Are the doubters wrong about Wenger?

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Originally Posted by Letters

Aye. And I think that's part of my problem with you.
Consistency in opinions no matter what happens isn't something to pat yourself on the back about. It's why you constantly move the goalposts and twist facts rather than reconsidering your opinions in the light of new evidence.

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Nope, because we haven't won a trophy in 9 years. I'm not going to start saying Wenger is a tactical genius if we all of a sudden win the FA Cup. That would be senseless.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Nope, because we haven't won a trophy in 9 years. I'm not going to start saying Wenger is a tactical genius if we all of a sudden win the FA Cup. That would be senseless.

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Yes. It would be senseless. No-one thinks Wenger is a tactical genius.

You've basically ignored or missed the entire point of my post.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Is it perceived though, don't what we see on the pitch and the team selection and what former players say support this?

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Actually former players have said their is a lack of match preparation they have said nothing about a man who regards the players as his sons and is never critical of them. I think it only suggests that the previous players didnt really need much coaching as were good enough without it, and he hasn't got the ability to get the full potential out of his current crop. It tells you nothing about the relationship he has with the players, you are just filling in the gaps to fit your own narrative.
Who else used to do that?....fellow called David Irvin

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Originally Posted by Letters

Yes. It would be senseless. No-one thinks Wenger is a tactical genius.

You've basically ignored or missed the entire point of my post.

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I get the point but you're not going to adjust an opinion just after one game especially when weighing it up against an 18 year history. I get you point, it's just not a good one.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Actually former players have said their is a lack of match preparation they have said nothing about a man who regards the players as his sons and is never critical of them. I think it only suggests that the previous players didnt really need much coaching as were good enough without it, and he hasn't got the ability to get the full potential out of his current crop. It tells you nothing about the relationship he has with the players, you are just filling in the gaps to fit your own narrative.
Who else used to do that?....fellow called David Irvin

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Come on, plenty of players have said Wenger is like a father figure to them and also gone on record to say he rarely losses his cool.

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

That is a phenomenally awesome post. I despise Mourinho as a human being but that man is a tactical genius. People blaming him for playing boring football havent seen Arsenal play the last few years. We probably play one of the most boring form of football I can remember watching. I dont mind being bored if it was part of a tactical plan to something effective. It unfortunately is not... we have no plan B. Sometimes I wonder if we even have a Plan A!

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The one thing you can't argue with Mourinho is his success. Everything else is up for debate. He is the world master at stopping other teams playing. He has created a cult around himself and has a management style that is incredibly effective if players buy into this (unlike they did at RM). But he is an enemy of football in the sense that his motivation begins and ends at himself. He clearly feels no responsibility towards the game that has given him success - and for a manager of his pedigree to play the way he does, and behave the way he does is inexcusable. Comparing Wenger to Mourinho in terms of custodianship of the game is like comparing Nelson mandela with Robert Mugabe.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I get the point but you're not going to adjust an opinion just after one game especially when weighing it up against an 18 year history. I get you point, it's just not a good one.

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If you think I meant we should all adjust our opinions from game to game then you didn't get my point at all.

My point was some people rigidly stick to their opinions (not just about Wenger, about players and all kinds of things) no matter what happens and increasingly twist or ignore facts rather than reconsidering their stance.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Come on, plenty of players have said Wenger is like a father figure to them and also gone on record to say he rarely losses his cool.

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Plenty of ex United players cited Ferguson as a father figure, so even using that as the premise in your argument doesn't hold water. The DPRK is more transparent about what goes on behind the scenes than Arsenal football club so its hard to draw specific conclusions from general points. I believe that there is something wrong there but I don't feel qualified to extrapolate something from that to criticise every asset of the man.

If I was going to state what I believe is the case is that you have a manager who has for too long been given free reign to indulge his ideology. I think the only pressure he is ever put on by the board is to achieve 4th so that's why he sets so much stall by it because its the only thing he knows he has to achieve.

Does it excuse him of anything? No but can you honestly tell me that if you were paid as well as he was and the bar was set so low for you that you'd have problems sleeping at night.

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Originally Posted by Letters

If you think I meant we should all adjust our opinions from game to game then you didn't get my point at all.

My point was some people rigidly stick to their opinions (not just about Wenger, about players and all kinds of things) no matter what happens and increasingly twist or ignore facts rather than reconsidering their stance.

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I know and it's a poor point because it's been 9 years of the same. There isn't much to go on to suggest we're improving or to flip views that dramatically. We're not judging from game to game. Just looking at how the season unravels each year and seeing the same patterns. That's why views will stay consistent and not flip flop from 'Wenger in' to 'Wenger out'.

Mourinho is such a tactical genius he is about to go two seasons in a row without winning a trophy. And spent close to £200 million to achieve that.


Genius