I can think of quite a lot of reasons why he should follow his manager's instructions.
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I can think of quite a lot of reasons why he should follow his manager's instructions.
Yeah but I didn't say Ozil should run the club's finances. I said he's entitled to know how the club is going to spend his money had he agreed to a pay cut. And he is. They could be buying yachts or ranches for all he knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
Ozil is clearly content to Bogarde his way out of the club, talent is a waste of time with an attitude like that.
You can't really say we've missed him since we've adopted pubbing our way to victories.
Look I’m in no way privy to what is going on with Özil and the club. From what we have seen in the media and some of it might be deliberately planted...I dunno. But the feeling amongst the past 3 managers (Emery, Freddie & Arteta) is that Özil doesn’t put in a shift, be it in training or in matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Ozil is without doubt a supremely talented player and one of the best of his generation, when he’s on it he is a world class player, but his last 3 managers have felt he is not on it and left him out.
Ozil is finished at Arsenal, his career is done here, it might be done completely.
Him posting on insta about the mascot was ridiculous, yes we all know there are problems between Özil and the club.
I think the club firing the mascot was far more ridiculous. It's tone deaf. As football executives and players battle about their share of billions in TV deals and contracts - an extra million here, a lost million there, a swelling trove of millions or the tragedy of a mere heap of millions when it could have been a mountain - the fucking mascot of 27 years gets sacked. Switches me off to the club even more than I already was. And football in general. I really can't think of a single person at that club, or any, to be admired. Can you?
Tell me, who is it the kids are supposed to be looking up to today? Is there one name from all of them?
Auba - he's always smiling, always working for the team, always scoring goals, and re-signed to a club that isn't in the CL, thus harming his own career to be at a club he really likes
and yes yes he gets paid money - all footballers do, get with the programme
What I don't get with Gunnersaurus, may he rest in peace, is why he seemed to be in a second round of redundancies that only included him? Why not just sneak it in with everyone else at the start of the summer? At least that way you could have argued that, collectively, it added up to a saving of a couple of mil - now it just looks like a really petty move to save a poxy 30k.
Maybe he just got overlooked because he's in an obscure department of one or something?
I don't agree with Ozil sitting there and taking the money, however it's clear there some sort of issue and that he feels poorly treated by the the club as he's insisted he's not leaving and why should he he's under contract, he doesn't have to.
I also personally don't like Artetas player management, there was Martinelli of course who he was reluctant to play until he had little choice, he then produced some goals and very good displays and couldn't then be dropped, then lockdown happened and low and behold he's dropped again and then he gets injured.
The there's Pepe who cost us a lot of money and yet plays a bit part role, even though he's a goal threat.
Then there's Mustafi who he insisted on playing for a while and Luiz who he resigned despite his costly errors last season, it doesn't end there either now we have Saliba, a guy good enough to play in Ligue 1 where he was very highly rated (Spurs wanted him to) and is apparently very good indeed and cost us 30 million. Apparently he's not even good enough for the League cup or EL, but players like Holding, Luiz and Mustafi are, it's a shocker to be honest. Let's not forget his like for Xhaka either or the way he cut Guendouzi out completely.
Ozil doesn't play but then Arsenal is willing to accept a pay cut if it protects jobs (pretty admirable and clever if you ask me), he clearly doesn't trust the club, can't blame him either, the got rid of a number of low paid employees, then to add insult to injury, sack Gunnersaurus who had been there for 27 years and not long after pay Atletico 45 million (+agent fees and wages) to sign Partey.
Pretty low if you ask me, they could have even given Partey 249k a week instead of 250k a week and kept Gunnersaurus, Ozil then offers to pay the guys wage out of his salary (again pretty admirable) and the club then say "oh, he'll come back when fans come back" because they realised how bad they looked.
I don't agree with Ozil about sitting there and not playing as I said, but he was 100% in the right in the way he negotiated the possible pay cut and with what he offered to do for Gunnersaurus.
What's Gunnersaurus's salary? A day of Ozil's pay a year tops? I think he might have just have muddled through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
IMO he did that as a pop at the club.
I don't blame Ozil entirely for this mess, there's definitely blame on both sides.
good summary, agree with all that :gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Ozil was paid an 8m loyalty bonus last month. :lol:
Might help explain why he wanted to stick around for his final year. What an utter waste of money, who would have known how much of a disaster giving him this contract would turn out to be.
I actually cant remember a time in my life when I wasnt talking about Mesut Özil any more.
anyone with a brain who knew you shouldn't just throw money at people - it was all just because Sanchez was sold and we didn't want to be seen to be losing two prime assets in one go, but we didn't need to pay him so much or for so longQuote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Is that it now? The last transfusion? Or is this the contract that keeps on giving?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
How have we agreed to sign a contract that awards bonuses to players that aren't playing? Loyalty? So they canned Gunnersaurus after 27 years and paid Ozil a "loyalty" bonus? No wonder he wanted to give some of the money back. I bet even he can't believe how shitty that contract is.
