Arsenal v Chelsea Match Reaction

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

So if his irresponsible and negligent gamble pays off, because there's simply nobody else among the top dogs who can get their season together or none of the smaller clubs can maintain the pace, he stays. But if his irresponsible and negligent gamble fails, then he goes. Is that it?

---

I want us to compete for the title, I think we're good enough to, we've got the money to compete so we should be doing so.
It wasn't a 'gamble' last summer, he clearly tried to sign outfield players and didn't manage to. But if we fail because of that then he should be sacked.
If we win the league then it would be nice if he stepped aside, it would be a good way to go out. But I don't think many title winning managers would be sacked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/...psrbdqmncq.jpg

Theo Walnut

---

:haha:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

What about the mental fitness of the manager? Do we just assume Wenger knows what he's doing, in light of the performance yesterday for example? He keeps doing the same thing and we keep churning out the same result. Didn't somebody once say that's the definition of insanity?

---

I don't think I am in a position to discuss Wenger's mental fitness .He has a board of Directors above him who should assess everything about him before deciding he is fit for the job .We may end up saying everyone involved in running Arsenal Football Club is not mental fit . That will bring another question about fans : why the hell are these people supporting a team run by an unfit board and an unfit manager ? Are they mentally fit too ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alpha

I don't think I am in a position to discuss Wenger's mental fitness .He has a board of Directors above him who should assess everything about him before deciding he is fit for the job .We may end up saying everyone involved in running Arsenal Football Club is not mental fit . That will bring another question about fans : why the hell are these people supporting a team run by an unfit board and an unfit manager ? Are they mentally fit too ?

---

You do have to be a bit screwed in the head to be a fan these days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kano

Yes it is our best chance to win the league in a long time. But by some distance? No, that’s based on outdated clichéd ideas of where the game is in this country right now. We have maintained our level from previous seasons, if you look at the points season on season, we’re pretty much on a par. We do not exist in a vacuum. The quality of the league remains relative no matter who you are talking about – City, Utd, Arsenal, Leicester – and so the performance levels of all the teams – including ours – will be affected. So we remain the same, rather than improving and everyone else has gradually declined year on year. It hasn’t suddenly occurred for one freak season. It's easy to find excuses for other teams rather than our own but I bet on fan forums everywhere, the reverse is taking place.

---

I find it very difficult to follow what you are trying to say. The quality of the league does not remain relative. In 2 of the past 3 completed seasons, we have had Manure (2012/13) and the Chavs (2014/15) pretty much ran away with the league. Why? Because they were significantly better than anyone else - in terms of results. In each of these seasons, with the exception of 2013/14, when Liverpool gatecrashed the party, the same teams finished top 4.

This season 2 of those teams have imploded, and the other has lost its focus. Surely its obvious that Arsenal, not having been affected by the factors that have caused problems for the usual top 3 or 4 teams, should be taking advantage? I simply cannot see why an admittedly poor league this year should prevent this - in fact even if we had no reason to expect to move on from last season, we should be doing better than we are with our traditional competitors dropping ponts. What you are saying is completely counter-intuitive.

And I have pointed out why we should not be staying still, we should have upped our game. 3 established world class players vs none in previous seasons mean we should be taking points that we have failed to take in previous seasons...and (given Citeh's dropped points) we should be well clear. There may be a case for Leicester being closer than the rest given their astonishing season - but to be 3 points behind them at this stage, with no clear water between us and Citeh has to count as under achievement, for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

You could say last 10 years, I could say last 2 years. Both are 'true' but neither paint the full picture. I do think we should have won a cup or two before 2 years ago, maybe a title. There were times when Wenger should have been sacked for his failings. But comparing the last couple of years to the 8 years before that is simplistic, it takes no account of the change in our financial muscle, it's no co-incidence that the trophies started being won after we started signing players like Ozil and Sanches.

We should have done more last summer, Cech was a good signing but we needed more. If that costs us a title challenge then Wenger should be sacked.
But saying 'challenge' is not a get out clause. I don't think we have a better squad than other contenders so why would I expect us to be waltzing to the title? I do think we have a squad good enough to compete, I expect us to. I don't think sacking a manager who has us level on points with the team many are proclaiming as champions elect is a sensible move. I do think if we drop away and fail to challenge till the end he should be sacked though.

---

We probably don't have a better squad than Manure; the Chavs or Citeh - but 2 of them have fucked up, and the other doesn't seem interested in winning...so we should be making like a hell of a lot easier than we are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IBK

I find it very difficult to follow what you are trying to say. The quality of the league does not remain relative. In 2 of the past 3 completed seasons, we have had Manure (2012/13) and the Chavs (2014/15) pretty much ran away with the league. Why? Because they were significantly better than anyone else - in terms of results. In each of these seasons, with the exception of 2013/14, when Liverpool gatecrashed the party, the same teams finished top 4.

This season 2 of those teams have imploded, and the other has lost its focus. Surely its obvious that Arsenal, not having been affected by the factors that have caused problems for the usual top 3 or 4 teams, should be taking advantage? I simply cannot see why an admittedly poor league this year should prevent this - in fact even if we had no reason to expect to move on from last season, we should be doing better than we are with our traditional competitors dropping ponts. What you are saying is completely counter-intuitive.

And I have pointed out why we should not be staying still, we should have upped our game. 3 established world class players vs none in previous seasons mean we should be taking points that we have failed to take in previous seasons...and (given Citeh's dropped points) we should be well clear. There may be a case for Leicester being closer than the rest given their astonishing season - but to be 3 points behind them at this stage, with no clear water between us and Citeh has to count as under achievement, for me.

---

Of course it remains relative - because we're in it. You're implying in those campaigns that both teams raced away not to be seen early on - from memory that didn't happen when Utd won the title. So we're talking about one case here, Chelsea last season, which is hardly a pattern. That just reinforces my point.

What factors have affected City? This idea of sacking is ridiculous when you are talking about a man so experienced, someone who saw out his time at Madrid under even more intense pressure. Their team is made up of the usual mercenaries we all have in our teams, no players for life. They aren't worried about stability of management because they all move around like rats themselves. No excuses for City at all, if we're not supposed to be immune from them. We have remained as we have in previous seasons while the rest have dropped off. Well, only Chelsea in reality. Liverpool were junk last season, as were Utd (in comparative terms). You also have to the take into consideration the approach of everyone we are playing - something vastly overlooked when talking about your own team. Which is why I keep mentioning that their is a level of organisational parity in football now and mostly technique wins through. Which is why Aguero or Alexis, Vardy or Kane stand out as making the clearest differences.

There has been a vast decline in the quality of football in this country that has been going on for years. At the same time the organisational level of teams has improved, so it isn't enough to roll out the list of high class players in each time and expect that to be enough. Last season we had Ozil and Alexis, so three world class players haven't appeared in this team suddenly. We added Cech and as such, we've seen a relative improvement compared to last season given our position and point increase (I think).

The best will rise to the top, as we can see when you look at the table, but the gap is not apparent as it once was. This season was waiting to happen and it will continue, so this expectation that we will rise above it makes no sense. If the general standard of play has declined - a couple of weekends viewing of TV matches would confirm that - then how can a team that has hardly changed expect to improve so dramatically and stand so clearly above the averageness? Buy and improve each season was the old mantra wasn't it? So Wenger fuck up in the summer by not buying? Of course but that's another discussion. Maureen did it by bringing in 3 key players and the effect was instant. City spend habitually but have yet to find the right man that fits their club that can make them a consistent outfit to win the PL, per Utd or Chelsea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kano

Of course it remains relative - because we're in it. You're implying in those campaigns that both teams raced away not to be seen early on - from memory that didn't happen when Utd won the title. So we're talking about one case here, Chelsea last season, which is hardly a pattern. That just reinforces my point.

