I think I can only answer that by saying I respect your opinion on these matters about as much as you respect mine :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Printable View
I think I can only answer that by saying I respect your opinion on these matters about as much as you respect mine :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Nwaneri is the backup to Odegaard
Eze (talking hypothetically here because my position is still consistent with him being too expensive for a player of his age and ability) would play as a double pivot with Odegaard/Nwaneri
Which then possibly means we would look at signing Rodrygo in addition who can provide cover on the right as well as play on the left. And we could in addition divest ourselves of Trossard (who clearly doesn’t want to stay), Vieira (who is the only anaemic Portuguese I’ve ever come across) and Nelson.
But again that would be expensive and we’ve wasted 26 million that we didn’t need to spend.
That's the main plus to the signing, he has played in the centre and dictated play numerous times so we'd get a proper plan B to Odegaard, and one who won't be afraid to start and finish a move (though his finishing is suspect).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Rogers can do the same too....and if one insists on keeping Martinelli (there is no upward curve for him under this coach), then either makes sense.
However, if we really want to have someone as deadly on the wing as Saka ( and move on from the tired project that is Marrinelli), then Lookman remains the better choice as even Saka's direct goal contribution can't compare to his.
Yeah Lookman seems a good potential option
Zin to Milan looks like it's happening :pray:
Reports are appearing saying we have added Nicolas Jackson to our choice of strikers.
FUCK ME!!!!! :censored::censored::censored::censored:
This would cause a justifiable riot and I'm pretty sure even Arteta wouldn't dare this after the crap he pulled with Havertz...so I'll discard this news, at least for now.Quote:
Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club
Only much of what i've said isn't opinion, it's factQuote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
White and Timber need to be alternated at RB
Meaning we don't have adequate cover for our CBs, especially Saliba
We only have one LB
We need to replace two departing DMs
We need a decent backup goalie
Rice was player of the Season playing at 8, moving him on any kind of regular basis would be an act of insanity
While I'd prefer Gyokeres, if they want Sesko, just pay what it takes ffs and stop us being linked with all this garbageQuote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
He got away with Havertz, who happened to be half-decent playing in a position he wasn't bought for, like you say Jackson would be different, Arteta massively undervalues the attacking part of the game, while I'm not using that frustration to needlessly criticise other sensible incomings, we need to get the attacking business done plus sell players - Zin, Nelson and others should be done asap
I know you can’t tell the difference but it’s opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
In your opinion Timber and White need to be alternated constantly plus that doesn’t preclude one or the other from covering the right side of central defence without either being overplayed. So no, not fact.
It’s your opinion that Calafiori can’t play at left back. I would probably now agree with you that Lewis-Skelly is superior there but I still think Calafiori offers more going forward, so no not fact.
Rice did excellent against the top sides at number 8, but the fact that he’s not a natural passer, dribbler and lacks acceleration relative to more creative players means playing him at 8 against mid block teams is part of the reason why our XG often averaged less than 2 against some sides, he is still also naturally a 6 so to suggest he can’t play there to provide cover is silly. So again not fact, your opinion.
I didn’t even mention the goalkeeper. I think it’s an extremely low priority but actually spending 5 million on Kepa rather than the 30-40 million we would have had to spend on Joan Garcia makes it a shrewd bit of business so I have no problem with that signing.
If Cala is good going forward then play him in MF, part of a wing back's job is to defend, anyone actually watching him try and defend at LB should be quickly able to see that he can't do it
Funnily enough Saka actually did a good job at LB when he played there, but clearly that's not where we should be playing him
Calafiori started as a left back, that’s where he played for Italy but he can also play at centre back because he’s versatile. So evidently you’re stating you can see something that coaches in Italy and Switzerland as well as Arteta can’t see. I think at times he’s proven to be clumsy but to outright claim he can’t play there is evidence of your asserting your opinion as fact, and especially hypocritical given your irritation at what you claim I do.
As I say, it’s your opinion that we need defensive cover. It’s mine that we don’t.
So the update on the Gyokores/Sesko saga is apparently both clubs have climbed down and both players are available for the same price tag of €70m (this is less than Mbuemo currently)
Gyokores remains eager but seems to be getting frustrated at how long this is taking while Our Highness Seko, also seems to be a bit more sober.
I think both clubs and players just want this deal wrapped up next week so everyone can move on with their plans (as 1/2 of preseason is almost gone already).
Its now up to our seasoned team of brilliant professionals to make the next move.
https://www.teamtalk.com/arsenal/tra...o-double-boost
there's no irritation from me, simply a pointing out that it's a fact that having no-one who can regularly cover for Saliba in a meaningful way is a weakness, likewise not replacing two DMsQuote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
I can only say again,we saw Gabriel get injured and Saliba lose his head a bit towards the end of last season which is clear evidence they need more support than is already present.
Arteta will want to be competing in all comps as usual and tends to play over-strength teams a lot of the time, so given we are unlikely to shake him from that, then this is the solution - I'm trying to work with Arteta's faults here
Also your attitude to Rice and where he should play is simply borne from the fact you nailed your colours to the mast early, got proved wrong and so are trying to dig yourself out by somehow claiming he doesn't help our attack which is absurd
Well we're all getting fed up with Berta's game-playing, let's go for Gyok or if Arteta insists then Sesko but just one of them please ffsQuote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
Sigh yesQuote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Once again, people can only ever disagree with you in bad faith
Never mind that been screaming for an extra creative player for ages at no8, but yes it’s just because of an obsessive hatred for Rice :lol:
Its actually got nothing to do with Rice. Rice is playing a more typical box to box role rather than his starting position as a defensive midfielder. That position for me doesn’t work against mid-low block teams. I think in these situations you need a defensive midfielder behind two creative players. Rice has done ok but I don’t believe you need more than one defensive/holding player call it what you will against most mid table sides and in fact it’s become detrimental to our ability to create chances.
That’s not blaming Rice at all, it’s a situation that isn’t helped by Odegaard having a dreadful situation which puts all the pressure on Rice to be our chance creator and I don’t think that’s good enough for a player for whom that isn’t their primary function.
I think there’s been maybe two games this season where I’ve criticised Rice’s performances. So again, maybe just try and understand that people have a legitimate difference of opinion from you
And we have got two players who can cover for Saliba on the right hand side of defence. Three players covering two positions is more than adequate cover. Arteta has signed defender after defender after defender for the past five and a half years, it’s time to stop.
except a good few of them weren't defenders - Zin is no kind of defender, Cala is suspect especially at LB and Kiwior can only really play in one position
again, we have good cover at RB with White and Timber, but unless we want to overstretch them in the multiple games we need to pay, we need one more who can play in the CB positions as apparently Christian whatisname can
and you're ignoring the fact that this could be a precursor to Kiwior leaving, as he will probably want more first team football then we can give him
jump on the bandwagon if you want but there is sense to it
I’m not jumping on a bandwagon, Ive been clear for ages no more defenders
Despite your insistence to the contrary Calafiori is a defender so therefore we have Timber, White, Gabriel, Saliba, Kiwior, Lewis-Skelly and Calafiori. Seven players is sufficient. I wouldn’t support selling Kiwior either
In my view we don’t need a defender and we don’t need a defensive midfielder (my preference would have been to keep Partey and sell Merino but even without him we are covered)
We are only going back and forth here because as I’ve observed loads of times you’re either unable or unwilling to acknowledge the difference between your opinion and fact.
It's too simplistic to say it's 7 players for 4 positions becauae, as I.keep trying to explain, not all of the players can play all of the positions
I maintain Cala is not up to defending at LB and Kiwior can only defend properly at LCB, and may be leaving (i'd keep him too but as i tried to explain, he may wish to go elsewhere and if I were him I would)
The point of Christian whatisname is to be more comprehensive cover, it's only one player ffs
And the DMs are replacing players which have left, I didn't see you saying we had too many DMs last season unless you said it about Merino but who the eff knows why we bought him anyway
Again what you maintain and what is are not one and the same thing
For the right side of defence and central defence we have three players - Saliba, White and Timber…and should he ever come back from injury Tomiyasu (hardly likely we will sell him this summer)
On the left side we have Gabriel, Kiwior, Lewis-Skelly and Calafiori
You don’t need to explain anything, you don’t need to maintain anything. Your belief (and that’s all it is) is that we need another defender and mine is that we don’t.
Jorginho hardly played. We had Rice and Partey who were sufficient, now Partey is gone and Zubimendi replaces him. I don’t think Norgaard is by itself a bad signing but it’s an unnecessary one (unless we get rid of Merino).
I stated very clearly that my preference was to keep Partey and get rid of Merino because even with Jorginho going we had too many players for one position and I think at least 50% of the time an attacking player should be at 8.
I don’t care if you agree or not, anymore than I care for your unnecessary explanations as if somehow I needed you to tell me what options we had in defence or what you maintain to be the case about Calafiori
The only thing I’ve done is sought to point out that you either can’t or choose not to distinguish fact from your opinion.
In my opinion we needed neither a centre back or a defensive midfielder, which adds up to 26 million that would have been better spent in more offensive signings. You don’t agree…plus ca change. I suppose to your intractable mindset it’s another indefensible position?
Quick question Mac, we've got 5 attacking positions in the team, do we have 10 first team players that can play them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
And if we do, shouldn't we really have more, like say Man U, Chelsea, Barca, Citeh and Madrid do ? Also one needs to consider that Arteta's style means that our attacking players are forced to cover more distance and work harder than our defenders on average in 90mins, so definitely shouldn't there me cover in these positions?
@HCZ
The £26m is irrelevant, we already had about £200m for buying players and will raise more from Zin, tavares/lokonga, Nelson and maybe one or two others, I'd imagine that will more than level things out
Also when you talk about cover, maybe you're just talking about dealing with injuries, I'm talking about having opportunities to fully rest defensive players who generally spend more time on the pitch than forwards, who more often get subbed. For the third time, Saliba clearly was suffering from being overplayed towards the end of last season and lost his head a few times. White and Timber need to cover off RB between them so for me that is again not the answer.
It's also why Rice doesn't work as DM 'cover', first of all it's not his best position and secondly he too needs rest, not to be made to stand in for Zubimendi if he's injured/rested It was quite clear Rice was overtired at the beginning of last season because of playing with England all summer and didn't perform as well for us for a month or two.
If we want to win stuff we need to be able to rotate players more and make sure we have more alternatives for cup games etc, players Arteta will actually trust to do a job
The alternative is overplaying our first 11 and ending up with nothing again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
i've written many posts here saying a) we need two added strikers and a winger and b) we should not sell any current first team attackers, e.g Leo or Martinelli, to strengthen the attack
Strengthening attack and defence aren't mutually exclusive, people are just overreacting, which I partly get because I'm impatient to sign attacking players too, but the fact is, we're replacing two departing DMs plus getting one relatively cheap but necessary stand-in which will be paid for by sales.
As per my post above, defenders spend more time on the pitch than attackers so it makes sense to have just ONE extra player to cover for Saliba and Gabby
Trust me if we don't do the job at the other end of the pitch I'll be at the front of the queue saying Arteta and Berta out
The 26 million isn’t irrelevant when for me we need to sign three or four players in attacking positions. Minimum three…a striker, a creative midfielder and a winger. These are players that clubs demand in excess of 60-70 million for…(Brentford rejected 62 million bid for Mbeumo from United for). So even with a budget of 200 million, spending 26 million in areas that are NOT a priority is exceptionally foolish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
You can repeat yourself as much as you like, the 7-8 players that we already have in defence is more than sufficient for allowing for rotation as well as injury.
For example
In 1 game you have Saliba and Timber on the right hand side
In another you have Saliba and White
In another you have Timber and White
The same consideration in defensive midfield
In the big games you play Zubimendi at 6 and Rice at 8
In other games you play Zubimendi and a creative midfielder at 8
Or you play Rice and a creative midfielder at 8
You call 6 not Rice’s best position, it’s his natural position. Fine he did well against the big teams in a more box to box role but it doesn’t change the fact that his natural ability is putting out fires.
