Match reaction - Man City

I think the only sensible conclusion is that

Money prevented us from competing every season
Wenger prevented us from competing any season

Even in the 07/08 season which I maintain we should have won, didn’t compete past February due to winning 1 game in 8 between February and April.

Going that far back I supported Wenger as manager then, but still held him not money responsible for that capitulation.

I'd agree with that. But I don't think it was a gimme that Wenger+Money would still fail. And those pretending they knew that all along, most of us were encouraged by the first FA Cup and hoped we would push on.
I should add that a lot of Wenger's failings have always been there.
He was never a good tactician. He was never a good motivator. He never signed the right players after we'd been successful (hence never retaining the title).
When you've got better, fitter players than everyone else and a strong captain it masks a lot of that, but those things were always there, looking back.

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Originally Posted by Letters

People were claiming all kinds of things about how we would decline under Wenger, plenty said we'd slip into mid-table. Last season was our worst finish under Wenger and even then we only missed out on 4th place by 2 points and we won the FA Cup.

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Here we go:lol: the positive spin begins:lol:

Can't have a thread turning into pure hate towards your messiah can we now! :haha:

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Wenger was thrown under a bus, apparently.

Excuse after excuse rattled off for him back then. All to mask his flawed approach where the seeds were planted 10 years ago and now those plants are bearing fruit.

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There were so many. It can be excused because we didn’t have much information back then but in light of what we see today, I look back at the situation with RVP and wonder why we sold to Utd instead of holding on to him. There is no way we needed the money that badly considering we signed new sponsorship deals the season after.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

Was it not said that Wenger was not said that Wenger had way more influence over the Board that you guys were making out?

Was it not said that he was a poor tactician?

Was it not said that he’d not be able to handle star players with egos because of his soft man management, hence why he goes for less known players?

Was it not said that he’d still fuck things up even if he had money to spend?

Was it not said that he’s he puts the interest of Board over the interest of the Arsenal fans?

A lot has been said over the years and goes way beyond the results and us dropping down the table.

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Best post on here tbh

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Wenger was thrown under a bus, apparently.

Excuse after excuse rattled off for him back then. All to mask his flawed approach where the seeds were planted 10 years ago and now those plants are bearing fruit.

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The latest one is he needs to stay because he's the only one that cares :lol: suppose they have to cling onto anything they can :lol:

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Originally Posted by Letters

I'd agree with that. But I don't think it was a gimme that Wenger+Money would still fail. And those pretending they knew that all along, most of us were encouraged by the first FA Cup and hoped we would push on.
I should add that a lot of Wenger's failings have always been there.
He was never a good tactician. He was never a good motivator. He never signed the right players after we'd been successful (hence never retaining the title).
When you've got better, fitter players than everyone else and a strong captain it masks a lot of that, but those things were always there, looking back.

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'Hope we push on' doesn't mean we were convinced we'd push on. You confuse the two. I hope we win every single game but that doesn't mean I'm convinced we'll do it.

I couldn’t see any reason to believe he would progress with money

I didn’t back the three years between 2014 and 2017. However I conceded that despite disappointments and frustrations he had kept us stable during the time and it was a reward for that to say here’s some money you have three years to give us some indication of progress.

Now would clubs like city, Chelsea or United been so generous?. No but there it is

Whilst I didnt support it I think there was some justification for that contract in 2014. There is absolutely none now.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I think the only sensible conclusion is that

Money prevented us from competing every season
Wenger prevented us from competing any season

Even in the 07/08 season which I maintain we should have won, didn’t compete past February due to winning 1 game in 8 between February and April.

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Agree with that conclusion.

2008 and 2016 we definitely should have got closer. I’d also throw in 2011 and 2014. 2011 we fell apart after the League Cup final defeat only winning something like 2 out of 10 games and in 2014 we spent the most amount of days in 1st only to somehow contrive to finish 4th.

All those collapses came at different stages of Wenger’s tenure, with or without money he has struggled since the league became more competitive.

If Wenger was never a good tactician, if he was never a good motivator, and if it's a gimme he'd fail in the transfer market despite having money...

Who developed the best attacking football this country has seen?
Who kept the team firing through an unbeaten season?
Who signed Henry, Vieira, Overmars, Petit, Henry, Pires?

I think you have hit on something here Letters. Which leads on to a more interesting question. Wenger's real legacy. Who was responsible for the great success we had at the turn of the century, and if it was Wenger, how can he possibly have abandoned everything and laboured so hard to produce this absolute shit show, some of the most boring football ever seen, some of the least ambitious and a team packed with expensive dross? He signed Sanogo instead of Mbappe.

My theory so far is, his early legacy remains intact but he had a mental breakdown. If he carries on, some people might not be so kind in their judgement.