What factors have affected City? This idea of sacking is ridiculous when you are talking about a man so experienced, someone who saw out his time at Madrid under even more intense pressure. Their team is made up of the usual mercenaries we all have in our teams, no players for life. They aren't worried about stability of management because they all move around like rats themselves. No excuses for City at all, if we're not supposed to be immune from them. We have remained as we have in previous seasons while the rest have dropped off. Well, only Chelsea in reality. Liverpool were junk last season, as were Utd (in comparative terms). You also have to the take into consideration the approach of everyone we are playing - something vastly overlooked when talking about your own team. Which is why I keep mentioning that their is a level of organisational parity in football now and mostly technique wins through. Which is why Aguero or Alexis, Vardy or Kane stand out as making the clearest differences.

There has been a vast decline in the quality of football in this country that has been going on for years. At the same time the organisational level of teams has improved, so it isn't enough to roll out the list of high class players in each time and expect that to be enough. Last season we had Ozil and Alexis, so three world class players haven't appeared in this team suddenly. We added Cech and as such, we've seen a relative improvement compared to last season given our position and point increase (I think).

The best will rise to the top, as we can see when you look at the table, but the gap is not apparent as it once was. This season was waiting to happen and it will continue, so this expectation that we will rise above it makes no sense. If the general standard of play has declined - a couple of weekends viewing of TV matches would confirm that - then how can a team that has hardly changed expect to improve so dramatically and stand so clearly above the averageness? Buy and improve each season was the old mantra wasn't it? So Wenger fuck up in the summer by not buying? Of course but that's another discussion. Maureen did it by bringing in 3 key players and the effect was instant. City spend habitually but have yet to find the right man that fits their club that can make them a consistent outfit to win the PL, per Utd or Chelsea.

---

Slightly clearer. Of course, our performance over a season can only be relative to the other teams in our league, but so what? This doesn't mean anything. We are either better than our competitors and win the league, or we are not, and we won't.


The question we are considering is whether we should be winning the league comfortably this season? I have explained why I think we should. In a sense my speculation about City is irrelevant. I think that their mercenary players look disinterested on the whole - particularly their defenders without Kompany organising them on so many occasions - and I think that it is inevitable with players like this who see the writing on the wall for their manager that they drop off. Neverthleless, they have performed nowhere near expectations given the money spent, and the talent available in their strong squad, yet we haven't opened a gap on them.


I accept that the level of football - particularly defending - in the EPL has declined. And it is generally accepted that to improve you need to be playing regularly against top talent. But what you are saying is that despite the improvements to our squad (and we all know that it is only this season where Ozil has started to show his true value - and Alexis has had time to bed in and adapt properly to his teammates) we have declined along with the rest. I think this is the crux of it. We have far less reason to have declined than most of our competitors. In this respect, you can point to lack of signings in the Summer, but you can also point out Wenger's good fortune in having had real, organic improvement with the likes of Coquelin; Bellerin and Monreal.


So for me. Having a shit league should mean that we are doing better than we are. Simple really.


As for other teams' organisational abilities improving - well perhaps. but this hasn't happened overnight - and I think that lower teams' apparently increasing 'shock' results over the established top teams has as much if not more to do with their opponents' shortcomings than it has to do with them narrowing the gap. And I think that fans are justified in looking at our manager and asking why the hell we go season after season without so many of our shortcomings being properly addressed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

I want us to compete for the title, I think we're good enough to, we've got the money to compete so we should be doing so.
It wasn't a 'gamble' last summer, he clearly tried to sign outfield players and didn't manage to. But if we fail because of that then he should be sacked.
If we win the league then it would be nice if he stepped aside, it would be a good way to go out. But I don't think many title winning managers would be sacked.

---

If he wins the league, he should go out on a high.

If he doesn't, he should be sacked, thrown into a wood chipper and then shot into the centre of the sun.

We should have a comfortable lead by now. We've blown it.

We'll be closer to 5th than 1st come March.

Happens all the time. Nosebleed.