Match Reaction vs Bayern Munich (home)

Come on Man give it up, they haven't needed to because they have Costa, Hazard, Kante etc in their squad

You are now going off at a tangent, if you are asking me if I agree that we have mis spent money of course we have. I fear like Zim you are so preoccupied with Wenger that you can't see the woods for the trees.

Hazard, Matic, Costa, Willian what do you think they would have cost Chelsea if they were bought last summer when the tv money inflated the value of every player.

Kante was cheaper because Leicester knew they had no way of keeping him and because he was bought from within the premier league, buying from outside everyone costs twice as much.

When Chelsea need to bring out the chequebook to spend 50-60 million on the next superstar they will.

We can bring in a manager who will spend better than Wenger I hope, but to believe Chelsea cannot whenever it suits them vastly outspend us I don't know what to say to that.

Also Luiz, Alonso, Kante and Batshuyi that's over 100 million just there

Xhaka, Lucas and Mustafi - 90million

Herb, have we or have we not spent more than Chelsea in the last few transfer windows? Have Chelsea spent £200m in their last few transfer windows? Year on year? This is all fact I'm dealing with. All argued upon the parameters you have set regarding expenditure.

Have we spent more money than Chelsea on transfers in the past three seasons? No

Is the net spend greater because of the money they have recouped by selling players like De Bruyne, Luiz and Oscar ? Yes

Have Chelsea assembled a squad by spending money on players that we could not have afforded when they did? Yes

But, but Wenger...but, but small club mentality

Wenger is an incompetent of course, he has built up a ridiculous wage bill for players many of whom have cost us very little in transfer fees....it's a bit of a con trick to give the impression of being parsimonious.

But it doesn't change the fact that we don't have the finances to buy a squad of the quality that Chelsea and Man City have not by a long way, has it done Man City much good? Not really but if one club isn't performing another one of the triumvirate clubs will.

Chelsea if you take the average amount of points they have accumulated are on course to get near to their record points tally of 2004/2005....even with a better manager I think that's beyond us and has been since the invincibles. The disgrace with Wenger is how far we fall short of it.

The parameters I have set were can Chelsea, City and United spend upwards of 180million on players per year.

They clearly can.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Richer as defined by Outgoings minus Generated Income certainly we are richer than Chelsea

Richer as defined by they can spend 150-200million on transfers per season every season than they are far richer than us.

I agree totally with Mentality, but it will only get you so far. I would argue that Diego Simeone has instilled the best mentality in the world into the players of Atletico Madrid and it allowed them to defy the odds and win la liga in 2014, but ultimately they will fall short more often than not because clubs will come in for their best players and Barcelona and Real Madrid can vastly outspend them.

Bayern Munich for sure have a winner's mentality but they also have the attraction of being FC Hollywood the most prestigious club in Germany and can vastly outspend any club in Germany to bring the best players of their rivals to the club, thus how it has always been with them.

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Herb, Mentality is everything. We are one of the richest clubs in the world, located in London, play in the Champions League every season, we have everything in place to succeed and progress into a superclub.

We were sold a dream 10+ years ago that we would be moving to a State of the art stadium to compete with the very best clubs in the world both on and off the pitch. We have gone backwards in Europe, our standing and reputation in the Champions League is in tatters, we are not respected in the competition and rightly so because of our pitiful performances over the past what 6 or 7 years. Gazidis told us we wanted to be like Bayern Munich, we are nowhere near them, the mentality for a start is one of the biggest differences.

It's not just that we appear not to be competing, it's the attitude, the mentality, we do not appear to be doing anything to rectify it. It's not acceptable, this isn't about blindly wanting to win every tournament we enter or wanting to compete with Barca & Real to sign the next Messi or Ronaldo, this is about improving upon what we have, it's about not standing still or stagnating as a Football team, it's about Wenger taking stock of the task at hand and not accepting second best, he needs to be told that this is simply not good enough and that he needs to find solutions and find them fast.

The reality of the situation is that our noisy neighbours who we use to laugh at are now on the verge of overtaking us, many don't want to hear it including myself but hand on heart do we have a better team than the Spuds? I mean really? What makes it worse is all of their best players sign their contracts no problem, we have squad players aswell as our stars desperate for a move away.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Ozil is on 160k

So you don't think that if we signed Sanchez up to a new deal for say 250k, and then we sign Aubemeyang for 60-70million....he is going to demand 300k a week to correspond to the money we have had to shell out to Dortmund. And then Sanchez thinks hang on i want 300k a week, Ozil thinks hang on i want 300k a week

Yeah it would be ameliorated by clearing dross off the wage bill, but long term it's unsustainable. We could arguably do it once, maybe twice....Chelsea, United and City can do it every season.

We know the club's reluctance to put Sanchez on higher contract is because no one can earn more than Wengy chops....but arguably should that not be the case. If we brought in Allegri for instance, isn't he going to want 10 million a year at least?.....won't he also believe that there will be a problem with players following his authority if they earn more than him.

