Are the doubters wrong about Wenger?

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Originally Posted by Kano

i think what gets peoples back up is not only the spending but the crude style of football Jose plays. he has had the money at his disposal to purchase the creme of attacking players but his teams continually play the dullest football imaginable. At least City are giving it a go with being entertaining. Stacked up against the constant big mouth moans off the pitch whilst his teams drill their way to success, season after season, Jose brings the criticism upon himself. He has no excuse to spend so much yet produces such droll football. Fergie made the most of his money, of course his team were minted but you can at least offer a begrudging note of admiration for someone who has something to show for all the money spent.

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It’s become all too popular on here to kiss Fergie’s ass now that the rivalry between him and Wenger have simmered. I’m not on it. He’s a good manager but since we’re on the subject of overrated managers and Fergie was thrown into the debate, I’m offering my opinion. Why should I begrudgingly express admiration when we’re on this sort of subject? I don’t like Jose’s brand of football but I can’t remember being a fan of Fergie’s either. If we’re going to talk about ‘anti football’, I remember he was the first to start kicking our team off the park after our Invincible run then every other team was at it. I won’t applaud that. A great motivator but I don’t rate his tactics and I think the constant switching to backroom staff have kept him fresh with ideas.

Jose hasn’t had decades with one club but if he did, I don’t doubt for a second that he’d dominate and achieve just as much when it comes to trophies. Style of football is a matter of personal preference. It’s not as if he buys great attacking players and turns them into duds. Real had some entertaining games with quick counters. I really don’t have much against Jose. He’s just a bit of a jerk but he hasn’t done enough for me to dislike him as much as Fergie.

:doh: The level of Fergie ass kissing is just as bad as the all-out praise Jose keeps getting. It’s nauseating.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

:doh: The level of Fergie ass kissing is just as bad as the all-out praise Jose keeps getting. It’s nauseating.

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As FY would say, I'll just leave this here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Ferguson#Honours

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Originally Posted by Letters

As FY would say, I'll just leave this here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Ferguson#Honours

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What does that have to with the ass kissing? I'm not questioning the accolades. But if we're going to hold up the accolades against the resources and talk about style of football for Jose, it's worth talking about Fergie and holding up the same yardstick.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

It’s become all too popular on here to kiss Fergie’s ass now that the rivalry between him and Wenger have simmered. I’m not on it. He’s a good manager but since we’re on the subject of overrated managers and Fergie was thrown into the debate, I’m offering my opinion. Why should I begrudgingly express admiration when we’re on this sort of subject? I don’t like Jose’s brand of football but I can’t remember being a fan of Fergie’s either. If we’re going to talk about ‘anti football’, I remember he was the first to start kicking our team off the park after our Invincible run then every other team was at it. I won’t applaud that. A great motivator but I don’t rate his tactics and I think the constant switching to backroom staff have kept him fresh with ideas.

Jose hasn’t had decades with one club but if he did, I don’t doubt for a second that he’d dominate and achieve just as much when it comes to trophies. Style of football is a matter of personal preference. It’s not as if he buys great attacking players and turns them into duds. Real had some entertaining games with quick counters. I really don’t have much against Jose. He’s just a bit of a jerk but he hasn’t done enough for me to dislike him as much as Fergie.

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i can't speak for anyone else as i'm only talking from my point of view. i've always respected the man, despite him managing a cunt club with cunty little players. he was a massive cunt too but he knew what he was doing. you'd have to be a fool not to respect a man who can maintain such exceptionally high standards. he kicked the shit out of our team because it generally worked. by the time he retired he certainly held a more favourable record over arsenal because he realised our failings. he adapted when needed, thats how he survived so long. style in football isn’t a matter of preference. there is a generally accepted approach that all people recognise as exciting, which is attacking. the actual style may vary but the mentality is clear. even stoke fans came to the realisation under pulis that their stone age football was only good for so long. football is not all about trophies. that is the ultimate aim and what every club should be aiming for but as a fan you remember far more than just the trophies. well, i would hope that to be the case anyway. otherwise, whats the point?

fergie was recognised for building attacking teams, jose isn't. other fans can respect - not arse kiss as you keep repeating - someone who tries to do that.

At the end of the day, a manager is judged by success and on that basis Ferguson and Mourinho are amongst the very best around, Ferguson himself was full of praise for Jose saying that he's won a phenomenal amount.

That aside what is clear is that he seems to be very tactically astute and does what you would expect good managers to do, affect games with substitutions, tactics etc, whenever a manager comes into a new club it does usually take a couple of seasons to get things working as they want it, initially you inherit someone else's squad and although it's possible to be successful it relies on players adapting and performing as they should.

At most of his clubs within two seasons you've seen the impact he's had. People dislike him and I understand that, but to question his achievements is ridiculous, I agree style of football is important too, but we have a manager who claims his teams are about entertainment and look how poor we are to watch overall.

I also think it's far easier to question a manager who isn't willing to adapt and react to the changing world around him and sacrifices success for rigid principles.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

United's on the field success under Ferguson allowed them to become a bigger and bigger global brand and arguably he was spending the money that he had been influential in generating. Don't get me wrong, United were always a big rich club but the extent of what they've been able to spend is down to what sponsorship deals etc they have been able to harvest from on the pitch success, plus the money they have made from constant champions league qualification.
And whatever we think of Wenger, it's fair to say that when he goes he leaves the club in a monumentally better state than it was in when he joined us. And to dismiss and downplay his role in that would be grossly unfair.

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Okay, I get you. But it’s not like Fergie bought them from nowhere. Maybe someone else can fill in the gaps, but when they were floated on the Stock market in 1991 and the Prem was formed further increasing revenue, that increased their financial power. That’s when they started to dominate under Fergie but the amount of resources he’s given is something out of his control. But let’s put things in perspective, people are questioning Mourinho’s credentials partly because of the resources he’s had access to. You, yourself in another thread, called Brendan Roger’s a cretin and is this very thread you’ve linked his success to have the 3rd best player in the world and spending £100m. So why is it any different for Fergie?

There's almost a resentment on here with other clubs spending money, I'd suggest it's because our own club and manager has for a decade refuse to open the coffers and we've had to watch bargain buys whilst other clubs have seen world class players walk through their doors.

I see there are now excuses as to why Brendan Rodgers is a success, yet if you look he was also successful in relative terms at Swansea, in the end he's put a team together who have proved capable of beating all that's put in front of them and hasn't had to spend huge amounts, yes he has Suarez but he's developed him into the player he is and has also brought other players alongside him to make Liverpool more potent.

In my eyes, he's adapted, changed tactics and analysed the team and looked to improve them in a logical way, I'd expect he'll invest in the defence in the summer as that's the logical thing to do to continue with their current progress, I'm sure it's refreshing for Liverpool to have a manager who does the things that clearly need to be done and addresses issues that are clear to all.

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Originally Posted by Kano

i can't speak for anyone else as i'm only talking from my point of view. i've always respected the man, despite him managing a cunt club with cunty little players. he was a massive cunt too but he knew what he was doing. you'd have to be a fool not to respect a man who can maintain such exceptionally high standards. he kicked the shit out of our team because it generally worked. by the time he retired he certainly held a more favourable record over arsenal because he realised our failings. he adapted when needed, thats how he survived so long. style in football isn’t a matter of preference. there is a generally accepted approach that all people recognise as exciting, which is attacking. the actual style may vary but the mentality is clear. even stoke fans came to the realisation under pulis that their stone age football was only good for so long. football is not all about trophies. that is the ultimate aim and what every club should be aiming for but as a fan you remember far more than just the trophies. well, i would hope that to be the case anyway. otherwise, whats the point?

fergie was recognised for building attacking teams, jose isn't. other fans can respect - not arse kiss as you keep repeating - someone who tries to do that.

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What Jose does works and it’s effective. If Fergie is justified in using roughhouse tactics to beat us, then why single out Mourinho for using what’s effective? You can’t talk about a general accepted approach and then throw that in. The way football is played is down to preference. There are some fans out there that can appreciate a defensive masterclass just as much as a goal fest.

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Originally Posted by Özim

There's almost a resentment on here with other clubs spending money, I'd suggest it's because our own club and manager has for a decade refuse to open the coffers and we've had to watch bargain buys whilst other clubs have seen world class players walk through their doors.

I see there are now excuses as to why Brendan Rodgers is a success, yet if you look he was also successful in relative terms at Swansea, in the end he's put a team together who have proved capable of beating all that's put in front of them and hasn't had to spend huge amounts, yes he has Suarez but he's developed him into the player he is and has also brought other players alongside him to make Liverpool more potent.

In my eyes, he's adapted, changed tactics and analysed the team and looked to improve them in a logical way, I'd expect he'll invest in the defence in the summer as that's the logical thing to do to continue with their current progress, I'm sure it's refreshing for Liverpool to have a manager who does the things that clearly need to be done and addresses issues that are clear to all.

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I'm sorry what's your basis for suggesting that Suarez has developed at all under Rodgers, his scoring rate was very similar to what it was when he was being managed by Kenny Dalglish.
In my eyes Brendan Rodgers will have a lot of adapting to do to his back line and midfield in order to make them competitive next season when he has continental fixtures to contend with. It remains to be seen whether he is up to the task.