Match Reaction - Farmer Giles and the Gang 1-1 Arsenal

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Originally Posted by Letters

He won't be sacked while he's meeting his boss's expectations.
I don't think any other manager at a club at our level would have kept his job after 8 years with no trophies (although the stadium move and associated financial constraints is a mitigating factor, although we should have won something in that time)
But I don't think many managers would have sacked after the last 2 seasons. We won a fairly prestigious trophy in each. We should be aiming for the biggest prizes but if Wenger had been sacked 2 years ago and these were the new manager's first 2 seasons I doubt many would be calling for his head.

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Man City, Chelsea, Barca, Real would sack their manager after two seasons of winning domestic cups. But they are all the worst type of clubs you can imagine. Successful of course but full of utter scumbags both on the pitch and behind the scenes.

Financial targets aside, because they are not football men up at the board level, I think Kroenke and co genuinely revere Wenger too and are in a sense cast under his spell because of his philosophical approach to the game, as well as the previous success and worldwide ambassadorial reputation he has developed.

Wenger will be here next season and beyond if the board have their way, so fans need to decide if they are going to take real action or run circles round themselves just talking about the same problems or suck it up a bit more. Those are the only options on the table.

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Originally Posted by Kano

I'm actually convinced it is the other way. In this modern, consumerist world, marketing is king, and our marketing is far more aggressive around the world than it ever has been. We wouldn't be marked down as one of the richest in the world if our merchandise, sales and marketing teams weren't being successful. We had the 5/6th highest shirt sales a couple of years back I believe. What helps us far more than someone like Ajax is the marketing of the PL too, set alongside our own efforts it ensures we can remain an attractive prospect and retain the focus on our recent and more historic success. All horrible, disgusting words of course, as marketing deserves no place in our world, let alone football but it is what it is now.

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I think you are forgetting, though, that time moves on. Of course the EPL is big overseas - particularly in Asia. But I think that there are 2 types of club (sticking to our league). There are the likes of Manure and Liverpool - both bigger clubs than us historically because of their sheer dominance of the league in their respective heydays. They have a massive following amongst supporters of a certain generation - both here and abroad. We are just behind them historically - but never achieved such dominance in the modern era. More to the point, unlike these 2 clubs, we have not won the CL. Then there are the new boys - the Chavs and Citeh who have more recent success and who have attracted superstar players. The kids overseas - if they are into the EPL - will be all over these clubs like a rash. We are certainly not minnows in terms of the size of our following - but our star is somewhat on the wane. The pity is that we could have been bigger than anyone other than Manure if we had built on Wenger's early success, but kids at home and overseas want winners, not clubs that simply turn a decent profit with consistent CL football.

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Originally Posted by Kano

Man City, Chelsea, Barca, Real would sack their manager after two seasons of winning domestic cups. But they are all the worst type of clubs you can imagine. Successful of course but full of utter scumbags both on the pitch and behind the scenes.

Financial targets aside, because they are not football men up at the board level, I think Kroenke and co genuinely revere Wenger too and are in a sense cast under his spell because of his philosophical approach to the game, as well as the previous success and worldwide ambassadorial reputation he has developed.

Wenger will be here next season and beyond if the board have their way, so fans need to decide if they are going to take real action or run circles round themselves just talking about the same problems or suck it up a bit more. Those are the only options on the table.

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I don't think Kroenke and Co give a flying fuck about Wenger's footballing philosophy. Wenger is good at keeping our club the cash cow that they can milk, while never having invested a single penny in players or stadium.

I agree... I don't think Kroenke reveres Wenger......that would suggest he's into this sport in a big way. Wenger is simply securing his investment and what more would Kroenke want.

If that is compromised, Kroenke will then get twitchy.

