When do we start to believe ?

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Originally Posted by Steve French

Yes, really. The relative performances of the teams in that sample demonstrate the lack of correlation between performance and the transition you are referring to.

In Man City's case, the transition in my view is a plus for them as they clearly had a Manager that was toxic last season.

When you add Everton's performance relative to last season, your argument holds even less water.

As for Chelsea, our league positions relative to them are materially unchanged over the most recent two and a half seasons.

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Have Chelsea or City hit the ground running this season or are you willing to admit their form has been patchy? If they came out the blocks flying like how Everton have, then I’d your point but they haven’t. I don’t want to discredit Pellegrini, but he’s never won a league title so you don’t know how he’ll cope leading the race and this is his first season in England with congested games over the holidays. He’s just lost Aguero to injury so we really can’t say for certain how strong City will be. Chelsea’s form has been patchy and it’s been a while since Jose has coached here. Most people are judging him on his past record but so far they are looking un-Jose like and it may take him a while to get to grips with the team. Martinez has been able to quickly stamp his brand of football on Everton, Jose hasn’t done that at Chelsea and City look inconsistent.

Next Monday is one game but you’re forming an opinion of their run of games and feel a more confident about the result because they’re not playing well. That’s how I feel about the season and why it’s a big opportunity. Like a new signing adjusting to the league, they’re not at their best yet and it may take another summer before they are.

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Originally Posted by Letters To Santa

I answered that. Your argument is that our competitors are in transition but
a) I doubt they'd have seen us as their competitors when we haven't seriously challenged for years.
b) Out of the 3 teams who finished above us last season only one (ManYoo) are well below where they were last year. City are about the same, Chelsea are fairly well ahead of where they were at this time last year.

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How we’re considered by our rivals is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Have Chelsea or City hit the ground running this season or are you willing to admit their form has been patchy? If they came out the blocks flying like how Everton have, then I’d your point but they haven’t. I don’t want to discredit Pellegrini, but he’s never won a league title so you don’t know how he’ll cope leading the race and this is his first season in England with congested games over the holidays. He’s just lost Aguero to injury so we really can’t say for certain how strong City will be. Chelsea’s form has been patchy and it’s been a while since Jose has coached here. Most people are judging him on his past record but so far they are looking un-Jose like and it may take him a while to get to grips with the team. Martinez has been able to quickly stamp his brand of football on Everton, Jose hasn’t done that at Chelsea and City look inconsistent.

Next Monday is one game but you’re forming an opinion of their run of games and feel a more confident about the result because they’re not playing well. That’s how I feel about the season and why it’s a big opportunity. Like a new signing adjusting to the league, they’re not at their best yet and it may take another summer before they are.

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I'm basing my opinion on the cold hard facts presented in Letter's post. They also help to support my perception which is different from yours.

Your perception is not supported by what has actually happened.

If anything, I would feel more confident about Monday if Chelsea were managed by someone other than Mourinho. He seems to have Wenger's number.

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Originally Posted by Steve French

I'm basing my opinion on the cold hard facts presented in Letter's post. They also help to support my perception which is different from yours.

Your perception is not supported by what has actually happened.

If anything, I would feel more confident about Monday if Chelsea were managed by someone other than Mourinho. He seems to have Wenger's number.

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You and Letter's aren't on the same page regarding Monday's game.

What facts? I don't see any.

Jose has experience of winning the Prem but it's his first season back in the Prem and it's showing in the results. We really don't know how long it will take for him to get a handle on his team and so far, the evidence shows that he hasn't got a grip on them yet. It's there in the results.

Pellegrini is a good coach but hasn't won the league before and this is his first season in the Prem. It's uncharted territory for him. You guys are so negative.

"What facts"?

I'm outta here.

http://i43.tinypic.com/1ekk5x.jpg

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Originally Posted by Steve French

"What facts"?

I'm outta here.

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Yes, please do exit if this is beyond you. Actual facts.

This is the very same argument Wenger has with the MOTD pundits.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Not really. His answer regarding the Chelsea game proves my point. Why are they there for the taking on Monday?

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P'n'G, Don't you think Chelsea look vulnerable this season? Even Palace gave them a game on Saturday, Chelsea were pretty lucky to win. This has been "Chelsea" of this season, they are scrapping wins against canon fodder and are losing their fair share too. They look vulnerable in Defence and weak in Central Midfield, it really is the likes of Hazard, Oscar and Schurrle who are saving their asses this season. They are also going through major transistion, the likes of Cech, Terry, Cole & Lampard are done now.

It's gotten to the point where I expect Chelsea to drop points pretty much wherever they go away from home, that's why I believe we must and should beat them on Monday otherwise it really is points wasted.

Monday is a HUGE game for us given the recent events and our current league position, I personally think it's more than just a game, it really could define our season.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Jose has experience of winning the Prem but it's his first season back in the Prem and it's showing in the results. We really don't know how long it will take for him to get a handle on his team and so far, the evidence shows that he hasn't got a grip on them yet. It's there in the results.

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The results which see them with 4 more points than at this stage last season? FACT (little help, there).
Those ones?

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Originally Posted by selassie

P'n'G, Don't you think Chelsea look vulnerable this season? Even Palace gave them a game on Saturday, Chelsea were pretty lucky to win. This has been "Chelsea" of this season, they are scrapping wins against canon fodder and are losing their fair share too. They look vulnerable in Defence and weak in Central Midfield, it really is the likes of Hazard, Oscar and Schurrle who are saving their asses this season. They are also going through major transistion, the likes of Cech, Terry, Cole & Lampard are done now.

It's gotten to the point where I expect Chelsea to drop points pretty much wherever they go away from home, that's why I believe we must and should beat them on Monday otherwise it really is points wasted.

Monday is a HUGE game for us given the recent events and our current league position, I personally think it's more than just a game, it really could define our season.

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I totally agree. It’s not what we’ve come to expect from Chelsea and certainly not one managed by Mourinho. We just don’t know what they’re capable of this season and the same goes for City whereas before we’d know certain results would be bread and butter for our rivals. It’s not so clear cut this year. I’m just hoping we’re stronger mentality the blip we’ve had over the past week is ironed out quickly.