It’s absurd beyond reason to agonise about additional cover in these positions when we are chronically undermanned in the offensive positions, we aren’t Chelsea or Man City we can’t just go beserk in the transfer market and allow for tournaments like the FIFA world club cup to facilitate our disregard for the rules.
Fair point on the subs, though subbing a player like Odegaard seems to be Arteta's worst nightmare when it should be something that happens more regularly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Yeah agreed I do wonder if they see Nwaneri playing there a bit although i think it might be better trying Saka at R8 and Ethan on the wingQuote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
That's the thing you're the one who's agonising, I'm just saying I can see the sense of itQuote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Your White/Timber/Saliba combos make sense ofc and I was already perfectly aware of it, but it only works up to the point that one of them gets injured and it's not sensible to expect players not to get injured, Arteta made that mistake with Havertz last season.
I do btw think, as we've seen with Havertz amd Merino, that midfielders can do a job further forward in an emergency whereas they can't do a job in defence as easily, you need specialist cover there. But once again i'm not saying we don't need to strengthen going forward, ofc we do
As for budget, as I said these buys will be covered by sales so our £200m+ remains intact. It looks like Sesko/Gyok will be about 60-70m, second/backup striker should be say 40-50m and that leaves you with 80-90 for the winger, job done with a bit of give if needed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
I’m talking about how Arteta obsessively agonises about it
Sure plus you have to factor in the 50 million we’ve already spent out on Zubimendi.
Realistically what are we going to get in player sales. No one wants Lokonga, Get about 10 million at most for Zinchenko, Nelson at most about 20 million (and that’s because he’s English) won’t get more than a token amount for Trossard and frankly offloading Jesus will be a forlorn hope
In my view the top priority is a striker than it’s a creative midfielder (a position I strongly doubt we will strengthen in but for me that would rule out a league title) third is a winger and then if we have spare cash a second striker
I think the money we’ve spent already would rule out a second striker even if we were inclined to go down that path
Ok i was forgetting about Zubi so yes that makes things tighter, but Tavares (which is who i'm talking about i get him and Lokonga mixed up) has a sell-on clause which could get us around 13m, wh8ch partly balances that out.
Also i think we may have more than £200m given CL money etc
So let's call it £220:
Zubi -50
Zin +10
Tavares+13
Nelson +20
Christian plus Norgaard -26
Kepa -5
So that's -£38m
From £220 that leaves £182m
Having re-read things Sesko is maybe 70m euros i.e. £60m
So:
Sesko: -60m
Rodrygo (for sake of argument) -60m
So that still leaves £62m for another player, either a creative player or forward (given Havertz is a forward i can see the argument for a creative player instead)
Personally I'd also look to sell Calafiori plus maybe Merino given i've not seen much evidence either of them can play the positions they were bought for, plus Cala is injury prone - if you want to talk bad signings both of them were unnecessary
Also while i don't want to sell an attacker (and given what you're saying about our needing to strengthen our attack it's odd that you do) if we sell Leo i think it will because a big offer comes in from the Saudis, otherwise we keep him.
I just saw something on fbook which sets it out like this:
Raya/Kepa
Timber/White
Saliba/Mosquera
Gabby/Kiwior
MLS /Cala
Zubi/Norgaard
Ode/Nwaneri
Rice/Merino
Saka/Leo
Sesko/Havertz/Jesus
Rodrygo or Eze/Martinelli
While I don't think Cala's a very good LB, Jesus is a joke and not sure re Leo on the right, it does otherwise show how it works with the new signings so far
Basically it's short of one attacking signing
From the above we are clearly clutching at straws with the positions of Rice, Saka, the laughable frontmen and the poor performing Left wing duo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
So that's 4 out of 5 attacking positions.
Actually 5, as Nwanerri is a kid and shouldn't be relied on to bear the burden of relieving Odegaard as the player that dictates our play.
