I thought we’d win by at least 2 clear goals.
So this feels like a loss to me.
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I thought we’d win by at least 2 clear goals.
So this feels like a loss to me.
As discussed, I didn’t see it but I agree (and worryingly, with Zim) that the performance, or maybe lack thereof, is a bigger concern than the result. It’s fine to lose games, it happens, but I expect them to fight at least. If that didn’t happen then it’s disappointing. Will try and catch MoTD2Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin
Disagree with the lack of desire part. It looked nothing like our worst games over the last few years. You'll see for youself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Lack of width is a worry for us, we really should have signed a winger in the summer, we lack pace on the wings, Mhiki really doesn't provide the width we need, I mentioned Gelson Martinez and think we should have been in for him given that he was available on a free.
Chelsea is up next and to be honest I expect us to lose that too away from home, the lineup will be important, if he plays the lineup he played today (minus MN) we'll lose for sure, Leno, Lacazette and Torreira need to start for us to have any chance.
The likes of Cech and Xhaka are the past and need to be phased out, probably play Mavropanos ahead of Mustafi, to see what he can offer to be honest. Ozil was awful today, but we don't really have a decent alternative to him to be honest but he needs to improve 100%, Mhiki wasn't much better, been disappointed with what he's brought to the team since we brought him in thus far.
Shame we didn't get that young guy from PSG as well, would have been good to have some options we can try, I feel we're a bit restricted and the squad lacks something in areas (defence and to some extent midfield).
In my 36 years on this earth, one off the things I've learnt, is that, Greatness is easily recognizable. And when I look at Emery, the word great doesn't come to mind at all. Slightly above average, now that comes to mind.
His track record didn't convince, and just looking at his demeanour today, convinces me even less.
Oh well
And it's going to take most of the season to stop them from happening and even longer to get together the team he wants to play how he wants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin
Are you seriously claiming you recognised greatness in Wenger (and whatever you think of the last decade or so, the first 8 years were indisputably great) after his first game?Quote:
Originally Posted by hobson's choice
I call bullshit on that.
Not that I’m claiming Emery is going to be great, but give the chap a chance.
I'm not sure many Utd fans saw 'greatness' for the first five years of Fergie's reign.Quote:
Originally Posted by hobson's choice
Nor when a spectacled school teacher turned up at Highbury back in 96 trying to tell us and the players he was a football manager.
Well that's because we, err, lost... ?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unaibomber
It would have been better had we not played the best team in the country but this seemed very similar to last season in terms of performance, lack of energy or looking like scoring. But it was City and they will win the league at a canter. Plus points, regularly I was able to turn over to the cricket which was going a whole lot better and alot more enjoyable.
I still think we will finish 4th and I wouldn't be surprised if we draw next weekend against the Chavs.
Find it bizarre singling out Guendouzi for criticism. Made a few mistakes but for a 19 year old making his prem debut I thought he did pretty well.
For me it was the established players who didn't deliver, the front three all poor, Xhaka and Ramsey showing the same old flaws.
Defensively better than I expected through, helped by Lichsteiners introduction.
Torreira has to start the next game. Hopefully Monreal is back as well.
They can't all be as great as Moussa Sissoko.Quote:
Originally Posted by hobson's choice
Emery has a big job on his hands but today was a bit of a free hit. City are superior to us in pretty much every area on the pitch. Not particularly bothered about this result if I’m honest, it was half expected.
On we go.
Mkhitaryan and Ozil down the wing just looked awful. Not enough productivity. All they'll look to do is cut inside to play neat passes. No powerful runs down the flank and neither look to have an eye for goal. They were weak on the counter attacks. Lacazette and Aubameyang have to start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Ozil just isn't going be of much use in these games, he rarely rises to the occasion and drags us to a result against the odds.
But he'll create 67 chances in one game against teams like Huddersfield and Bournemouth and prove his worth to us.
