09-10 was also with Vermaelen the guy he thinks will make all the difference.
Decent defender but isn't going to make us much more solid though.
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09-10 was also with Vermaelen the guy he thinks will make all the difference.
Decent defender but isn't going to make us much more solid though.
Mummy: Well your little brother has a friend and he keeps on giving him lots and lots of money to buy that quality foodQuote:
Originally Posted by Japan Shaking All Over
AW: Mummy....we live in a society where you have to respect the rules, I believe in only spending some of the pocket money you give me for washing up, I prefer to grow my own food and develop it than buy it
Mummy: Yes but since your brother has been spending lots of money on food you have not spent any, would you like me to give you more money, the same amount as your little brother?
AW: If you gave me loads of money I would give it straight back to you
:haha:
See? This is much better than constant moaning and abusing.
Well, no. He's got to do something about it too. And if he doesn't and we're conceding as regularly from set pieces as we have been then I'll be as pissed off as anyone. But he HAS acknowledged it's a problem. This is just another example where Wenger's said something you agree with but you're taking an opportunity to have another moan.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsMe
Not really, he's showing no inclination to do anything about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)
He's basically said we're fine defensively, although we have some problems in the air because we get more exposed since we're more offensive, but that Vermaelen who didn't play last year is back.
He says we have to improve but that's obvious, I don't see how we will without new players however.
Anyone can say they need to get better, but if they don't do the necessary they don't. It's not only set pieces that are the problem either, but he seems to think we have one of the best defences and that's our only problem.
Good post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)
So you agree with what he says. Good.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsMe
As for new players, IMO our defensive players are decent enough, they just need better organisation especially at set pieces which is what Wenger's said. And you've agreed.
Good postQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)
If Wenger won't change his philosophy or personnel, then how is this change going to come about? Wenger couldn't even coach Toure, Senderos and Gallas to work as a unit and those guys are better than the defenders we have now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)
We said we needed a radical change this summer and we're hearing more of the same stuff and you seem to be accepting it as if it's the right way to go. How are we going to be any better next season if we continue on this way?
Good postQuote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
We need better defensive coaching and they need to work on set piece situations (both offensively and defensively) more in training. Whether that will happen...well, I'm not confident but he has acknowledged it's a problem so we'll see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Who said we needed a radical change this summer? Others may have said that but I don't think we do. Better defensive organisation and some balls and we're pretty much there.
Wenger never fails to acknowledge where we go wrong but at the same time when he is faced with criticism of the issue in discussion, he normally comes out with sugar coated comments like these. Possibly because he has decided to put faith in the flops again or he cannot find/afford outside improvements, so I personally find these comments worrying but unsurprising. We geared up for a summer of change but I don't believe anything of that sort will happen, hopefully I'm wrong.
Oh please Wenger, not conceding goals from open play has'nt nothing to do with the defense. It's the fact that they keep possession better than any other team in the league. Lets get real whenever their opponents have any little spell of possession it's calamity back their, and Vermaelan being back makes no difference, he's just an average defender who has manager to fool people with his "desire" and hollywood tackles.
Totally agree, and if we lose Cesc and Nasri then there will be even more pressure on the defence. As we know, they won't be able to handle it, they never can. As for the current goons we have at the back, good players? He must be insane, apart from TV who is an average to above average defender based on 1 year's work (I think we give him more credit because his attitude is head and shoulders above most of the others) the rest are shite. They demonstrated how shite they are when the chips were down, they completely collapsed - particularly Djourou who ended the season playing like a schoolboy. If we go in with this lot again then the season ends for us when the first match kicks off. Sure, we'll have to go through the motions of 50 odd games but it's a certain bet there won't be anything to show for it. I struggle to think of a reason why Wenger is so against having a solid defence.Quote:
Originally Posted by hobson's choice
This isn't a problem exclusive to last season. Wenger said we had a problem with set pieces a while back when we had Toure and Gallas playing. You don't think we've been practicing since then? That season he said he thought height was the problem and brought on TV, not exactly the tallest defender, but we still had defensive problems and were getting opened up. Last season with the new additions was no different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)
Good coaching can sort this out but we've had many attempts to sort this and Wenger seems to think it's a concentration and psychological problem rather than technical because he thinks the players are good enough. He has to change his coaching methods or coaching staff but there is no evidence of that happening especially with his comments about being an offensive side. We've had years of practice and the problems still persists. Gallas, Toure and Senderos played alongside better players and actually had experience of winning cup finals and grinding out results to win titles but we couldn't get them working as a solid unit either.
Without an outside influence stepping in to look at the way we defend, I can't see much changing. When Adams and Keown were getting old and after we had done our first double under Wenger, we had defensive problems with set pieces and Wenger bought rubbish like Stepanovs. When we bought Campbell, we won the title in his first season and we looked solid on defence again. Wenger should buy and English defender because we've never been successful under him without one.
Arsene Wenger, Arsenal manager and WUMming legendQuote:
Originally Posted by LDG
Ok so it's another pat on the back for Wenger from you for coming out with some hollow words then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)
Fair enough, IMO actions speak louder than work, we need new defenders and a decent coach...this defence lacks the necessary quality and leadership.
You say I give Wenger a hard time, but you do the opposite constantly finding reasons to excuse his actions and inability to address problem issues. At the end of last season you had no choice but to admit he'd blown it, because let's face it saying anything would have looked ridiculous.
interesting infoQuote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
http://www.soccerblog.com/2011/06/he...ssarily-re.htmQuote:
Kolo Toure is a good example. In his last season (2008-09) at Arsenal, the side conceded just 12 set piece goals as Toure cleared the ball 129 times, more than any player in the present squad. With Sol Campbell as partner in 2006, the Gunners only gave up 9. Campbell was already 30 years old and Toure five years less. This segues us to crucial aspect of set piece defending - it is a collective effort where each trusts the other to stick to their assignment. In the NFL defensive breakdowns are aptly called "blown coverage". Much of Arsenal's woes can be pointed to someone who forgot to do their job.
The best in the business Nemanja Vidic and Rio Ferdinand have played five seasons together with the former close to 30 and his partner two years older. After this time spent together they epitomize discipline and focus.
Sticking Thomas Vermaelen with a raw 6' 6" centre back is not going to solve matters. Going to the French Ligue for a cut rate bargain is not going to solve the problem of experience and the learning curve. What you need is someone who gives you all these qualities in one package and proven themselves at the highest level. That someone should be a Brede Hangeland type with stats like 424 headed clearances topping the league. Fulham conceded just 10 set piece goals, the fewest in the league. That 13 goal difference could have been the difference between 4th place and the title. Therein lies the solution.
yet he did say in 2008
Quote:
I believe that we have more a size problem than quality in our defending problem,' 'Wenger said. 'Our centre backs are not very tall. I don't know what we can do. It's not only centre backs who defend. As a team we are a bit short.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...#ixzz1S9yLM5Cr
No. He's just said what's obvious. He doesn't deserve huge credit for that, but he doesn't deserve criticism either.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsMe
I agree with what he said, seems like you do too.
Nope. Again, I've quite clearly said he should have been sacked for last season's collapse. But I'm not going to keep having digs at him when I agree with that he says.Quote:
You say I give Wenger a hard time, but you do the opposite constantly finding reasons to excuse his actions and inability to address problem issues
If you think coaching can sort out the problem (as do I) then you surely think the players are good enough too (as do I).Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Whether he'll do anything about it this time....*sigh*, well I'm not holding my breath.
But I'm not going to take another opportunity to have a pop at him when I basically agree with what he says, that's just silly.
Coaching won't address our height issues though, we need some bigger defenders....I'd also say we need some leadership back there.
I don't think the current group are good enough personally and that's discounting the fact we now have a crock at full back as well, a player who spend most of his time on the treatment table and isn't great at defending when he doesn't.
The issue I have with all of this is Wenger doesn't seem capable of fixing the defensive problems. If he's not personally capable fine, but he should at least be looking to hire someone who is capable. I'm sure there are top class defensive coaches out there who would like the challenge.
Wenger's word mean nothing, actions speak louder than words.
Exactly, which is the point Letters keeps missing.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
Wenger has had years to whip these guys into shape and if he could coach defence and hasn't been able to. What's so different about this year compared to the days when we had Kolo, Gallas, Senderos, Djourou and Silvestre? When Sol Campbell lost his form and focus, Wenger couldn't get him back and track and we've been suffering ever since. A fresh injection has to come from somwhere. More practice won't change anything because we've been down this road before and tried the exact same thing.
If we won't sign a player that can organise a defence, then I hope we sign a defensive coach.
Not just defenders, the entire team needs a little more height imo, it's no good having 4 giants when everyone else is a midget, everyone's taller than Clichy though so him going is a good start anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsMe
I've said several times I'm skeptical as to whether he'll be able to fix the defensive problems. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
But I'm not going to criticise him for acknowledging it's a problem area when I agree with him. That would be silly.
The point is he's talked the same shite in the past but done fuck all about it.
Wenger talks the talk but is nowhere near walking the walk.
He's getting criticised for not doing anything, it's not like our defence suddenly sucks, it's been in a mess for around 4-5 seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)
I don't think folks would even criticise him if he held his hands up and acknowledged their was an issue, but whilst he does acknowledge their is a problem he throws in stuff about us not conceeding in open play, who cares, the stats tell us our defence suck..it doesn't matter how we conceed, we conceed period.
Arsene made the same mistakes with the Goalkeeping position holding a defiant stance, at one point he was even stating that Almunia was World Class! :lol:
That's because you read the quotes and can't see the pattern. You never have. Some people can. There is a reason for all the 'moaning'. You keep going on about other posters but maybe you should take a back seat and just listen to the arguments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)
Yep because height has been a problem with Barcelona for years ;)
how high they dive has been yes
my concern is the mentality of the team when the chips are down, a goal behind with the clock ticking or frustration at a team playing with 10 men behind the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Vela
we seem to just unravel and set-pieces? Lord have mercy, Ive seen headless chickens with more of an idea where they are
Wenger goes on about his team being young and the counter is that it is the same group that have been playing together for a while now. . . .IMO they are still young, well mentally at least, this is because Wenger refuses to ween them off the diet of false praise and equally empty forecasts that it is going to come good in the end.
What these kids need is a good dose of reality! God you would have thought that after each reoccurring collapse that they would have had enough doses already and be street wise to what to do, when the likes of Blackburn and Sunderland come to town, but no that does not seem to be the case because Mother Wenger finds another to blame, refs and the like. . . .he lets the same players start and fuck again, and adds its OK
we are good enough!
What he needs to do is come down with fire and brimstone, I mean 6 years and no success, surely even Charlie the Gooners boss would have not let that long go!
The playets get infected with Wengers words and dotting and become weak!
What we need, may be a bit of height but we also need a bit of courage, a bit if it aint over till its over. . . .
this why I think Samba would be good for us/Cahill too. . .OK, Samba may not be world class but I think we are a few trophyless seasons short of being able to attract world class these days
Samba has been in situation were he has had to fight for his wage, fight week in week out to keep his team up, knows what the smell of blood both his own and that of others. . . And most of all was a success doing so!
He has the qualities that will show our bunch what is needed and will improve playing with more gifted players because even though Blackburn had our number we are still far better than them
this is what I hope Wenger addresses
Sorry I have written so much on my phone, not sure what the topic is anymire, hope I havent gone too off subject
Pretty much, him acknowledging something these days means very little as two weeks later his stance has changed, then when the time comes he hasn't addressed the issues at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss
He's full of talk but no actions.
I despise Wenger