Clearly this isn't going to be the summer where we solve our attacking issues, so I think we are on the right path by sticking to what we know best and buying defender after defender :good:
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
To be clear it's just what a fan put up (not me)
Are you talking the left wing when you say poorly performing duo?
You're right re Nwaneri, as I said elsewhere he'd be better supporting Saka on the right, trouble is I think Arteta's inclination is still to play Saka for 90 mins in every game :rose:
I'm trying to live with what we're doing and with the idea of Sesko, i don't think he (or Havertz) is laughable but Jesus is - that said i'd prefer Gyokeres by a long way
Tbh I think there's room to move people around up front, defence less so, it's so clear when a defender is out of position
That said I'm coming around to the idea we need an Ode backup
I too am concerned we may not end up having quite enough going forward but I don't think that will be because of a lack of funds, I'm just concerned we'll mess it up. I don't like Arteta's obsession with never conceding a goal any more than anyone else, i'm only saying i understand a net gain of one defensive player when last season showed we had inadequate cover
Calvert-Lewin leaving Everton.
Our new striker confirmed. :bow:
Thanks for the correction and I fully understand your argument that you can't really replace a defender with a midfielder ( though in our case both Partey and Rice have experience playing as CBs).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
The thing is, it was crystal clear what failed us last season, and it wasn't our defence despite the various injuries.
The whole world knows that our problem is clearly our attack and I believe that even if they had managed to all stay injury free (i e. the attackers), we still wouldn't have been able to close the gap on Liverpool which pretty much started from day one.
It's really upsetting to see that our attitude to resolving this seems so relaxed and nonchalant and I am beginning to believe that Arteta and the people that matter still can't appreciate this nor understand the drive and focus it takes to win a league title (especially when we have a pretty hefty psychological block we need to overcome).
many a true wordQuote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
no arguments with that - you're right I think Rice can a do a job at CB though taht's one of those cases of weakening us elsewhere if we used him for that and ofc Partey's leavingQuote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
On your point about Arteta's attitude to attackers, it's what worries about Sesko, that Arteta sees him as a project to play in some weird position instead of just having a goalscorer in the box where we all want him
It's like him considering Jesus as a striking option - he isn't, even if fit, anything near what we need, firstly he's all over the pitch and second he can't hit a barn door unless it's against Palace
Are they nonchalant? - i dunno, they must know as you say the whole world is waiting for us to strengthen our attack.,
from what i hear about him, I think the delays are down to typical behaviour by Berta of playing people off each other to get the best price - which could in theory help our budget go further, but at worst lose us all the best prospects as they get fed up of being played and go elsewhere
This next week is crucial IMO - we need to see real progress or the natives will be restless...
so the Eze interest is apparently serious and he seen as an extra to a winger and a strlker, which is good and eases some of my reservations, he would add creativity and unpredictability which we desperately need and be good fun to watch
https://arsenalnews.co.uk/2025/07/01...inger-pursuit/
Rogers would do pretty much the same but apparently Villa are no longer in financial turmoil as they're copying Chelsea by selling their women's team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
If I was a Villa fan I'd be pleased with that bit of creative accounting to save the team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
Rogers and Eze are similar in that both are utility players, plus I think Rogers is a better player
60 million is for me too much for someone who is 27 and yes he had a good season but still injury question marks and indifferent form.
I think playing him in central midfield (alongside Odegaard preferably) would be acceptable to me, whilst certainly not a player I’d be actively wanting us to go for. I’ve softened on him to the point where I wouldn’t be dreadfully annoyed if we did so.
If Ornstein is correct and we are signing three players - winger, creative midfielder and striker. I’d welcome that news but given we would be likely spending in excess of 200 million just on those three positions, I’m still somewhat skeptical
I hope to fuck this isn't true
https://x.com/DTalkingArsenal/status...96940927692924
Quote:
��BREAKING -
@siphillipssport
: Arsenal are expected to make a bid for Chelsea’s Noni Madueke SOON. ⏳����⚪️
The Gunners view the 23-year-old as the “perfect winger target.” �������������� #AFC