It's a typical performance from Ozil on this sort of occasion. We'll see what he can do against the lower ranked teams but I'm not holding my breath.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
There were many negatives today. Biggest one was Ozil.. man is a fraud. Fuck that turd and sell his arse to anyone paying 23$ for him. Ramsey was clueless as usual.. I wonder what Emery sees in him that he wants to extend the guys contract. Let him leave... yesterday! Xhaka was useless as well.. what is his best position? The bench?
Oh, and Cech is not the keeper to help you play out of the back.. especially against a team like City. I'd have started Leno. Also, why do we have 4 GK's in the squad? Time to offload Cech to China or Japan.
I saw some positives today though. I thought Guendozi (sp?) was brilliant for his first game. Lichsteiner looked really good and showed what experience can do. I was also very impressed with Lacazette and his link up play when he came on... AND the biggest positive for me today was how we didnt look to sideway pass throughout the game. It almost seemed like we wanted to move the ball forward and attack the opposition (even though we failed miserably at it.. intent was there).
In all honesty I expected us to lose. We are miles behind clubs like Man City & Liverpool. Heck we are behind the Spuds if we are brutally honest.
All I want from this season is to see some kind of progress, I want to see crappy players sold, a new identity in this team, a team that fights for their badge and manager.
I don’t expect top 4 this season, I think we have way too much work to do but I expect progress!
I thought Ozil was just very oddly on a different wavelength to everybody else for the entire game. Not quite sure why, but I didn't think it was an abject performance from him....more disjointed, but I get that many feels disappointed. He made his bed when he got his wage increase and so get's little leeway.
I thought Lacazette wasn't the issue, but I do wish at times he would calm down in front of goal. Still get the feeling he is going for power too often.
Xhaka's performance was identical to his ridiculous performance(s) this time last season. Passively running around the field without any real purpose or sense of knowing what he's supposed to be doing, ball watching, giving the ball away playing a hospital pass and falling over. I'm aghast that so many people wanted him in the starting lineup for this season.
At this level you can't watch a player in the middle of the park, fail to understand what the fuhk he's actually doing in our favour and want him to remain there doing it. Guendouzi showed him up today, even with his errors, but that is no surprise to me.
It's not much consolation, but I thought Bellerin was good today and thought AMN was too and losing him was a big blow. The game was fairly open which I enjoyed from the point of view of seeing us move the ball from our third to their third much quicker. Scant consolation as we lost, but I prefer to see us move the ball in that way.
Mhki might as well have not been there most of the game. Forgot he was even playing for large portions.
The fact is City are on another level to us, to a man they are better than us and can bring on 60m worth of talent of the bench. However, the problems from Wenger's ear wont disappear overnight, its gonna take at least 2 seasons to see real improvement. Xhaka, Ramsay, the defense etc. were the main culprits and Unai Emery will to act sooner than Wenger did, he needs to start Toreira ahead of Xhaka and play Lacazette from the start. That shot from Laca would have changed the game, it was only 1-0 and we were still in it.
Anyway, this season is all about bedding in the new coaching staff and system, i liked the effort and the energy and i think we will see better performances this season.
Ozil is always on a different wavelength. For a playmaker with his passing ability, don’t you find it odd that he hasn’t formed an understanding with any of the players? I remember stories from players who played with Bergkamp, Cesc or even David Beckham….as soon as they these players on the ball, they make quick eye contact and know the sort of ball that’s going to be played. Sometimes something as little as eye contact isn’t even needed, they just know to expect the ball to come their way because said playmaker or more than capable of putting it on a plate for the strikers. That never seems to happen with Ozil despite now be surrounding with quicker players with an eye for goal like Aubameyang and Lacazette.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
First half, we didn’t create much and Ozil did well to cover the flanks and defend. Second half he fluffed his lines a bit and we failed to really take advantage of our chances.
Lacazette made a positive impact once subbed on. You could see how he and Aubameyang will link up. I thought the chance you’re referring to, where Laca hit the cut back over was down to an overpowerd pass from Mkhitaryan. The pass was zipped under Laca’s feet and not in his path, I think Mkh was aiming for Ozil who was just behind Laca.
Mkh is a worry for me. No power or pace to his game for the wing. He has to do better than that. It was so poor, Danny Welbeck being a better option came to mind. Provided no defensive cover for AMN.
AMN had a really good moment going forwards where he dribbled through a few players but he was getting roasted and targeted by City. Lichtsteiner was better defensively and showed a moment where he wasn’t that slow getting forward. Shame about AMN’s injury though.
Xhaka just keeps on getting worse. Every theory and idea I’ve heard from fans of how he can be used better and it all being Wenger’s fault has really fallen apart. It looked as though he was playing a deeper role, like how he did in Germany, where he’s close to the CB’s collecting and distributing the ball. It was confident start for the opening few minutes but once City pressured him and he starting giving the ball away, he went missing and stopped looking for the ball. He wanted know parts of it and left Guendouzi to deal with the bulk of the work. A 19 year! When defending, Xhaka was coming way to deep and was on the defensive line way too often.
I don't think you can get away with having Mhiki and Ozil in the same team, certainly against top teams.
Based on yesterday's performance Torreira should be coming in for Xhaka. I think Lacazette made a strong case to start as well, even if that means moving Auba wider he can still be effective there with his pace and running in behind. I just think we need to find a way to get both on the pitch.
I feel for AMN as he clearly isn't comfortable at left back. He's obviously confident in his ability, but at times I think he's too complacent. Hopefully he'll be told to get tighter to his winger if he's playing full back. But ideally he will get more games in centre mid this season, he's clearly a talent.
Some positives for me;
Defence wasn't as bad as I was expecting (says a lot about where we are currently). Sokratis was solid and Mustafi played quite well. Lichsteiner adds a bit of steel. However an overall lack of pace, and Mustafi's guaranteed brainfarts will probably still come back to bite us though.
Guendouzi looks promising and will hopefully have the right coaching to improve. He always showed for the ball, looked to play positively and competed physically against seasoned international players. When he misjudged the bounce to let Aguero through my first thought was why the fuck was he left 1 on 1 at the back. At every level of football you get taught not to do that. That's on the coaches and senior players to spot and correct.
Auba and Laca seem to link up really well and I am hopeful they can form a formidable partnership.
I think we have to play Aubameyang. I was against it at first but we have no other options with that sort of speed and strength on the wing. Ozil and Mkh are just too weak to play on the counter attack. We’ll need a drastic improvement from them both. Heck, even Ramsey or Welbeck out wide looked a better option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooner23
Agree on the positives. The defence had wobbles but looked better. Sokratis and Mustafi were ok. Guendouzi made mistakes but he never hid from the ball, fought to win possession and pressed hard. By far our best midfielder on the day. A 19 year old kid that came from Ligue 2!
If Liverpool can do it with Salah no reason why we cant make it work.
I was thinking of Liverpool. France as well. The way Lacazette was dropping deep to link up play....he definitely has more to his game that would help us out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooner23
Arseblog Player Ratings.
Agree with most except I would have given Sokratis more than a 5.Quote:
Arsenal 0-2 Man City – Player Ratings
GK Petr Cech, 6 – He made some very important saves, although he did look a bit unsure with the ball at his feet and only Guendouzi made more touches. However, he seemed to enjoy that part of it.
RB Hector Bellerin, 5.5 – Had our best chance of the first half, and the system Emery used left both full backs exposed quite often.
CB Shkodran Mustafi, 5.5 – Turned easily by Sterling early on, but didn’t dive in too much which is a good sign.
CB Sokratis, 5 – Being an aggressive central defender doesn’t mean you clobber the opposition, it’s how you try and close down the ball, and for both goals today he wasn’t as aggressive as he could have been in that regard.
LB Ainsley Maitland-Niles, 5 – Absolutely roasted down the left in the opening periods, after which it settled down a bit, but he’s a young guy playing out of position and he should have been given more protection and better guidance from the experienced defenders around him.
MF Matteo Guendouzi, 6.5 – There was a lot to like about his performance, particularly after he was poor for the goal and struggled in the opening 20-25 minutes. He worked hard, never hid, and those are positives, but there were times when his inexperience at this level was evident and he was lucky one bad mistake wasn’t punished with a City goal. Hopefully he’ll be a quick learner.