I'd forgotten about that but yeah, you're right. We threw trucks full of money at him so he didn't leave in the same window as Sanchez.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
:doh:
It was a bonus written into the contract to reward him for seeing it out. Obviously the guys who gave him the deal felt like Ozil was going to be the cornerstone of this team for years to come.
Goes without saying the contract has aged horribly. :lol:
I think he also gets "performance" bonuses if he "plays" on top of his "basic" £18.2m "salary" and "loyalty" bonuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
At least we know how the offer to pay Gunnersaurus's salary* is being funded now.
*For as long as Özil is still employed by Arsenal FC.
There's nothing like the satisfaction of a hard day's work and pay well earned.
Well he just received a 8million pound bonus, what do you think he should do with that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
:haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
What's ridiculous about sacking someone who is surplus to requirements right now? Or do you think the club should just pay the mascot for doing sweet FA? I mean they pay millions out to Ozil for doing sweet FA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Do I admire anybody at the club? Well I admire Arteta for taking on the mess of a job and doing a pretty good job of it so far. I admire the likes of Auba, Saka and Ceballos for putting in good quality performances on a regular basis. I admire Maitland-Niles for his improvement.
The kids should be looking up to players like Saka, he's a great role model for young aspiring kids who want to make it at Arsenal and break into the National team No?
Saka is definitely on the right path, working his way through the ranks. If all continues to plan he'll be a key player at Arsenal. Of course he's getting paid a fortune at his tender age to do it. And why not? Everyone else is. But whether every player being paid for success before they actually achieve it is something worth looking up to, I'm not so sure. Football, and everyone in it, has this whiff that's not entirely pleasant. A parade of excess. If we hadn't shelled out big on Saka's contract demands he'd have been off in a flash to somebody who would. We paid. He stayed. Admirable? By today's standard, perhaps. If 10 years down the road he's still here, having put in the performances, then we're talking. That'll be somebody to admire.
I'd say he's a pretty key player already, he racked up a lot of assists and a few important goals last season, he's played at a very high level in multiple positions too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Yes he gets paid a fortune to PLAY football.
Saka doesn't need to stick around at Arsenal to be admired, players can be admired if they carve out decent and hardworking careers at multiple clubs, as long as their conduct is above board then I don't see an issue with it.
P.S. Everybody has a price and a worth, whether it is in Football or Business, if you got offered a higher salary elsewhere I am pretty sure you would be off to that job too....why should it be any different for footballers?
Discussing the merits of whether he would or wouldn't have stayed is a waste of time because he signed the ting and he plays for us.
That's why I didn't want Jack or Ramsey to go. For me, they are probably the last 2 Arsenal players who played for us. Hopefully Saka will be the next but we'll have to wait a while to see. AMN. Willock. Eddie. They all have a chance to carve out a place in club history rather than be travellers passing through. If you compare football before TV money came to football today, I can't see much that's positive. The fans have become less relevant as each year passes. It used to be about the link between the fans and the players, those were the names kids aspired and would grow up with. I was hoping corona might crash these clubs and players back to earth but, as recent on demand greed has shown, it's business as usual.
Nah. I can't get too excited about a league where even the fans now accept and understand it's all about the money and everything else only comes once that money is slapped down.
So are you saying that the player has to be british to be admired? Many foreign players have had long careers with us, do they not count?Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Society in general is f*cked, capitalism, social media, narcissist leaders....football is just part of society.
No. I never mentioned British. WTF? They're the last two who were here for a significant amount of time and made an impact, Theo too, I suppose. The last group you could sort of say was a settled team. Since then it has been player merry-go-round. Maybe Arteta will fix that, but I don't think football works that way any more.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
However, as you mentioned it, I do think there should be many more British and many more local players in every team. But the money won't allow that either, because there's so much sloshing around the clubs can shop all over the world and, supposedly, pick the cream of the crop. I don't see it in the boring modern game tbh. And British players cost a fortune too now, even if they can't kick a ball.
The money has gone through the roof, the culture and entertainment and the sportsmanship has been the cost. I don't blame any player for being a mercenary in a league filled with mercenaries. It would be stupid not to take it if you can get it. But that doesn't make the whole thing worthy of admiration.
You only listed British players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Bellerin has been here an age, as had Martinez. Prior to that Giroud, Kos, Monreal, Sagna etc
This isn't just related to football, it's society in general, companies all over the world both corporate and at a smaller scale hire people from all over the world.
Football isn't the root of all evil in this cold capitalist world, it's part of the problem.
I didn't say that football is the root of all evil. I said it's hardly something kids can look up to and admire. I listed a couple of notable players who were here from a young age and grew up with the club. And then Theo. Ramsey and Theo chose Arsenal when they had arguably better options for their first significant move. Jack was the closest we got to Adams. People really are hair trigger over this identity politics stuff these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
That's your opinion and I don't agree with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
No idea what you are talking about with this identity politics, I explained why I said what I said.
The love of football is the root of all evil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
(That is an excellent Biblical joke, although if I have to explain it, not so much)
That's fine, we don't agree. I checked with Boris and it's still allowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
GreatQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I personally think that's exactly what we should be doing in this terrible time. We're a club owned by a billionaire, it's a drop in the ocean for him and morally it's the right thing to do, Gunnersaurus is a victim of circumstances and after 27 years of service he deserves better, the decision is made all the more ridiculous when we go out and spend 45 million not long after getting rid of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
No excuse for me, it's a nasty thing to do by a club who care about one thing and one thing only, that's not the right way to run a company IMO, you can make money without stamping on the little man inthe process, this club has shown it's true colours with the redundancies and it's actions, everything is about money and it's no surprise we're failures on the pitch.
I'm not sure there's anyone we should admire, Arteta got a job at a big club (no other big club would have touched him let's be honest), earning big money, he'd have been crazy to turn it down so it's wasn't a hard decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
As for the others, that's what they're paid for, paid handsomely for without having done much in many cases, it's not like it was 20-30 years ago where people played for the love of game, it's a different time when money talks.
There's nothing to admire in modern football IMO.
:(
A Zim post I pretty much entirely agree with.
It’s the end times.
Last season's home shirt was pretty goodQuote:
Originally Posted by Özim
:lol: True, tbfQuote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Gunnersaurus was made redundant, not sacked, there is a difference. Are you privy to the redundancy pay out he got? I am certainly not and it's why I have not joined in with the "Arsenal are so mean getting rid of people like this", moreover, they have released him temporarily until the COVID situation is sorted out...Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/11/paul-...urus-13403985/
The decision isn't ridiculous and why you and others are comparing us temporarily relieving the club mascot against signing a new player is beyond me. What do you suggest we do? Not invest in the team? Would you be happy with that if it meant we kept on certain staff paying them wages to sit at home? I don't even understand why they are linked...it makes no sense.
The point I was making about Arteta is admiring the work he has done so far given the difficult circumstances that have surrounded him taking on his first ever managerial job, money again has nothing to do with it. It's the personal circumstances and decisions he has made that I admire.
I don't admire the financial side of football at all so I get where you are coming from with that, but I also don't admire the financial side of many things these days so I term it as a problem with society, capitalism, everything has a price.
You could certainly make the argument that it makes business sense to stop paying certain staff - including Gunnersaurus - while for no fault of the club or the staff they can’t do their jobs right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
So as a purely business decision it does make sense. But the furlough scheme is still open. Isn’t that an option? And why weren’t the playing staff furloughed? They weren’t able to do their jobs for months either. And is it really a choice between keeping those staff and strengthening the team?
How much could Gunnersaurus have been on? The optics of making Gunnersaurus redundant on the same day they activated Partey’s £45m release clause aren’t good.
It just feeds into the increasing disillusionment people have with football and clubs.
My point about Gunnersaurus is based around the fact that certain posters on here and people in the media are jumping up and down about a redundancy, temporary one at that without knowing the true facts at hand. Does anybody know what kind of financial severance package Gunnersaurus was given? I certainly don't and without these facts I think it's ignorant to jump up and down and point fingers.
The reason I have said the above is because a few of my friends were made redundant through COVID 19 but were given financial severance packages that equated to almost 2 years salaries with the maximum allowed tax free lump sum. I am not saying Arsenal did this with Gunnersaurus, but we just don't know, it's ignorant to start spouting without the details. The redundancy severance package he was given may well have been way above any furlough payment he would receive if he was kept on!
Not only that, but most of the articles relating to Arsenal temporarily relieving him of his duties, have been reported as that he was Sacked! He wasn't sacked! How ignorant can some people be, read the articles from the Athletic or the Guardian and it clearly states the situation in detail regarding relieving him of his duties. Arsenal have even said that it's a temporary measure and he will be back when things get back to normal...whatever normal will be in the future.
Also furlough scheme is not really an option for players at premier league clubs due to their high wages, see article below;
https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/can-...h13l9hy1zmbk6n
I think the optics of making Gunnersaurus redundant on the same day as activating Partey's release clause for the reasons i've given above are not linked and are irrelevant given nobody knows what kind of severance package Gunnersaurs was given. Gunnersaurus may actually be finanically better off now! So all this talk of disillusionment may be a waste of time given we do not know the financials behind the redundancies!
I also think Mesut Ozil's pathetic cheap shot at the club via Instagram regarding offering to pay Gunnersaurus's wages exposed Mesut for the complete tosser he is. This is a man who refused to take a paycut when all the other members of the team did, most of the other team members are on a quarter or less than what he earns. Not only that, but he happily picked up his 8million bonus in the midst of sitting at home doing sweet FA. Yet people still fell hook line and sinker for it, Ozil is a thief, a conman, he is the one we should be disillusioned with!
In the end it's not about Gunnersaurus, is it? It's about a football club that's pretty grimy and has lost touch with the fans so, as you say yourself, it can submerge itself in the wider financial sewer for the benefit of the few. I can't say that applies to every club, I don't know. I suspect it does. All I can do it remark on how grubby Arsenal Football Club is. In general. On ALL matters.
This is supposed to be sport. Our escape from all that other shit. Naive, maybe, but it doesn't clean any hands.