Benitez
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Benitez
I agree about the budget, but that's what makes keeping Emery on even more nonsensical, we need to qualify for the CL or it will really affect us financially due to these deals we deferred paying until the coming seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
I'm not sure we can't afford a top manager however, Wenger himself was on big bucks, I think it's more that we don't want someone who may question our methods and make it too hard for the guys above and if you look at the guys we're linked with they all appear to be exactly that.
I'm not entirely against a younger manager if that's the only option to replace Emery, but for me it would be someone who has at least proven to be half decent, someone who has managed, Vieira for example, not someone like Arteta who it totally unproven and whose only qualifications is hearsay from some of his friends.
Mate, I don't think you'll find anyone who doesn't agree that keeping Emery on is nonsensical! The only reason I can think of that he's still here is that we don't have a suitable replacement lined up, or even a caretaker ready to step in. Beyond that, I really can't see what anyone at the club thinks is going to be gained by delaying the call? I've literally never seen any coach turn things around when they're this far gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
When I say we can't afford one of the top managers, I meant that I don't think we'd have the funds to back their plans in any significant way right now. Which I think might be the same thing that you're getting at when you suggest that we don't want anyone who will start making a lot of big demands of the guys upstairs? I guess there are a couple of assets there that we could sell to fund a modest rebuild, but mostly I think we'll be pitching this as a 'work with what we have' type gig (at least to start with), which probably isn't going to appeal to anyone of a certain calibre.
Who knows though? Maybe we'll get lucky and find someone who's up for the challenge, and wants the glory of being the one to finally solve the Arsenal riddle.
It took Spurs 12 hours to find a replacement for Pochettino, they sacked him and replaced him in the morning, it seems to me the problem with Arsenal is that they are so slow at doing anything (remember the transfer sagas that went on for months and how long we took to get rid of Wenger), that by the time they do the ship has sailed and they are left behind. Why is it always this club that can't do this and can't do that, why do we always have to watch other clubs gettingtheir business done with minimum fuss whilst we just drag it out a ridiculous amount of time. Emery shouldn't even have made it to this season after last seasons collapse, but given that he did he should have been sacked and replaced several weeks ago now, we had an International breakample time to find a replacement.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
At the end of the day we're a big club, we should have no problem attracting a decent manager if we really want one, unfortunately what we seem to want is to pay peanuts so we can maximise our profits, it's a false economy of course as that usually leads to lack of success on the pitch and less money, for years we've been cutting corners for once I wish we would do things properly like other clubs.
I look at Spurs and see that they sacked a manager who took them to the CL final last season, has been qualifying for the CL every season and generally progressed the club, it didn't take them long, they acted whilst there was time to recover and brought in a guy who some may not like but let's be honest is a winner, so far it's worked out well for them, it'll probably also mean they'll be able to attract better quality signings as Mourinho is certainly an inspirational manager for a lot of players, they look at his past record of success and see someone who is a winner and brings success, this isn't good news for us to be honest and I'm amazed people were happy to see him go there, I was hoping they'd appoint some 2nd rate manager like we invariably will.
Once again, the answer's Freddie as caretaker then appoint someone new once we've found someone we are really happy with.
Allegri's out for me as we can't have another manager who can't speak English and am still not sure about Arteta.
Or if Freddie's really good we appoint him full-time, but only after the season's ended.
In fairness, while I agree with you re Spurs, and applaud them for making a quick and decisive decision, I think that this was made because Mourinho was available and not independently of it. It was made also because Spurs have a massive stadium debt to pay off, and cannot afford not to finish out of the top 4 this season. It is a gamble that could yet go wrong if their new manager loses the plot like he did at Manure, but I can see the logic of his appointment and am nervous about what he will achieve for them this season, even thiough personally I would not have him at our club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
I do agree with IAI's posts above, though. As I've explained, I don't think the board did too much wrong in appointing Emery in the first place, and them backing him with player aquisitions in the Summer. It hasn't worked out, but hindsight is a wonderful thing, and as IAI says, we are where we are - with a mess that has many aspects, not all of which are instantly solveable - or at least not with the money likely to be available to the club after a few years out of the CL. It's easy to speculate about what Arsenal should be doing in theory, and legitimate I suppose to complain that we aren't opening the cash floodgates to spend our way out of trouble, but we HAVE spent on players and wages recently, and look how that has worked out. We can look at other clubs, but I think the reality is that some decisions - both player wise and manager wise have worked, and an equal proportion of decisions have not. That is football.
I continue to feel that some of our woes can be addressed if Emery is replaced sensibly and straight away without breaking the bank for an illustrious name as manager. I would even accept Freddie as caretaker if he can get his licence. After that I would be content to wait and see what happens, because the realistic alternative is that Emery stays and runs our club into the ground.
Freddie might not be an option - doesn't have his full Uefa licence yet, so he'd only be allowed to do the job for a maximum of 3 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
The biggest evidence of a club that wants to make progress to me is Leicester City. They sacked Nigel Pearson despite them escaping relegation and then sacked Ranieri after he won them the PL title!!! They didnt then just sit there.. they appointed 5 other managers before they landed on Rodgers. If it doesnt work, move on.
We on the other hand cant tell our ass from our elbows and are constantly lumbering around with dead beat managers well beyond their expiration date.
Benitez... done the job before... won the CL and EL. the Chinese league season finishes end of this week.
He would get the team organised and improve us defensively and who says not make us more competitive and consistent even if its a 18 month contract
Leicester are actually a great example of what we should be aiming for. Nothing they're doing there is über-expensive or unachievable - it's just smart. Everything they're doing is smart.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
Also worth noting with Leicester that it's not just about the decisive choices that they've made with managers - like Liverpool, they also haven't been afraid to sell on key assets and reinvest the money back into the squad to keep it evolving.
Yes the trouble is we're terrible at that too, often letting our most valuable assets run down their contracts and losing them for a cut price fee or worse nothing. We've got two more of our biggest asset who will have one year left come the summer, so it seems to be happening all over again, we never learn, yet oddly we decided to offer new contracts to Xhaka a player with no real world value in the transfer market.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
Totally agree and we're so slow to do anything, we just sit there and watch the world go by and miss opportunity after opportunity to get a decent manager in, again with Emery we're just blindly sticking with him hoping for some kind of miraculous turn around that isn't going to happen, because let's be honest here the guy doesn't have a clue.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
I'm pretty shocked that in 18 months of learning English this hasn't really improved, I'm not against a manager that doesn't speak English as long as they are capable of learning it, isn't that what Conte did at Chelsea.
The difference is that the owner of Leicester is aspirational. He bought the club with ambitions. He isnt like Kroenke who is all business. The Thai guys want to box well above their weight. Not Mike Ashley who wants to get by with as little investment as possible. Just staying in the EPL gives you bounteous financial rewards if you dont go spending recklesly. Kroenke will only act if his bottom line is being affected. He isnt in it for the glory, Thats why a docile fanbase like ours is just perfect. Left to Kroenke. top half every year is just fine. Spurs need CL money. They are screwed without it. thats why they just had to act.
ah, didn't know that... :(Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
that's interesting - can we hope that's what the Board have been waiting for...? :pray:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumble
Agreed that Leicester have been smart. More importantly perhaps they have fostered a spirit of togetherness and optimism that we haven't had at Arsenal for years. Time and time again it has been proven that a club where all the parts are moving as one will have success on the pitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
If we are being fair, however, we have to remember that Leicester are a smaller club punching above their weight, and the pressure on them is so much lower than at our club. A success story like Leicester is a rarity rather than the norm. If we want to look at traditionally bigger clubs we need to consider the shambles at Manure; Everton; West Ham and even until recently Spurs (won nothing, still below us in the league) for some balance, and an indication of how difficult it is to get things right. Let's not forget that Rogers was mooted by some for the Arsenal job before Emery was appointed and if IIRC the the idea received a lukewarm reception, at least on here. its easy to be wise after the event. Remember that he ultimately fell short at Liverpool. There is a goldilocks aspect to football management, and maybe Leicester are more suited to his management than a bigger club?
Should we aspire to the progress made by Leicester? Of course. But as you say, they have been through a lot of managers, and each time that happens there is a risk that things will blow up. I'm not as critical of Arsenal's choices until the last few weeks as most, but feel that real criticism will apply if the club does not take decisive action now. It was almost unprecedented having to deal with the end of the Wenger dynasty (the only parallel was Manure and look at how that turned out despite the vast sums spent there), and trying to take a measured view, I feel that some of the accusations leveled at our club hierarchy border on the unfair.
If we don't do anything about our present clusterfuck however, my 'defence' of the club will evaporate.