MF Granit Xhaka, 4.5 – Late back from the World Cup and hasn’t had as much pre-season preparation as some of the others, but he was still poor and rightly taken off.
MF Aaron Ramsey, 5 – We can only assume he was playing that far forward because he was instructed to, and he did produce some good moments in the first half, but he was hooked early in the second half to make way for Lacazette.
MF Mesut Ozil, 5 – Had some chances late in the second half which a player of his quality really should have done better with.
MF Henrikh Mkhitaryan, 4 – Invisible and lightweight.
FW Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang, 5 – We never got him into the game at all.
I think it's a learning process for the team, but what I did think is that Emery made a mistake with the lineup, Xhaka definitely shouldn't have featured and Lacazette should have played as well.
In goal Cech can't pass and to be honest if you're signing a keeper for 20 odd million you really should play him, Cechs best days are behind him and we should be building for the future and that hopefully will be Leno, big kick in the teeth for him not to start after swaping Germany for England, he's 26 as well so not some kid.
As for the style, passing from the back and the movement required will take time to learn, City were great yesterday and they're a top top sides, we're so far behind it's unreal to be honest, totally outclassed and they should have been out of sight by half time (it kinda shows how far we've fallen).
Another issue is no width in the team, can't understand not signing a winger in the summer, there's no logic, there were players available some for free!
I'm beginning to feel like we might never be challengers again to be honest (as much as I don't want that obviously), it's a combination of the owner situation and having some guy who has no interest and the fact I'm not convinced we're really willing to spend what is required, which in modern day football (highlighted a bit by our summer transfer window) you need to.
As much as I'm happy with Emery he's not one of the elite coaches (hence the reason I wanted Simeone as my number 1 choice), his record is good but his stock was somewhat lower due to his issues at PSG, that's not to say that he couldn't produce a winning team, just that we never seem to aim for the best (likewise with signing players), which I think you need to to have a good chance of winning.
Time will tell anyway, but Kroenke taking over the club has really put a dampener for me, I never wanted this guy in charge he was just as much of a problem as Wenger was a he's the guy that let him carry on, anyway will back Emery and hope he can turn aroud our fortunes and pray he doesn't get hampered by the owner and his commitment to making money, meanwhile at least we're likely to see something different which can only be a good thing.
As for Ramsey, the guy shouldn't play until he's signed and if he won't just sell him, can't have another Ozil/Sanchez situation (though it's looking more and more likely by the day).
Feeling oddly deflated today, which is stupid really, because I expected us to lose, and wasn't expecting to see things really start to click under Emery until well into 2019. I guess thinking something and actually living with it are two very different things, and I wasn't quite as prepared for this slog as I thought I was.
(Also doesn't help that all our rivals started off with wins, despite all the talk of players returning late from the WC, and meltdowns at united, etc.)
Did the players at least look like they were playing with a little more effort and urgency? I'm not expecting the tactical side of things and the fluidity of our play to be anywhere close yet, but improved attitude shouldn't take any time.
One positive I can see from the match reports is that the new coach at least had no qualms about hooking Ramsey and Xhaka for underperforming - that's something.
Any word on AMN? How serious is that looking?
Yeah for me, what I would have expected was players keen to impress the new manager, just not enough energy for me, still looked stale, not enough desire and noone looked rejuvenated (which often is the case when a new manager comes in), which makes you question what some of these players actually offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
IMO it's because these Wenger players have got use to an easy ride, they're not winners, they don't really care that much, overpaid and overrated and that's the reason I'm very keen for us to get rid of most of the Wenger players and was against the new contracts handed out to them, they just don't have it in them to win, they don't want it enough.
Ozil, Mhiki, Xhaka didn't look hungry or motivated, it's not to do with playing well it's to do with showing real hunger and effort ont the pitch and it goes for numerous others as well, to be honest Guendouzi put them to shame, yes he made mistakes but he actually showed some desire unlike 90% of these former Wenger players.
Bit too much like old Arsenal for me and the reason is too many Wenger players.
