Match Reaction - Farmer Giles and the Gang 1-1 Arsenal

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I’m not sure you understand. If you look at Dortmund when under Klopp or Atletico Madrid. Do you think the drive to be the best came from the Board? Did they appoint those managers and demand the league be wrestled away from the mega rich Real Madrid, Barca or Bayern? Bearing in mind they didn’t have the budget to compete on those terms. Going even further back to when we appointed Wenger, was the demand put on him to win the league from Man Utd, or did we just spot a talented manager with potential?

I don’t think anyone here really cares about the ownership of the club anymore. We have two crooked billionaires on the Board anyway and it’s been accepted when before most fans wanted us to stay British owned. I think most fans let go of a utopia a long time ago. The American is taking money out of club and Jabba has a sketchy past like the rest of the oil baron owners. It’s all been accepted already.

---

I understand perfectly. I just think you are wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IBK

I think you are missing the point. As I explained earlier, its not a question of owners being genuine enthusiasts - its a question of them having a commercial vision/template that will accept nothing less than success. Generally, football fans really couldn't care less whether success is a by product of a boardroom business model. It is Arsenal fans who have been brainwashed into thinking that 'buying' success is somehow less valid. So we come to the manager, and I genuinely believe that a Wenger in his prime might upset the odds and win things with us despite our business model being to play the percentages and do the absolute minimum in terms of investment to keep us there or thereabouts (let's not get into the fact that there is, and has been NO outside investment in our club - the owner only takes). In this respect a Wenger in his prime would be equivalent to us having a Klopp; Guardiaola or Simeone now. But our manager is tired; inflexible and messianistic - and ultimately content to accept the same as our owners - albeit for different reasons.

---

That's a :gp:

I'm thinking along the same lines.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kano

I understand perfectly. I just think you are wrong.

---

Care elaborate? Wrong about what exactly?

Rightyho then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Care elaborate? Wrong about what exactly?

---

He's cleverer than you are :whistle:

Maybe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kano

Well of course, I don't need a 101 about that. The drive to be the best comes from the absolute top of the club, just like any CEO or MD given the autonomy to shape a company's direction. They employ the head of departments that get them the results the board demand. But fans need to realise there is no utopia to be found here. Just one crook after the other running our club from here on in. Then it comes down to what you are willing to ignore for self satisfaction as a fan because we're all invested for our own selfish reasons primarily. Stick with our current lot and be teased by success or owned by a cunt who turns us into their toy. That's where we are for good now and both sides require fans to swallow down a lot of bullshit they hadn't bargained for.

---

Or maybe some of us want a middle ground?

That middle ground can actually come from the Manager because ultimately he is in control of the Footballing side of things. As said by IBK, PnG & others, if we take the owners out of this debate it's Wenger who is the bottleneck here, he's not doing a bad job, far from it, he's just doing enough to keep us in the same position every single year, he's by no means handicapped though, he makes the decisions and ultimately that's why we are where we are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

Could we do better? Maybe, but not as easily as some people think, some of the names bandied about on here in the last few yeas are laughable. Is he as incompetent as some on here make out? Obviously not.

---

Dont Agree. Could we do better? Absolutely yes. Is he as incompetent as some on here make out? Not as incompetent as some of the hyperbole used (many by me) but when you compare him to the standards of where a club like Arsenal should be, yes, he is incompetent.

EDIT: I will add that your views on standards of where Arsenal should be can vary significantly than me. My view is that Arsenal has every resource possible to be challenging the Madrids, Barcas and Bayerns of the world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fakeyank

My view is that Arsenal has every resource possible to be challenging the Madrids, Barcas and Bayerns of the world.

---

Hmm. They may do now but that certainly hasn't been so for the last 10 years.
I think we agree that Wenger was overly frugal at times but I don't think we had the resources to challenge properly till the new financial deals were in place.
City and Chelsea have got as much money as they want and they're not challenging those sides.

Whatever you think of Wenger he's kept us reasonably competitive, we're finally winning trophies again and we're in great financial shape where teams like Real have huge debts.
He's hardly the bumbling incompetent some on here make out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

Hmm. They may do now but that certainly hasn't been so for the last 10 years.
I think we agree that Wenger was overly frugal at times but I don't think we had the resources to challenge properly till the new financial deals were in place.
City and Chelsea have got as much money as they want and they're not challenging those sides.

Whatever you think of Wenger he's kept us reasonably competitive, we're finally winning trophies again and we're in great financial shape where teams like Real have huge debts.
He's hardly the bumbling incompetent some on here make out.

---

Think of Dortmund in the last five years or Atletico for the last few years. They have managed to be among the big boys despite having meager resources.. how did that happen? Its because they had good managers. Yes, financially we have been better in the last 3 years but we could have and should have done much better while we didnt have the millions we had. We have plateaued under Wenger and he is not the answer for the club.

Btw, in a related topic of why we wont win the PL this season.. I will most likely be coming to London in February for either the games against Southampton or the one against Leicester. I was 90% sure we wont win the title.. I am 100% certain now! :lol: