BATE have defeated a English side only twice in the last 46 years.
Guess who has been on the losing side both times?
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BATE have defeated a English side only twice in the last 46 years.
Guess who has been on the losing side both times?
That is just more bullshit. You can't possibly say these players are inherently flawed because Wenger bought them. Plenty of "Wenger players" have come from successful sides or gone on to success elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Some of them aren't good enough to challenge, fine, but they're plenty good enough to be beating sides like BATE.
The accepted wisdom was that they had been allowed to underperform and Wenger wasn't able to motivate them, it's not unreasonable to expect a new manager to correct that and get more out of them.
Why does it take time? To challenge, sure. We're nowhere near that but if Wenger was as bad as you've claimed then surely any new manager would get more out of this lot.
There are plenty of examples of managers changing and not buying big and doing better than the previous incumbent.
Last night was the 100th game Ozil has missed for us.
So as good as 2 seasons worth of football.
We should do everything we can to get the Wolves manager, Nuno. Pay off Emery and his gang in May, How much would it cost ? 8m tops. He is the best manager out of the top 6. Next level without having to look for Zidane's phone number. Even with his own players I cant see Emery pushing us back into top 4.
We are 5 points better off so far. I guess that is improvement, but over 26 games it's not much.Quote:
Originally Posted by SMatthews
I was expecting a bit more, to be honest. I've not been enjoying the football the last few years. I expected with a new manager we'd be playing better football. For a time at the start of the season, I was.
There seemed to be real purpose while we were going forward, still a lot of wobbling at the back but remember the way we tore Leicester apart in the second half?
The idea of a manager who apparently actually studies the opposition and sets the team up to play against them and the way they play seemed like a step forward.
I agree about Solskjaer but a lot of people on here were claiming that it was Wenger dragging us down and "anyone" would do better. Anyone isn't doing that much better.
I think my main annoyance now is how similar recent games have been to last season. Expected pastings against big teams, embarrassing defeats, limping past sides we should be beating confidently.
And playing football I'm finding frustrating to watch.
Once we went 2-0 up I never felt we would lose to Huddersfield, we were certainly never hanging on. But it wasn't a convincing win like it could and should have been
We deserved to win but the gulf in class you should see between a team bottom of the league and one allegedly in the hunt for a top 4 finish wasn't really apparent.
Agree that the players don't get off scott free last night, I felt that under Wenger too. For all his failings the players have to take some responsibility.
It's not good enough all round and from the owner downwards there's so much incompetence in the club.
And, worse, Spurs are looking like we used to, going toe to toe with some of the best sides in Europe :sick:
A manager can make a whole lot of difference. We havent yet got the right man.
It took Liverpool 3 goes to find someone that could make them competitive again after Rafa Benitez.
It could be a while for us too.
That may be the issue. Maybe we just haven't found our "Klopp" yet. But the rhetoric on here over the last year was that any idiot could do better.
Apology accepted, everyone :cool:
Nah, Emery is still doing better than Wenger. 5 points, 5 fkg points:clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Five points is significant if you believe we have the 5th best squad in the league, as it means we are in much closer contention with the top four than we were at this stage last season. Without significant investment, we aren’t going to jump above the top 3 (whether it’s City, Liverpool, Spurs, or City, Liverpool, Utd), so that leaves us chasing fourth spot – which was the most realistic goal for us at the start of the season. We’re on course for that so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We were also never going to transform from one ingrained style of play into another within a single season. When you try to course correct something that has been in place for years, it is going to happen in fits and starts – which is what we’ve seen. We have to be realistic about that. There’s been enough moments so far this season for me to see what Emery wants to do. Whether he has the players to do it, or has the ability to get into a squad he wants, remains to be seen.
I also think we have to look at the Premier League in general. Is the standard of play in many games that high? Or are we still clinging onto an outdated image? These-high pressing games don’t lead to the most aesthetically pleasing games to watch at the best of times. Spurs don’t play great football. I’d suggest only City and Liverpool probably do.
No-one was going to arrive at the club and wave a wand to make things better. That’s why our form has been up and down. Those who thought anyone could do better than Wenger didn’t give it much thought. Especially with the issues off the pitch thrown in.
So far this season there has been one pasting against Liverpool. Agreed, that shouldn’t happen even once, but on the flip side, we’ve been more competitive against the top four than in recent years. A draw at home against Liverpool no-one expected, beating Spurs at home, a draw away to Utd (which we would’ve won if it wasn’t for clown defending) and taking full points against Chelsea at home.
Spurs I’m really not worried about. They won’t win a thing. Two vitally important players are leaving in the summer for not much money. They don’t have much money to spend due to the stadium (:lol:) They won’t be able to keep this up for much longer without investment. It’s annoying, and I can’t wait to see them crumble, but they can enjoy their moment in the sun while it lasts.
