Are the doubters wrong about Wenger?

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Originally Posted by Özim

Not really, that's what blind faith is about, he's more like their Dad than their manager and seems to mollycoddle them. He's been known for persisting with players for far too long when clearly they weren't good enough plenty of times.

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But as i've said your criticisms in that regard seem to be about how you perceive what the manager is doing, rather than what you know he is doing.

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Originally Posted by Letters

On yeah. Parking 10 men behind the ball is brilliant. BRILLIANT!
Particularly impressive how he's lost to Palace, Sunderland and Villa in the run in too.

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I'll just leave this here... Mourinho: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/jo...ainer_781.html

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Originally Posted by Letters

I'd have taken that at the start of the season, I think many of us would. Is a sense of perspective too much to ask rather than all this hyperbole?

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Yeah yeah, we know you'd have taken anything at the start of the season as you keep telling us. Some of us are tired of settling for 2nd best all the time because the manager has decided to lower our expectations.

If someone had asked me 9 years ago what I expected now, I'd be expecting titles and a CL or two, thanks to Wenger there's little hope of that, 4th place wasn't even a consideration then.

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Originally Posted by Özim

I'm consistent whether we win or lose, you may not have mentioned my name but it's clear from this thread who was being referred to. My comments after the Hull game are largely pointing out double standards and how he always twists things in favour of his players which IMO is one of the problems, although not specifically related to his players in this instance I admit, he opens himself up to criticism by saying one thing one day and something completely different the next.

As I've said his interviews and post match conferences do annoy me because they just reinforce the fact we're not going to see any change, I find this hard to ignore, in many ways it would be better if he said nothing at all, at least he wouldn't rub the perceived failure in our faces.

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There is not a manager in the game who isn't hypocritical, applies double standards and who isn't extremely biased. It's par for the course, and has no real reflection on his failings as a manger. As if somehow he'd do better if he acknowledged (publically) that a 50/50 decision went in his favour and he got lucky.

You can comment on what you like, but i think it does seem like your reaching somewhat.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I'm sorry but i don't want to hear about Mourinho, i think a club like Chelsea should be ashamed that their manager resorts to playing the way they did against a smaller club like Atletico Madrid with the infinite resources they have. It's bad enough that they have the kind of money they have to spend irradicating any sense of building a club up whilst remaining fiscally responsible, but you'd think at the very least there would be some element of entertainment in what they do.

Playing 11 men behind the ball doesn't make you a tactical genius, it makes you someone who is more afraid to lose than determined to win.

This isn't about defending Wenger, any half decent manager could tactically outsmart him....but don't try and make Mourinho out at this brilliant schemer able to adapt to any given situation...he's a man who acheives things with a generous cheque book and doesn't even have the guts to do so with flair and style...pernicious little coward.

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Pretty much...:good:

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

But as i've said your criticisms in that regard seem to be about how you perceive what the manager is doing, rather than what you know he is doing.

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Is it perceived though, don't what we see on the pitch and the team selection and what former players say support this?

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Originally Posted by Özim

I'm consistent whether we win or lose.

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Aye. And I think that's part of my problem with you.
Consistency in opinions no matter what happens isn't something to pat yourself on the back about. It's why you constantly move the goalposts and twist facts rather than reconsidering your opinions in the light of new evidence.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

He says what his opinion is but i am specifically refering to his post-match press conferences. I can predict with a fair degree of certainty what he will say, and that the words "belief", "quality" and "spirit" will feature heavily. He gives you his opinion on the economic statement of football (most of which i agree with) in press conferences but for me they are completley removed from his performance as manager. As you know i am still not convinced we have had any more to spend that we have actually spent, so my criticism of him is based on how well he has invested and what he has done with the player resources he already has rather than his footballing philosophies.
But as i say a lot of his statements to the press especially those that come after matches tend to be very generic.

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Why? When he says he believes the players have given everything in a match but we lack sharpness, why is that removed when he can admit later down the line that he’s overplayed players like Ramsey and Giroud which results in fatigue and injuries? Why wouldn’t you connect the dots?

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

I'll just leave this here... Mourinho: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/jo...ainer_781.html

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Not quite sure how that's a response to my post but OK...
No-one is denying he's not a great manager, but parking the bus ain't tactical genius.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Yeah yeah, we know you'd have taken anything at the start of the season as you keep telling us.

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Taken anything? Where have I said that?
Take your time :good: