Match Reaction - 0-2 chelski

Saying that, might be a good reason to quit smoking :)

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I would have thought my previous statement rather answered your question, obviously stating that my dog can see that Wenger is NOT the person to push us forward is not Unequivocal enough for you.

My point is that everything has to be put in it's proper perspective, whilst it is frustrating seeing Wenger make the same mistakes over and over again. Personal frustration cannot be equated with Crisis, that's when managers get sacked.

I have stated previously that he should have been encouraged to go out on a high at the end of last season, but the fact remains he has a contract until 2017 and unless 4th place is in jeopardy there is no question of him being sacked....and there still isn't huge appetite from the fans to push him before he jumps even though that more or less all of them acknowledge that we almost certainly won't win the title back in that period of time.

Is it ideal?....no not really... but barring terminal cancer i feel i can wait three years.

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But I didn't ask if you thought Wenger was the right guy for the job. I was referring to your comment about our rivals dropping points. It shouldn't matter that they're dropping points, especially when most of them are above us already. Pointing to their performances in light of our own doesn't put anything into perspective.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

But I didn't ask if you thought Wenger was the right guy for the job. I was referring to your comment about our rivals dropping points. It shouldn't matter that they're dropping points, especially when most of them are above us already. Pointing to their performances in light of our own doesn't put anything into perspective.

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"Be honest, in light of what we've seen in the past, do you think we'll see a turn around and we'll push on to challenge for the title?"

Challenging for the title for me would be taking us forward would it not?....therefore as i don't think Wenger will take us forward i don't think we will challenge for the title. What i mean by putting things in their perspective is because of the results of the teams around us, we aren't in crisis. Is that a surging endorsement of the manager?....no not really but my point is that it doesn't really prompt any great appetite from the vast majority of people who attend the Emirates game in, game out for his immediate removal either.

If i remember correctly given that this isn't the referendum topic, the conversation veered into why there is no great clamor at games for the manager to be removed. Firstly my point was that in the last 12 months we have faired reasonably well at home, and secondly whilst there is frustration that we aren't reaching our full potential a lot of the rumbling was more based around selling our best players and not bringing in players of any real quality to replace them.

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

:gp:

One of the best posts ever.. especially the part in bold. Wenger trumps whatever crap we are producing as the best in the world. He serves us canned tuna for 100$ and expects us to behave like he has given us caviar.

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Both quite putrid and I'd actually might even prefer to waste the gold on the tinned tuna and that is revolting as it is. Choosing one to buy and eat is a little like deciding which testicle you want smashed to smithereens. In the end it a detestable experience.

I know this is entirely besides the point. :d

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Originally Posted by Letters

Oh behave. You look at the money they've spent over a sustained period. City won the title last season after a sustained period of spending way beyond their means. You answer me this: would they have won the title without the billionaire owner spunking money around over the last few years? The answer to that is obvious so yes, yes they did buy the title. Were they a business who had to play by business rules they'd have gone bust. Were FFP to have any bite they'd be docked so many points they'd have no hope of winning the league. As it is they just had to pay a bribe/fine and on they go.
Teams like Chelsea are able to stockpile players to the point where they can not just build better squads than anyone could if they had to live within their means, they employ far more cynical tactics than just outbidding other teams. Chelsea buy up players and then loan them out to non-rivals to make it even harder to compete with them.
( http://www.theguardian.com/football/...-west-football )
City's owners have bought other clubs where they can stockpile players thus ensuring rivals don't get them.
It's not an 'excuse' to say it's very difficult to compete with clubs who can do this sort of thing. You seriously think another manager is going to waltz in and we'll be winning the league? You're kidding yourself.

I agree with the rest of your post. Our football isn't good at the moment and we should be playing more like we did against Galatasaray who might not be much good but they're probably no worse than a lot of the PL sides we'll face. That game showed we can do it, it's frustrating we don't do it more.

As for what Wenger says. He does spout a load of bollocks, granted, but he's never been one to publicly criticise his players and nor should he, IMO. Like it or not 4th place is important because of the way the CL works, it's not like a trophy obviously but see above about Wenger spouting bollocks and I don't see how you equate that with claiming he: 'trumps whatever crap we are producing best in the world'. 4th shouldn't be the limit of our ambitions but I've explained why I feel it's difficult to do better than 3rd. I think we should be closer, I think our football should be better, but we're hardly mid-table or worse and we did win the FA Cup less than 5 months ago.

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I'll ask you a question... lets say Abramovich or Abu Dhabi did not come in whenever it was, do you think City or Chelsea would EVER have won anything? The format and money of CL is such that there was really only 3 teams- Liverpool, Utd and us who had a chance to win. Yes, I accept that that a sustained period of spending took them above us but I think that in the last 2 seasons we had the financial power to be very close to them. Especially with FFP, these teams cannot add players as they 'wish'.

Like I said, I am not saying we beat them left right and center (it'd be great if we could).. all I am asking is that a team filled with that much talent at least entertain and put in an effort. And this is not an ask only because of this match, this is ALL I ever asked of the manager.. and he has failed to deliver that consistently over the last many seasons. Like I said.. for his salary and the ticket prices we pay, Arsenal Football club deserves a manager who can do that and Wenger is NOT the answer!

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

I'll ask you a question... lets say Abramovich or Abu Dhabi did not come in whenever it was, do you think City or Chelsea would EVER have won anything?

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No, obviously not. The whole way football is set up is designed to keep the top clubs up there. No-one can break into the top 4 without serious investment.
I don't blame City or Chelsea for doing what they've done, I do blame their idiot fans for strutting around crowing as though it's an achievement though.

We do now have the financial power to compete with them better than we have been able to previously and that new financial power has seen a change in transfer policy. Ozil last year (whatever you think of how he's done, that was a major signing which showed some real intent), this year we've signed Sanchez, Chambers and Welbeck, none of whom were cheap. But before that we were tied into poor commercial deals which were signed in order to guarantee stadium repayments and, while we all agree Wenger was probably too conservative in that era, we were not able to spend like some of our rivals. Now some of those constraints have been lifted we've started spending accordingly.

FFP has been a joke. As I said, City flouted it and what was their 'punishment'? A fine.
A fine! They fined a team who have infinite money :lol: What kind of punishment is that? No points docked, no ban from any competitions, just a pay off. They might as well have called it a bribe and be done with it.
Plus they can get around it buy buying other clubs or loaning players out and stockpiling players elsewhere. Whatever our commercial deals it will always be difficult for us to properly compete.

Agree about effort and entertainment and with the talent we have we should be doing better than we have so far this season. That said...we're 4 points off 2nd place. No-one has been that consistent so far apart from Chelsea. We have a run of winnable games coming up. It's very early days yet. Wenger was never getting sacked after last season, this season we've been wobbling but it's far too early to be pushing the panic button just yet.

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I don't blame City or Chelsea for doing what they've done

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I do. Just as everyone would have blamed us if we'd allowed Saddam Hussein to buy the club. A Russian mobster and a bunch of Arab thieves? Kind of predictable wht these bastards would do to the game.

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Like I said, I am not saying we beat them left right and center (it'd be great if we could).. all I am asking is that a team filled with that much talent at least entertain and put in an effort.

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Same here. Our footie is boring shit, excluding those few moments when the individuals rise above the drab tactics. I want the exciting football back more than I want trophies.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I do. Just as everyone would have blamed us if we'd allowed Saddam Hussein to buy the club. A Russian mobster and a bunch of Arab thieves? Kind of predictable wht these bastards would do to the game.

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Fair enough, but it's easy to take the moral high ground when we were one of the 'haves'. What was the other option if they wanted to get up there?

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Originally Posted by Letters

Fair enough, but it's easy to take the moral high ground when we were one of the 'haves'. What was the other option if they wanted to get up there?

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Work like we did. Build a fan base like we did. Work on home-grown talent and a world class scouting network like we did. Build a sustainable model, like we did. Over time, like we did. A decade.