Summer Transfer Misery and Recriminations.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I get insulted and patronised by both tribes in the Wenger In/Wenger Out discussion because I dare to think being entrenched on either side is ridiculous.

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I think most of us think it's ridiculous. I know I do. We all have our own opinions but I think we all agree on one thing. There need to be changes at Arsenal in the way that we operate off the pitch and the way we perform on it.

In other news apparently we're going back with a bigger bid for Lacazette. I'm not that convinced about him to be honest. Whenever I've seen him he's never really impressed me. However my desperation for us to sign a striker has now reached such a level that I want us to sign him.

I don't really follow football these days enough to know all the players everywhere but just had a look and Lacazette's stats (stats :bow:) over the last 2 years in particular have been impressive.
Any port in a storm...

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Originally Posted by Letters

I'm not 'making out' anything. Other people have said it.

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Others can speak for themselves. Also, you're part of the GW mod/admin team hence why I'm talking to you in the first place. I'm not trying to change your opinion on Wenger because last season was enough and if you don't see it now, you never will. Draw your own conclusions. But trying to point the finger at a couple of individuals for the nature of this board when you participate on it on a daily and continue to isn't helping. The penny should have dropped by by. Spark a different conversation if it's that bothersome.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Yeah, except in 2013 when there was talk of Wenger signing a new contract you said:



http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/sh...?t=2325&page=3

That was before the FA Cup so after what you're now calling 'shit for years'. So I don't believe you thought it was that bad, it's a lot more nuanced than that with the stadium move and the billionaires coming in and having the biggest impact. The issue for me is that now we have the financial power to properly compete and we're still failing to, that's why he should go. But I'm not going to pretend it's been 12 years of unmitigated failure just to score more "I H8 WUMGER MORE THAN U" points.

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:doh:

But at least we know now it's your comprehension skills that are causing this disconnect. What do you think the 'great for the board' and 'meh for the fans' part of that message is blatantly hinting at?

You do this all the time. You can't find any way to legitimately defend Wenger, because there isn't one, so you trawl back through posts, misinterpret what you find and then try to counter you misinterpretation. Therefore, whatever whoever said in criticism of Wenger is wrong. And now we have a manufactured win for Wenger by implication.

You did the same thing with the 10 points behind by August thing for a large part of the previous season. Bang, bang, bang on that one. Until we eventually did finish 10 points behind... drum roll... Leicester City. Then you went very silent on the matter.

You then top this behaviour off by confusing somebody else into agreeing with you, possibly somebody who hasn't read back on prior exchanges and therefore has to take things at face value. Then you seize on that comment and agree wholeheartedly and the cycle of deception is complete.

Finally, as a cherry for your cake, you nobly call for "balance" in the discussions.

:clap:

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Again i don't think that necessarily implies Wenger is a top manager.

It's just that you chide Wenger for being arrogant, when it's a trait of top managers. You think because Wenger isn't a top manager he should be more humble, but that's more about your disdain for the man....how dare he not meet my expectations and not be contrite about it.

Well hypothetically assume we had a better manager in, and despite having won big trophies had a lean spell for a year or so, do you expect him to be apologetic about it?

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Sorry I don't follow, I said Wenger is arrogant, he replied "All top managers are arrogant", this to me implies he sees Wenger in that category otherwise why mention top managers?

I don't like arrogance, but arrogance from someone failing is even more irritating. Wenger is arrogant, no doubt about it, it's been illustrated in his choice of words, for example when he mentioned the 20,000 substitutions etc etc

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

To be fair i don't think i've seen anything Letters has written which has even implied he is a top manager, he's not

Where i disagree with people on the Wenger out side (not that i am not Wenger out) is something which is irrefutable to me, that regardless of his shortcomings that a new manager would be rubbing their hands in glee at what they had to work with in terms of financial and squad resources. Does the squad require additions?....are there a few players who arguably have been kept at the club too long? yes.....but Wenger when he decides to shove off leaves the club in good health....the problem is waiting for him to go so that a more ambitious and more tactically innovate manager can make the most of the tools he has to work with

On the other hand i don't think people stay away from here because of the adversarial nature of the discourse, if anything i think that's the only thing that keeps people coming here.

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If Wenger had shoved off a few years back then I'm betting most of the fans would have said exactly that, well done Wenger, we remember the good times and you've left things in a decent enough state for the new guy.

However, he hasn't shoved off and he's decided to preside over the period where the purse strings have loosened (allegedly) and we are supposed to be delivering on a huge project designed to secure us at the top of the game. Wenger has done the opposite. He's securing us as a financially powerful also-ran. The very last thing most fans want to see, I suspect. What's it to the fans if we are in a financially stable condition? I, for one, want to see us play decent football (an absolute priority) and at least compete for the major honours as we should be doing at a club of this size and stature. There are no demands to win everything every season, just compete until the finish line. Instead we have a guy who won't do what it takes to compete and has produced a brand of football that induces coma. The question is, how long will this guy stay before handing over to somebody who can advance this club on the pitch and not just at the bank? If the fans don't pipe up it sounds like the board would have him here for as long as they can persuade him to stay. And as Wenger shows no signs at all he's prepared to change, that means we potentially face an open ended period of shit football and zero competition. Surely that can't be allowed to stand? If the manager hasn't the honesty and grace to bow out and the board actually wants him here for ever then who is left to get this club back on a football track? The fans. For better or worse, united or divided, it's just us. Or do we want to see this stubborn old fool persist for years to come?

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Again i don't think that necessarily implies Wenger is a top manager.

It's just that you chide Wenger for being arrogant, when it's a trait of top managers. You think because Wenger isn't a top manager he should be more humble, but that's more about your disdain for the man....how dare he not meet my expectations and not be contrite about it.

Well hypothetically assume we had a better manager in, and despite having won big trophies had a lean spell for a year or so, do you expect him to be apologetic about it?

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Well here's a thing. We SHOULD have a top manager at this club. So what's Wenger doing here, if even his most ardent admirers won't say he's a top manager? He should be gone TODAY if he's not a top manager, shouldn't he? And by manager, just so certain people don't get confused, I mean somebody who also manages the football team.

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Originally Posted by bignev

I think most of us think it's ridiculous. I know I do. We all have our own opinions but I think we all agree on one thing. There need to be changes at Arsenal in the way that we operate off the pitch and the way we perform on it.

In other news apparently we're going back with a bigger bid for Lacazette. I'm not that convinced about him to be honest. Whenever I've seen him he's never really impressed me. However my desperation for us to sign a striker has now reached such a level that I want us to sign him.

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Same here. A month ago there was a mention of Lacazette and I thought, is that the best we can do? I hope not.

Now it's yes please, maybe he'll be good, maybe he'll do better here, maybe he's the new Henry in disguise. Just get him!

It's no way to carry on, is it? Everyone hoping for some last minute something, anything.

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Originally Posted by Özim

I don't like arrogance

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:lol:

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Originally Posted by Letters

:lol:

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Why is that funny, it's generally not seen as a good quality? :unsure: