Wenger Referendum II - And this time it's personal

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Originally Posted by Özim

The bad start was his fault, he didn't dig us out of a hole in reality as he's the one that put us there in the 1st place.

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That's pretty much exactly what I said :lol:

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Originally Posted by Özim

As for the finish to the season, what it kinda proves is that we'll never challenge for big prizes under Wenger.

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You previously said we'd never win a trophy under him again :shrug:

(tbh after the Birmingham debacle, I kinda agreed)

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Originally Posted by Özim

The bad start was his fault, he didn't dig us out of a hole in reality as he's the one that put us there in the 1st place. As for the finish to the season, what it kinda proves is that we'll never challenge for big prizes under Wenger because either we'll start well and fall away or start badly and then come good and then fall away again when the finish line is near. We've seen it enough times now to know that's what's going to happen.

Momentum is a big thing in football and teams that fall away or lack motivation in the final furlongs when there's still things to achieve clearly aren't setup to win things.

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Our slow start to the season is no coincidence. It comes down to bad preparation. It was a World Cup year and besides the usual stalling on transfers, we only played 4 preseason friendlies. 5 if you count the Community Shield. Just compare that to our rivals.

Arsenal – 4 + 1 (Community Shield)
Chelsea – 10
Man Utd - 6
City - 6 + 1 (Community Shield)
Liverpool – 8

It’s bad enough we go into the season looking wafer thin at CB and up front during a World Cup year. There is no way he could have seen from preseason that Chambers or Sanogo were ready for the league. He didn’t get a good look at Coquelin during the preseason and loaned him out instead. It’s bad preparation and I don’t know what we were doing to be so unprepared. We felt it and struggled through the season as expected.

Wenger definitely deserves criticism for the poor start, but he's responsible for all results good and bad so he should also be given some credit for us picking up.
Ultimately a season should be judged as a whole at the end. If the end result is 3rd and the FA Cup then I think that's a pretty good season overall.
Not one I'd be sacking the manager for, personally.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I don't want anything from people :shrug:

This section is Arsenal debate, I'm giving my views. I understand how people were fed up about things early season when we were playing so poorly, I was very firmly in the "Wenger Out" camp then. Since then my views have softened because of the good run which has seen us finish safely in the top 4 and get to the Cup Final. For me, 3rd and an FA Cup is a good season. Not a great season but after so long without a trophy 2 cups in 2 years would be a nice change. We need to be challenging for the title next year, obviously. It's debatable whether Wenger can do that but IMO this is the best squad he's had for a long time so I'm hopeful. We need to be preparing for his departure either way because of his age but he's a safe enough pair of hands and there's no need to rush it.

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You conveniently ignored the rest of my comment, so that line looks completely out of context. Do you think narrowing down an argument to 'wetting yourself' is going to encourage more discussion or the opposite? You can't sit there piously saying everyone else digs only for you to when there is absolutely no need. It's partly why I hardly come on here - probably for may others too - because it's childish. From what I can see you're no different from those you're accusing. Or it's just petulant name calling because others see it completely differently, so you stamp your feet. If someone calls you a cunt then surely that's their opinion and not wumming either. None of this stuff on here means a thing but it's fun to debate football every now and then without well thought out words being trashed as useless. One of your replies to me the other day indicated that this place had died because no-one debated anymore. Well, you're not helping.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Wenger definitely deserves criticism for the poor start, but he's responsible for all results good and bad so he should also be given some credit for us picking up.
Ultimately a season should be judged as a whole at the end. If the end result is 3rd and the FA Cup then I think that's a pretty good season overall.
Not one I'd be sacking the manager for, personally.

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What if we don’t win the FA Cup?

We’ve had this season after season. We’re always falling short because he’s not prepared to do what’s necessary to get us to the top. He doesn’t act like a guy that learns from his mistakes or cares about the criticism. It goes back to what was said in another thread yesterday, I don’t know how his ego can take such a poor record against his rivals and going so long without a trophy. It looks like complacency but that makes no sense unless you’re satisfied and comfortable with your position.

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Originally Posted by Kano

You conveniently ignored the rest of my comment, so that line looks completely out of context. Do you think narrowing down an argument to 'wetting yourself' is going to encourage more discussion or the opposite? You can't sit there piously saying everyone else digs only for you to when there is absolutely no need. It's partly why I hardly come on here - probably for may others too - because it's childish. From what I can see you're no different from those you're accusing. Or it's just petulant name calling because others see it completely differently, so you stamp your feet. If someone calls you a cunt then surely that's their opinion and not wumming either. None of this stuff on here means a thing but it's fun to debate football every now and then without well thought out words being trashed as useless. One of your replies to me the other day indicated that this place had died because no-one debated anymore. Well, you're not helping.

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I haven't personally abused anyone, I've just said what I think. The pants wetting comment was somewhat flippant but hardly abusive.
Other people who disagree with me have personally abused me - your post has quite an aggressive tone. I'm only being called a WUM, it seems, because my view is an unpopular one on here. I'm perfectly entitled to my view.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Of course we should be challenging Chelsea but after 12 games we were 15 points adrift. That is not acceptable, clearly, but Wenger and the players deserve some credit for digging us out of that hole (even though they dug it in the first place)

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This.

A few years back, a poster on GW (cant remember who) posted that many Arsenal fans suffer from the battered wife syndrome, and your statement is a reflection of that perfectly. Someone beats the living daylights out of you and then offers you painkillers to soothe your pain.. rather than be unhappy about getting beat up, you thank this great 'humanitarian' because he gave you painkillers.. unbelievable!

He'll do the same thing again next season.. and the season after.. and we will always have someone ready to give up their first born to defend Wenger!

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Originally Posted by Letters

We won 9 games out of 10. We lost one and everyone's wetting themselves. :shrug:

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Think about what you said in that post. My view, and I'm sure the view of most here is not formulated by what has been done over the past 10 games. It isn't even formed by our performance over the season as a whole.

My view is governed by the recurring pattern that we see year after year. Quite simply, this club has a losers mentality and a culture where it isn't just acceptable to take the foot off the gas whenever an opportunity presents itself, it is actively encouraged.

Come on everyone - lay off poor old Letters. Sometimes, the Utd game being the last example, when I have picked my brains for an hour trying to find any logic to his comments defending his master & then asked him the simple question of whether or not he had actually watched the game, the answer is often "No". Therefore, we shouldn't really read in to his comments to much as he doesn't watch us very often.
He is ofcourse perfectly entitled to put forward his views, in the same way that Sonogo is entitled to shoot at goal - the end result being very similar - laughable.