Yeah, I agree. We've let this weird mentality btake root at the club where we seem to think that being a big club means clinging on to our best players for dear life, and I think it often either paralyses us into indecision or pushes us to make desperate offers. For me, being a big club should be the exact opposite of that - we should be able to move any player on at any moment and not even break stride. And it should always be on our terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
I agree with you. At Arsenal I think that this mentality has arisen out of a feeling that we cannot compete finacially for the very best, proven players and therefore an innate nervousness about whether the lower tier players that we can attract will measure up. The irony is that our wage bill (partly as a result of our approach) is the fourth (?) highest in the league :yikes:Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
:good:Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
Perhaps my biggest concern for Arsenal right now is the constant, pervasive anxiety I sense emanating from every section of the club about making it into the CL spots each year, and the pressure that it's putting us under. Let's be clear, that pressure isn't come from pride or ambition, which I'd be absolutely fine with - it's coming from fear of financial repercussions. Quite simply, we're living beyond our means right now, and the decisions we've been making are starting to look like theyre increasingly being driven by panic and desperation (e.g. handing out contracts that we can't afford because we're afraid to lose players, taking the safe option with Emery when we might have gone with a bolder choice, blowing next year's budget on trying to make it into the CL this year, etc).
I'm almost at the point now where I think we might need to strip this squad back to the younger players and anyone on less than 100k/wk, so we can lose that financial millstone that's hanging round our necks and reset. Give ourselves a bit of room to breath so we can start to make smart, considered, progressive choices again, and get back to a place where we want to be amongst the best, but where we don't necessarily have to be in order to keep the place running.
I don't think the manager merry-go-round should phase anyone - that's just how the process is for everyone these days. As you say, whether they realise it or not, all clubs are looking for that 'Goldilocks' candidate that is just right for them, and that is always going to involve an element of trial and error. Clubs like Leicester are still more than capable of making the poor hires, as they've shown, but where they're getting it right, and where we're getting it wrong, is that they are far more decisive about moving the wrong people on when it's not working out.
Absolutely! The idea that we can't compete is nonsense. Even without CL income or Stan's input, there's options there for us with the assets we have - we've just lost our bottle.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
20 years ago we didn't bat an eyelid at breaking up a double-winning side to rebuild - we sold Anelka, Overmars and Petit in quick succession and then went out and brought in Henry, Pires, Ljungberg and Gilberto. And turned a profit! Liverpool and Leicester have done exactly the same in recent years. For me, a big club mentality is feeling comfortable in selling Suarez, Sterling and Coutinho because you know you can bring in Salah, Mane and Firmino and they'll work. It's being comfortable selling Kante and Mahrez and reinvesting in Ndidi, Maddison, Tielemans, Soyuncu, etc. Question is, do we have anyone left at our club with the nerve (and the competence) to do something similar?
Things will never change until we get an owner who understands and cares
the board are going to meet today..... emery is going to go #fingerscrossed
Emery is gone!
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1983/01...1970410331600/
GP... <_<
:wwf:
Ornstein saying its likely to happen today now. :pray:
Been refreshing BBC and Sky Sports constantly just waiting for the news...:pray:
And now he is.
https://www.arsenal.com/news/unai-emery-leaves-club
Confirmed. Weeks too late but thank god its happened.
:wave:
#WengerIn!
RiochQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Maybe, but at least it's weeks too late not months or years. Good sign that the board aren't going to mess around any more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooner23
Thank god.
He was bloody dreadful. Nice guy and not suddenly bad coach overnight but he wasn’t even close to being a good fit for us.
Emery. :wave:
Now, who’s next...:popcorn:
#RafaIn
Freddie’s at the wheel. :bow:
Let’s hope his car is better than whatever the fuck Ole is driving.
Rioch was much less rubbish than some people give him credit for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumble
At last, we've finally got rid of him, took us long enough, should be the end of Xhaka too who should have never played last night.
Hopefully we find someone decent this time and don't do ouur usual and look for the cheap option.
Thank god he's gone :dance:
Now let's get playing some decent football and make the best of a good squad - pity our next game isn't at home but hopefully Freddie can get a decent performance out of them at Norwich
Hopefully we get a new manager in soon, don't want to deliberate too much about it.
He got the sack unfairly to be honest, he brought Bergkamp and Platt in and almost got Juninho (what a player he turned out to be). Thought he did a decent job and didn't deserve to be sacked at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
:o Weirdly, I agree with you for once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
I think we treated him pretty poorly, he was used as a stopgap between Graham and Wenger. He did pretty well although he wouldn't have taken us to the places Wenger took us to.