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errm --- i am sure you will find that most managers and clubs do 'encourage' technical competence. It is a basic aspect of football; no? so why the issue with my original post? the game has moved on; no? If so our approach is fundamentally antiquated; no? does our approach need freshening up? yes, i think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hump
cheers
With the current bunch of players we have I don't think there is any other manager who would make any difference to anything... So, me personally thinks that AW should spend some money and be given one last season to prove we can win something, BUT if not next season, then get rid and bring in Van Basten (Manager) and Bergkamp (No.2).
that will mean at least 5-6 players coming in though; do you realistically see that happening, ITG? Wenger hasn't got the balls, and even if he does, he's too arrogant to do any such thing to suggest he tried and failed with a misguided philosophy.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishitaliangooner
I disagree. The squad has ability what they lack is a winning mentality Wenger hasn't been able to instill that in them, he panders to them and is far too soft. Fergie would sort this out imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishitaliangooner
Adebayor said it perfectly in an interview with Football Focus a few weeks ago, he said there is no way Mourinho would have lost the CC final and I think he's right.
He is going to have to now and he knows it... I seriously think that he is going to spend, he will strengthen up the backline and the midfield will consist of Wilshere, Nasri, Busquets and Song with Krkic and RvP up front. From what I read, Barcelona are offering us any player or two for Cesc apart from the main six eg: Messi, Villa, Pique, Valdes, Xavi and Iniesta in a swap for Cesc... Now out of the players available for us to pinch, I would make it the two in the line up...Quote:
Originally Posted by budesonide
I reckon next seasons line-up will be like this:
Schesny
Sagna
Vermaelen
Samba
Gibbs
Nasri
Busquets
Wilshere
Walcott
RvP
Krkic
Thats my opinion. We will make signings...
IdemQuote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
No way will Barcelona give us Busquets in part exchange for Cesc. He's one of the best DMs in the world and his one-touch passing is fantastic.
Also, I'd stop watching football if that parasitic cunt joined us, as good as a player he is, I hope he dies.
Bojan is their Bendtner/Chamakh but great at it with 38 goals in 69 starts. He'll go to Valencia or Villarreal if he wants to leave, which I don't think he does.
If you forget about mentality for a second, we all know that is our biggest problem, but I'd also question his tactical ability as manager now. How many times has his spoken about the need to shore up the defence but an improvement is never seen in this area, we arguably get worse. We're no better off now than we were 5 years ago and still have a dreadful inability to defend set pieces.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wengerbabies
My thoughts exactly, will be interesting to see the final results of this poll compared with the last one.
Why wait? Wenger has had 6 seasons to sort it out and has been found wanting. If we get a new manager in, he can sell Fabregas and use that money to reinvest in the squad. If we stick with Wenger, he will waste any Fabregas transfer money by giving Denilson and Bendtner 100,000 a week wages to make them stay!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by irishitaliangooner
He will then complain about a lack of funds and go bargain basement shopping again in Ligue1.
I lost faith in Wenger last summer. Back then I thought, we should give him one last season. There is no goodwill left. He has to go.
No. Spolit children the lot of you.
If it was to be any midfielder they give us, it'd probably be Keita. I'd be ok with that actually, assuming he is there in place of Diaby.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishitaliangooner
I "literally" couldnt disagree with that any more than i do, there is nothing wrong with the players physically, technically, and ability wise, we have some brilliant if not world class players. Even the players who get vilified on here are good enough for 85% of the otehr top flight teams around Europe and we have some genuine prospects that will just get better and better.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishitaliangooner
What we dont have currently is a tactic set that makes the best use of what we have and we dont pay enough attention to the fundamentals of the game that otehr teams with far less ability do so well. With more focus on set pieces, defensive set up, communication, keeping it simple at times and paying attention in defence we would be at least 10-15 points better off a season.
I think that's unfair. We as Arsenal fans have been spoilt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obiwan Kenobinil
And some of the kneejerking on here...well, the old place, was ridiculous.
But I don't think people are being unreasonable. It's been 6 years without a trophy. Now if you're a Newcastle fan then to complain about that would be stupid but we're not, we're Arsenal fans and our club has a rich history of success. There is a reasonable expectation of continued success given our history and current resources. And Wenger has raised our level and our expectations further still. He has done brilliantly to keep us at this level amid the stadium move and in an era of billionaire owners. But given that he has kept us at this level (perennial top 4 finishes, last 16 and better of the CL, often getting to the latter stages of other cup competitions) surely expecting us to go and win one here and there is reasonable.
There are some people who were whining after 2 or 3 trophyless seasons. Those people were acting like spoilt brats IMO. But with every year that goes by, every collapse, every Cup final failure, every year where the same flaws are not addressed and stop us from fulfiling our potential, the number of people who think Wenger's best years are behind him grows.
It's not the lack of trophies ffs.
It's the constant refusal to correct basic errors. It's not necessarily the team, as they're clearly talented players. It's Wenger's refusal to make the basic changes needed IN ORDER for us to be where we could and should be....challenging until the end of the season for silverware.
There's no 100% definite that we'd win a trophy, but we as fans need to see that he is addressing the obvious issues which fuck us every season. And he refuses. So what are we supposed to do?? Accept it??
How spoilt of us to demand a competent defence. :angry:
OK, you're right. I mentioned trophies because that's a reasonable expectation for a squad this good.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
But yes, the thing that has really made people snap is the basic errors which we KEEP making which are not being addressed despite Wenger quite openly admitting that there are problems. And they're not problems which would cost much to fix. Organising the defence so it doesn't keep conceding stupid goals from set pieces/long, straight balls. It's basic stuff.
The end result is no trophies and people would be fine with that if this was a mid-table squad who we felt were fighting for every point and doing their best, but they're not, they're a very talented squad who have such a weak mentality and poor defensive organisation that they'll never win anything despite clearly being good enough to.
Basically I need a squad I can believe in again.
And that wont happen with wenger at the helm. The system is broken. His last few captains going back to vieira's last year with us shows that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)
Spot on, and we want our football back, decent entertaining attacking football instead of the shit currently being served up. Surely entertainment (and I don't mean being a source of entertainment for opposing fans who laugh their arses off at us) has to figure in there or what's the point?Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
Yes, Wenger should be replaced as manager. He said he was building a team for the future back in 2006, around the time when he sold many of the players who had won us a succession of trophies in the previous few years, including 2 leagues and 3 FA Cups.
Well, here we are 5 years later, and we have completely stagnated. It is manifest that Wenger does not have the answers to our problems, as he keeps repeating the tired old bullshit that he's been coming out with for the last 5 years. If only we had a bit of luck, he says, if only UEFA's financial fair play regulations were in place we would be able to win and compete on a "fair" basis against teams like Chelsea and Man City. This is complete smoke and mirrors tactics from Wenger, who fails to acknowledge either to himself or the fans that there are fundamental failings with this squad of players and his management style (including tactics), which have been evident for very many years, much before City were taken over.
If we continue to persevere with Wenger's discredited approach, we're going to continue to regress, especially as teams like Liverpool, City, Tottenham are looking to strengthen their squads and have real ambitions, while Wenger hasn't accepted that his fundamental approach is flawed, meaning he's only really going to make cosmetic changes in the summer, which won't be anywhere near radical enough to break this cycle of underachievement.
I agree with you on that but not about the people that were 'moaning' after two or three throphyless seasons. Was there some sort of threshold to when it was acceptable to start calling out the mistakes and problems? I don't think there should be. Obviously there are some OTT posts as usual but I remember a few good threads pinpointing specific problems ages ago and now we have a situation where it's just snowballed into a bigger a problem and because it's happened so often, people have finally lost their patients.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)
Zimm used to get ripped on here. He was calling things early. Was he moaning for the sake of it or could he see serious problems? I'd say the latter. Remember the long Denilson debates and all the stat nonsense? Look now, after all that time wasted playing him in the first team, we've sacrificed points, time, even players just to accommodate him and now it looks like a huge waste of time because he can't even get into the first team yet he has the nerve to say he wants to leave because he's a 'winner'. It was said ages ago that we need players like Song and Jack playing in the middle, Denilson didn't offer much on attack or defence. Now look look what's been concluded after 3 seasons. He's not good enough.
On the old site there were debates about the youth system, defence, the types of players we need to bring in, Wenger's team selection, his poor tactics and subs....most of this stuff was said 2-3 seasons ago. It's an 'I told you so' moment, I'm afraid. (Where the heck are the smilies?) I'd say the penny has finally dropped but it's a damn shame it's come to this. I just hope come next season, Wenger shuts us all up. I don't look forwards to watching Arsenal anymore and that's unusual. He has to pull it together.
I voted yes, we need to replace him but I want to see what he does next season. If he goes, the board need to do it properly and line up a coach before he leaves.
:gp:
It's funny how some of the biggest detractors of Wenger in this thread were slaughtering Zimm 2-3 years ago.
He needs to go! Not because he doesnt spend money. Its because he doesnt rectify the obvious problems.
Why is our attacking play so slow and boring? What happened to the football that was played when he came?
Why dont our strikers ever get into the box?
Why are players like Bendtner and Chakma played out of position?
When will our defense learn to defend? Why are we one of the weakest at defending set pieces for the last few seasons?
Why cant we get a defensive coach when we are so weak at defending? Surely it wouldnt cost us a mountain to get a defensive coach.
Why do we always seem to roll off and die in the last 3-4 months of a season?
Why do the players not seem to give a fuck about the club? Watching the cunts play the CC final was a joke.. it was a final after many years, chance of winning a trophy and the players got off the block as if they were playing a charity match! We lost to a team that got relegated.. that says it all really!
Why does he let go off Senior players so easily? In fact not bringing Vieira back was a huge mistake IMO. Agree he has no legs and is not the same player but a player like him can have a huge impact in the dressing room. Surely an educated man like AW should know the effect it would have in the dressing room.
These problems are not money related. They are just tactics or training ground stuff which AW is doing wrong for the last 4-5 seasons running.. If we were losing because the players gave a fuck but we just cannot compete with the City's and Chelsea's, thats a different thing. We have a very talented squad but we just dont have the heart or character of winners. That unfortunately stems from the manager.
Boss, 2-3 years ago, it would have been unfair to be critical of Wenger to the extent we are now. It was an entirely different scenario where there were restrictions on finance as there was huge uncertainty over the Highbury Square development given the impending global financial collapse. The Club had also just completed the largest capital expenditure project any football club has ever taken on in the history of the game - a project largely made possible as a result of his work.
You could argue that Wenger managed this process incredibly well, but adapted to managing that situation so well, that he has become too immersed in it and has failed to adapt to the changing circumstances we see today.
As others have no doubt mentioned, i want Wenger gone cos he doesnt solve the obvious problems we have. He doesnt even try to. The trophyless years i can handle, i understand we arent win going to win trophies all the time and we'll have barren runs. Thats football but that does not mean i dont want us to win trophies and when you get so close to trophies and then fail due to the obvious problems then that is all down to Wenger.
Can anyone see him changing? No neither can i. Hence we need a change.
He seems to think the fans want him to spend £50m on one player to justify his BS about not spending money. We'd rather he spend £50m on 4 or 5 players to improve the squad. He completely failed at his job last summer and should have gone then but our inept board gave him a new contract which was the start of our downfall this season.
This is Wengers biggest summer of his career. If he fails again then he has to walk on September 1st or be pushed out. The tide is turning, the fans are growing restless
I don't agree with this, it's not money that stopped him solving problem areas, it was several things:Quote:
Originally Posted by GB.
a) His blind belief that the young players had it in them
b) Poor coaching, seemingly little or no work on problems
c) Signing the wrong players, signed for the way they could fit into his passing style rather than our need
It's easy to blame money, but at the end of the day even then he had many overpaid young players who had achieved nothing, a more rounded approach might have yielded better results.
IMO even then there was a general lack of hunger and desire in the team as well as no leadership.
I'm not blaming money. I'm pointing out the situation as it was then and how the environment is completely different now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsMe
Three years ago, I'd say our postion was almost as well as could have been expected given what I mentioned earlier. It is the failure to move on from that position since that gives rise to criticism.
Ok fair enough, I put it down to a flaw in his methods rather than us not being able to compete.Quote:
Originally Posted by GB.
The problem now as it was then was his rigid policies and ways, nothings changed really it's just that we're a few years further down the line.
Yeah, I think his methods played a part, but they may also have been part of the reason we maintained our position back then - and for me, back then, maintaining our position while there was significant uncertainty at the time was the key objective. The Highbury Square and Queensland Rad developments cast a huge shadow over everything at the Club and there was no telling how much further the financial climate could have deteriorated.
Thankfully those fears were not realised, but the strategy that was right for the time has not changed to reflect the new reality, and that in my view as far as the playing side goes, is Wenger's fault. He seems totally unwilling to change and I find that incredibly frustrating from a man who brought so much success as a result of the changes he initially brought to the Club.
We probably had better and more experienced players in the squad back then. We still had the same sort of problems. We could beat the big teams but would buckle against the small teams. Wenger probably spent more money back then as well. We bought Ade, Theo and Diaby in one window. We bought Rosicky and Gallas in another with Baptista on loan and those decisions were made during times of uncertainty and when the debt was massive.
Finances should be left out of this one. We're seeing the same mistakes we made seasons ago happen against the same teams now but rolled into one season.