We’ll get past BATE into the last 16 but can’t afford another one like this again. I never thought we’d finish top 4, and am pleasantly surprised that we are right in the mix for it with a third of the season left. That’s more than enough to be optimistic about right now – once the stink of last night’s result fades away, at least.
Exactly - and look at Utd. Even when they found Klopp it took him ages to sort out the defence to make them title contenders. This is going to be a long, hard road. Especially with our owners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
You're way too sensible for this place.Quote:
Originally Posted by SMatthews
I was hoping for a challenge for the top 4 and I guess you have to say that Emery is delivering that so far. It's just feeling a bit of a slog right now. I miss going into games confident we'd win. At home I'm still confident in most games, away we are all over the shop. There have been flashes of improvement - not counting the Chelsea game, they're a mess, but the ones against Spurs and Liverpool at home, we were good in those games and that looked like some real improvement. I've mentioned the Leicester game where we took them apart in the second half. As I like to say, let's judge things at the end of the season. Right now I'm not particularly impressed with how things are going though.
I guess when you become an old bastard you just realise rarely do things go smoothly right away. It is a slog at times, but top four is all that matters right now. Home we're secure and while we're not exactly flying away from home, we're doing better than last season. We lost 11 times then, which was a joke. It's the small improvement we've made there that's probably kept us in touch with fourth, as our home form is probably pretty similar to last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I've no idea if Emery is the guy, but I don't think we can really tell until at least 18-24 months in. If we're still slogging it then, with a crap defence and generally treading water, then he'll have nowhere to hide.
I also think the fact there are 6 teams going for 4 spots opens the question up as to whether or not that is the minimum standard with which to judge a manager's performance. I mean, there are going to be two clubs a season missing out. Neither City or Utd will on a regular basis because of their money, so that leaves four going into two. Will that mean clubs regularly sacking managers every 2 years if they can't make it back in (including us)? It's a different landscape now compared to 5 years ago even. I'm not saying if that's right or wrong, but it feels pretty crazy if that turns out to be the case.
There is a picture of the Bate players getting stuck into burgers at Burker King at 8 am this morning.
We lost to a team who hasn’t played for 2 months and has burgers for breakfast.
We should have won yesterday, but the players weren't up for it, having said that Emery picked the wrong team again, Torreira should have been in (for the awful Xhaka who can't take a corner to save his life, his inability to take a corner and beat the first man is shocking) and Auba, we don't have a game at the weekend so there was no reason to save them. If we'd won this comfortably we could have rested a few in the return.
The Ozil situation continues as well, not that he would have made a difference yesterday.
They're not flawed because Wenger bought them,they were nevber any good when he bought them, he should have never bought them in the 1st place, but as always he thought he knew better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Yes of course they should be good enough to beat Bate, but a lot have got a critical flaw, lack of hunger/desire, these players have been around this environment where nothing is expected of them for years, they're been taught that it's OK not to be that bothered about losing, these aren't players who hate to lose, they're just not that bothered, Koscielny didn't event get the team to thank the away fans.
Perhaps Emerys strong point isn't motivating, but to be honest as I've said for years this bunch are a lost cause, we need a big clearout, I know you don't accept that but it's the truth, there's probably about 8 or 9 that should leave or be sold.
Hope they did the hippie crack and hoes after....Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
Eating the cows they were herding the day before.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
is that the Islamic version of Burger King?Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
ok, i know... :getcoat:
For fucks sakes, look at Emery's record. What about him screams great manager. He's coached long enough to know exactly what he is. Which is slightly above average.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
And what I've learnt a lot of these signings in the past couple of signing were "Analysis" signings. Which Wenger like most old coaches detest. Why in the fukk did you think Wenger wanted to get rid of Mustafi last year. Or sold Gabriel and had no time for Perez. Those weren't his signings.
There is something in that, but we have won 3 FA Cups in the last 6 years and while that trophy might not have the lustre it once did it's still a trophy worth winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
These are players used to winning trophies and I don't believe that anyone gets to this level without being highly competitive.
And as I said above some of our players have come from successful teams and others have gone on to successful teams.
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with them and even if Wenger did allow them to become a bit too comfortable being also-rans I don't believe it would take much to get them going again.
If we're going to compete with City and Liverpool then yes, a lot of work needs to be done. But I don't believe that we need a big clearout to improve.Quote:
I've said for years this bunch are a lost cause, we need a big clearout, I know you don't accept that but it's the truth, there's probably about 8 or 9 that should leave or be sold.
If Wenger was as bad as you claim then why can't a new manager get more out of them?
No-one gets rid of 9 players in a season, it would be stupid to - we don't have a sugar-daddy owner prepared to fund a huge spending-spree which would allow us to properly compete. Emery does need time to build a team and make this is own squad, but I am disappointed at how Wengery we've been looking recently.