I agree with some of the points this guy comes out with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLzwEexc54Y
Re his point about Liverpool they actually had already spent all the Coutinho money bar 100 million so spend net 150 million this summer.
Neither of our rivals won.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
Burnley and Everton both drew.
Arsenal are miles behind the big 5.
I think it's just a little bit sobering when you realise how far off we actually are from being a fully functional and cohesive team. Expectations need to be managed, after all we're coming off 6th and 5th place finishes and old habits die hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
It was never going to be as simple as changing the coach, it's about ridding ourselves of this loser mentality, bringing in a different culture and being brave and ruthless enough to try new things. I believe Emery will be given time at least, unless he turns out to be even worse than Wenger was during his latter years.
The only comparison you can make is how Utd dealt with life after Fergie. Emery at least has a history of winning stuff which counts for something. We may have to accept that the transition could take another 2/3 managers before we are back on the right track again. We will never spend the money they do at City and Utd, so it will come down to the right coach maximising his resources. It’s going to take some time to do that. Emery will get at least two years unless he has a complete car crash, then we’ll see where we are then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
I agree with you. I thought we tried and didn't let our heads drop like our last couple of games against Citeh. I find the criticism of Emery a bit unjustified. The only way he is going to be able to make progress is to see how we play in competitive games and I am not sure there is too much to be read into a game against league champions who have now had since 2016 to learn a devastating brand of football under the best manager in the world. I think much of the disappointment is down to the fact that this was a reality check about where we are and that we cannot expect instant progress under the new manager. I am happy to be patient and see how we progress from here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power n Glory
I didn't think AMN was getting done that badly but so many people have said it post game, maybe I have developed a blindspot with him!
His run forward was very positive and perfectly executed tackle late in the box stood out. Even when he was running back a few times he eventually thwarted the counter. I like that he's good on 1 v 1's, good in tight spaces, athletic, quick, has the recovery/repeat sprints thing going on pretty well bla bla bla and I think losing him is a massive blow.
I actually thought Mustafi and Sokratis were pretty good as was Bellerin. With the way the game was going we might as well have had Welbeck out wide as he wouldn't have completely gone missing from the game like Mhki. What Ozil tried didn't come off and he had too many misunderstandings with the rest of the attack, but that isn't quite the same as completely going missing. I think this game came a little too soon for him and on another day one of the things he did would have come off.
Seeing as all the best sides tend to employ the high press in some guise or another.....what really is the point in playing Xhaka in any of these games? I don't really know the point in starting him period. For the love of God, I really hope Torreira plays every last game till the season ends. I would have no problem seeing Guendouzi play the next game despite his faults because I think he'll learn and you can see he offers something.
Emery will have to be ruthless with his decisions over the coming months because I don’t think he’s going to get the time of day. I don’t like what I’ve just seen on AFTV from Lee and I was just listening to Arsecast and the report of how the fans reacted to the game also has me concerned. We have to try and shake off the negativity from what Wenger left behind. The only way to do that is for Emery to be ruthless and start the cull.
The performances from Xhaka, Ozil, Mkhitaryan and Ramsey were too reminiscent of what we saw under Wenger. He can’t persist with them. On the one hand we need to give the new coach time to get his ideas across but on the other hand, if he sticks it out with certain players for too long, he’ll never get the fans on board.
There were positives from the game. Bellerin looked better. The defensive line as whole looked better. Guendouzi looks fearless and despite the mistakes, was the best of the midfielders. Lacazette made an impact and the partnership with Aubameyang is something I look forwards to seeing. Torreira looks like he’ll press and get back. Looks like he may have a pass in him as well. A good ball over the top to Auba but unfortunately waved offside. There were positives from the game. Emery hooking Ramsey and Xhaka was a positive sign because he could at least see that these guys weren’t playing well.
The manager needs time and it’s gonna be tough for the fans, manager and players.
If Emery has not realised the depth of the problem he has inherited, it will likely be dawning on him now. We are so predictable and easy to beat. Sterling was gash at the WC. All the teams England faced know that you have to dispossess him outside the box. He gets in the box and all our numpties just freeze afraid to act. Its Wenger all over again. The only coach in world football who cannot instruct how to mark Robben. a 60 yr old Robben will still be able to score goals against a Wenger coached team, as they will not learn from a thousand repeated mistakes.