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Well how have the chavs and gypo and Barca and Bayern managed? You make it sound like a uncontainable catastrophic chain reaction. Just one decent player signed and the whole thing goes to hell. That's a bit too close to a Wenger ploy for my liking. Why are we the only club who runs the risk of being annihilated by wage demands? Anyway, it's not a straight FIFA rating shootout. Player contracts are complex and involve a ton of extra shit over and above x amount for turning up on a Saturday. Image rights, bonuses, dues to previous clubs, brown envelope to Blatter and Platini. And then the media takes all of it and shouts so-and-so is on a billion a week.

Regardless. We moved to this stadium to compete. It'd be easier perhaps if these bastards weren't sitting on the largest cash reserve in world football. What good is that cash doing being deflated away as the wage demands increased each year? Either we're in this or we aren't. No point saying yes, we want to compete, and then handing over a fiver and asking for change. If we aren't going to compete then the ticket prices should be slashed.

Too many bullshit excuses at this club and too many times it all seems it's a one way street.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Well how have the chavs and gypo and Barca and Bayern managed? You make it sound like a uncontainable catastrophic chain reaction. Just one decent player signed and the whole thing goes to hell. That's a bit too close to a Wenger ploy for my liking. Why are we the only club who runs the risk of being annihilated by wage demands? Anyway, it's not a straight FIFA rating shootout. Player contracts are complex and involve a ton of extra shit over and above x amount for turning up on a Saturday. Image rights, bonuses, dues to previous clubs, brown envelope to Blatter and Platini. And then the media takes all of it and shouts so-and-so is on a billion a week.

Regardless. We moved to this stadium to compete. It'd be easier perhaps if these bastards weren't sitting on the largest cash reserve in world football. What good is that cash doing being deflated away as the wage demands increased each year? Either we're in this or we aren't. No point saying yes, we want to compete, and then handing over a fiver and asking for change. If we aren't going to compete then the ticket prices should be slashed.

Too many bullshit excuses at this club and too many times it all seems it's a one way street.

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I read how have the chavs, gypos, Bayern and Barca managed. I stopped reading after that.

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Originally Posted by selassie

Herb, Mentality is everything. We are one of the richest clubs in the world, located in London, play in the Champions League every season, we have everything in place to succeed and progress into a superclub.

We were sold a dream 10+ years ago that we would be moving to a State of the art stadium to compete with the very best clubs in the world both on and off the pitch. We have gone backwards in Europe, our standing and reputation in the Champions League is in tatters, we are not respected in the competition and rightly so because of our pitiful performances over the past what 6 or 7 years. Gazidis told us we wanted to be like Bayern Munich, we are nowhere near them, the mentality for a start is one of the biggest differences.

It's not just that we appear not to be competing, it's the attitude, the mentality, we do not appear to be doing anything to rectify it. It's not acceptable, this isn't about blindly wanting to win every tournament we enter or wanting to compete with Barca & Real to sign the next Messi or Ronaldo, this is about improving upon what we have, it's about not standing still or stagnating as a Football team, it's about Wenger taking stock of the task at hand and not accepting second best, he needs to be told that this is simply not good enough and that he needs to find solutions and find them fast.

The reality of the situation is that our noisy neighbours who we use to laugh at are now on the verge of overtaking us, many don't want to hear it including myself but hand on heart do we have a better team than the Spuds? I mean really? What makes it worse is all of their best players sign their contracts no problem, we have squad players aswell as our stars desperate for a move away.

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Mentality is often not enough without money, Money is significantly dented without Mentality. You need both.

People laud Simeone because of Atletis mentality, but they have not been able to break the two club domination in Spain of Barca and Real....that's not a failing. It's just understanding that money is the most important factor in the game, not the only one but the most important for sure.

I think honestly some users on here are frightened to face this reality because it will appear like an excuse for Wenger. We can definitely do better, we can compete but without Kroenke paying out of his pocket we won't be able to break the city-United-Chelsea hegemony, anymore than Atletico can break the Real-Barca one.

https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/page...ey-league.html

It's pretty easy to see that not only do we have an incompetent manager but, relatively speaking, we also have an incompetent executive. Check the figures. You can quickly see where the top clubs are getting the bulk of their revenue. Then compare us. Somebody is not doing their job, but that's hardly anything new at Arsenal.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Mentality is nothing without money, Money is significantly dented without Mentality. You need both.

People laud Simeone because of Atletis mentality, but they have not been able to break the two club domination in Spain of Barca and Real....that's not a failing. It's just understanding that money is the most important factor in the game, not the only one but the most important for sure.

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We have enough funds to succeed, certainly in the Prem.

Are you comparing La Liga to the Prem? As it stands we don't have any equivalents to Barca and Real in the Prem, there are no dominant teams.