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Originally Posted by IBK

I think you are forgetting, though, that time moves on. Of course the EPL is big overseas - particularly in Asia. But I think that there are 2 types of club (sticking to our league). There are the likes of Manure and Liverpool - both bigger clubs than us historically because of their sheer dominance of the league in their respective heydays. They have a massive following amongst supporters of a certain generation - both here and abroad. We are just behind them historically - but never achieved such dominance in the modern era. More to the point, unlike these 2 clubs, we have not won the CL. Then there are the new boys - the Chavs and Citeh who have more recent success and who have attracted superstar players. The kids overseas - if they are into the EPL - will be all over these clubs like a rash. We are certainly not minnows in terms of the size of our following - but our star is somewhat on the wane. The pity is that we could have been bigger than anyone other than Manure if we had built on Wenger's early success, but kids at home and overseas want winners, not clubs that simply turn a decent profit with consistent CL football.

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All we've had is CL football and top four or years and now added to some truly world class players, that is all a marketing machine has needed to keep the club ripping fans off all over the world. There was a study of around 50k Chinese fans almost a couple of years ago and we came out as the most popular. It's just spin and marketing that can sell any bullshit when done the right way. All the marketing and sales bullshit reflects that in that sense, the Arsenal 'brand' is far from on the wane. But again, I'm trying to remain factual in that they are doing their job 'well' and not supportive of these bullshit mercenaries pricks that run the globe.

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Originally Posted by IBK

I don't think Kroenke and Co give a flying fuck about Wenger's footballing philosophy. Wenger is good at keeping our club the cash cow that they can milk, while never having invested a single penny in players or stadium.

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Well exactly. Part of his philosophy is doing things on a budget, economics tied into how you play the game. He's a very much a believer in the free market too. Everyone has the right to do and choose as they please. His ideas stretch out way beyond this sport. All the things the arseholes owning our club love. But again, like Wenger's position at the club we are going to have to adjust ourselves because now we are owned by billionaires, we will always be owned by billionaires. More Kroenke's and co to follow that will milk us for whatever they can.

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

Ferguson supposedly did it in his last year at Utd, Blackburn supposedly did it.. Again, dont emphasize on the fluke, emphasize on the question of whether Wenger is the long term answer at Arsenal.

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He clearly isn't the long term answer if only because of his age.
But he's a relatively safe pair of hands right now, more so than some of the alternatives proposed on here who have gone on to crash and burn. He has his flaws but don't kid yourself that any idiot could come in and do better.

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Originally Posted by Kano

Well exactly. Part of his philosophy is doing things on a budget, economics tied into how you play the game. He's a very much a believer in the free market too. Everyone has the right to do and choose as they please. His ideas stretch out way beyond this sport. All the things the arseholes owning our club love. But again, like Wenger's position at the club we are going to have to adjust ourselves because now we are owned by billionaires, we will always be owned by billionaires. More Kroenke's and co to follow that will milk us for whatever they can.

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RIP our wonderful game :(

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Originally Posted by Chippy

RIP our wonderful game :(

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Like a lot of things smothered by consumerism you just have to focus on the best of what's left. Most of that is just twenty-two guys having a kick about. All the other shit beyond that just fucks it all up.

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Originally Posted by Kano

Well exactly. Part of his philosophy is doing things on a budget, economics tied into how you play the game. He's a very much a believer in the free market too. Everyone has the right to do and choose as they please. His ideas stretch out way beyond this sport. All the things the arseholes owning our club love. But again, like Wenger's position at the club we are going to have to adjust ourselves because now we are owned by billionaires, we will always be owned by billionaires. More Kroenke's and co to follow that will milk us for whatever they can.

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Yes its a billionaires' game and a business rather than a 'sport' now. But as you well know, there are different ways to milk the cash cow, and in terms of our status and results we very much have the short end of the wedge in terms of our investors. The newcomers to our game are prepared to pump money into their clubs to make them winners - and to leverage that for commercial success. These owners are driven by the need to get to the top - and the majority of our competitors - the Chavs; Citeh; Manure and even Liverpool fall into this bracket. On the other hand. our despicable owner is well known for playing the percentages. Winning is not important as long as we do the minimum required to maintain a commercial position. And I think that this is our fans' frustration - with both owner and manager.