their mix. A man who regularly plays CB as FB and vice versa. Bad coaching or more likely non existent coaching. All hallmarks of delusion and gross incompetence.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

After all these years.

Our defence...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/...2402944242.jpg

Wenger OUT! Enough is enough and then some.

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Wright is right. (sorry).

I'm hearing people quote the stats but isn't this the sort of thing we slate Wenger for? Like a couple of weeks back when he was talking about that 'likely goals' stat or whatever it was.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

The epitome of bad coaching, but Wenger never sees, bad luck on the result because clearly we were the better team he says. Yeah right. The better team with worse defenders, worse midfield and inaccurate strikers.

Koscielny gets bossed off the ball by Pogba. Just as he used to do when he joined over half a decade ago. Just as Senderos used to do against Drogba all those years ago. This from a man who used to hobble the invincibles by adding Pascal Cygan into their mix. A man who regularly plays CB as FB and vice versa. Bad coaching or more likely non existent coaching. All hallmarks of delusion and gross incompetence.

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Kos improved as a defender when Merts arrived and his form has dropped off with the mistakes happening more often without him. It was never a perfect partnership but he reminds of what happened to Kola once we lost Sol Campbell.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

After all these years.

Our defence...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/...2402944242.jpg

Wenger OUT! Enough is enough and then some.

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:lol: laughable defending, how any manager of any top club in the world can keep his job when stuff like this happens is beyond me, it's basics in drilling your defence and how to defend, 5 players chasing one player is obviously going to leave lots of players free, one good pass and you're in real trouble.

The man just doesn't have a clue about football, 20000 substitutions or not.

It's not down to Wenger. It's down to luck.






























:haha:

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Originally Posted by Özim

:lol: laughable defending, how any manager of any top club in the world can keep his job when stuff like this happens is beyond me, it's basics in drilling your defence and how to defend, 5 players chasing one player is obviously going to leave lots of players free, one good pass and you're in real trouble.

The man just doesn't have a clue about football, 20000 substitutions or not.

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The four headless chickens bum rushing Pogba, who is about to make the world's easiest pass, that's bad enough. But the guy in the gloves strolling back, seemingly oblivious, that's ridiculous. Who is that?

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

But the guy in the gloves strolling back, seemingly oblivious, that's ridiculous. Who is that?

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Ozil.

Not really, it's Alexis.

Wenger must have studied FIFA because that's exactly what happens to the defence in that game as well, everyone rushes to the ball and leave huge gaping holes in the defence.

The only way to stop a goal is then to make a mifield run back and act as some sort of sweeper, Xhaka is too rubbish for that though.

We don't work as a team. So many times during the game I'm like where the hell is our midfield.

The team needs to move as one. Attack as one. Defend as one. Too often there's gaping holes and players stretched into wide positions.

Once in a blue moon we get it right like at spurs but then we go back to normality. It needs to be worked and instilled into their mindset week in week out. Not once in a blue moon.

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Originally Posted by Özim

:lol: laughable defending, how any manager of any top club in the world can keep his job when stuff like this happens is beyond me, it's basics in drilling your defence and how to defend, 5 players chasing one player is obviously going to leave lots of players free, one good pass and you're in real trouble.

The man just doesn't have a clue about football, 20000 substitutions or not.

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:haha: Classic Arsenal

Can you imagine that defending under Graham? He'd have put a rocket up their arse:lol:

George:bow:

Our 2nd best manager ever

After Herbert Chapman:bow:

Zingaard:haha:

Im still having nightmares.