Anyway back to yesterday. i was hoping Sokratis would help us break the mould, shout at some of the Wenger dotards like Mustafi, who just watch whats unfolding before them.
Ramsey is not a 10, get rid. He cant be on the pitch at the same time as Ozil...you are then 2 men down
Ozil has no heart. I watched him closely yesterday, hoping for a new spark....Nothing. when he gets the ball in an attacking position, he always does this stupid pirouette, that takes 2 seconds to complete and only leaves him in the same position before he started. In the meantime the opposition players have had 2 secs to reposition themselves better. Invariably Ozil will just pass it square. He never moves the ball instinctively. Its as if the players do not learn anything in training that rubs of during game time. If he cant be coached, he needs to be let go....plenty teams in Turkey who will take him off our hands at subsidised wages
Mikhi, the same. too inoffensive
Why are we all so easy to dispossess of the ball, even at home?. City were much more aggressive, confident.
Cech....sorry. He needs to be dropped. Leno for the league and Cech for Europa, Martinez for CC.
The team that ended the game yesterday needs to be our starting 11 save for Cech.
We are in dire straits if Unai thinks yesterday, it was just a bad case of playing the champions. Major work needed.
To be fair to Lee he's right, we didn't back the manager in the summer, what we did is give him a bit and not really allow him to sign players who could help us compete.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power n Glory
He's right about needing a winger as well.
He's also correct about us being Arsenal and the fact we should be competing, I agree it will take time but his point was more about how much we spent in the summer and the players we brought in, I understand you disagree but for me you have to give a new manager full backing, you can't hedge your bets because the guy before was useless and wasted money left, right and centre, either you bring in a manager because you think he's the right man, or you bring him in because he's not going to question your decisions and will toe the link.
Also he says this wasn't their strongest side and this was a good time to play them, no De Bruyne, Kompany amongst others, we also played at home, barely any of our players played in the World Cup, many of their players came back last week whereas most of ours came back quite a while ago and should be prepared. Man City are far superior, but to be honest IMO I just don't think there was enough urgency or that players showed that they were keen to impress the manager.
He also compares us to Liverpool and he's right, they are no different to us, in fact we've had a stadium for years, they have ambition and back their manager (and did from the start), 150 million net this summer.
For me Emery has time but he has to do 2 things, 1 change things and 2 not blindly support players who aren't good enough, players like Xhaka shouldn't get countless games, if they don't cut it, you don't play them until they prove (if they can) they're hungry and can perform.
I was disappointed with the starting lineup yesterday, just felt it was too similar to Wengers, we need a complete change, Lacazette and Aubameyang worked in pre-season, Ok it's only friendlies but for me they can both score goals and it makes sense to play them both. Mistakes will happen, lets see if he learns from them.
Right or wrong, a lot has to change at Arsenal and that includes the mentality and attitude of the fans. We can’t be walking out on the first game of the season before the final whistle. It looks bad. Groaning and sarcastic applauds/chants for when Cech kicks it long isn’t of playing it short isn’t helpful at all. It’s the first day of the season where we are trying to set a foundation and get these players playing a certain way. We can’t abandon that idea at the first hurdle of trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
As said, it’s gonna be tough. Critical thought online and on the forums is fine, but at the stadium, I’d expect a lot better from the fans.
I don't get leaving early if you've made the effort and paid a fortune. Whenever I go to a match I stay slightly later than the final whistle to get my moneys worth if nothing else. It's not exactly cheap is it? The only time I can understand it is if it's an evening match and you might miss the last bus or something. I have a mate who is a season ticket holder and he doesn't get home until beyond 12 after an evening KO. He stays until the end though.
First day of a new era after an age of complaining about the last manager doing the same things again and again and half the stadium empties before the final whistle. Losing or not, show some solidarity and back the new manager and stay to the end, even if it’s just for one game. Most of the fans can’t even do that which is pretty sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goonermerree