He could be both, I suppose... :unsure:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Any manager starts by default with some good will but it will evaporate very quickly if results don't pick up.
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He could be both, I suppose... :unsure:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Any manager starts by default with some good will but it will evaporate very quickly if results don't pick up.
He'll have no goodwill, he'll need to pick the correct lineups, the system should become clear very quickly and any changes should be quite evident early on. otherwise, much like Ljungberg things will turn sour very quickly for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
5 million is quite a lot for a guy with no experience, if we have to pay compensation as well it would make you wonder why we couldn't pay up for a proven manager.
Anyway, I don't trust the club at all, they've shown themselves to be very complacent and lacking in knownledge so I'm not holding out too much hope for this guy, at least with a proven manager we'd have something to make us believe he can make things happen, Arteta is basically just a punt based on some complimentary words from some guys he's friendly with, not exactly a ringing endorsement of his ability to do the job.
He has managed before tbf..Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45555227
:rose:
"Assistant coach Mikel Arteta took over duties in the dugout but the former Arsenal midfielder oversaw a disjointed performance which was as flat as the atmosphere inside the ground."Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
i can see now why he's a perfect fit... :lol:
Arteta must be a very very confident man if he believes he can sort out this mess given he has never managed a football club to date. It's a huge job, we as fans expect some kind of instant improvement even if we accept that the squad is short in most areas.
I don't know what to really think anymore, I wasn't massively in favour of Ancellotti despite the fact he was an elite manager in the past, the past being the key word here.
I dunno...I'll get behind Arteta, he comes highly endorsed by a lot of the current elite managers so he must have something about him.
But let's make no mistake, he has a big job on his hands, we are in a real mess right now and have lots of work to do both in terms of improving not only the performances but also the results.
We have a lot of personnel issues too...they need ironing out immediately. Anybody who wants out should be made available IMO, there is not one player in this team / squad who is indispensable IMHO.
Let’s face it, this is probably going to be 90% a youth development role for whoever takes over anyway (at least to start with), so I don’t think we’ve got much to lose by building around an up-and-coming coach like Arteta at this point.
I’m pretty sure one or both of Aubameyang and Lacazette will be leaving within the next couple of windows - regardless of who takes charge, I don’t think either player can can afford to wait around to see how it works out now, and in any case we’ll probably have to sell them anyway to raise funds and slash the wage bill. As for the rest of the “experienced” players, I can’t think of anyone we have over the age of 25 (apart from the keepers) who adds a damn thing to this team, and who I wouldn’t sell in a cold minute, if I could.
If we do get the clear out of the players we want, then we’re going to be left with a very, very young group at the end of it. And if we somehow manage to raise some funds through sales to reinvest then we’re going to see yet more younger players coming in (hopefully ones that are at least already proving it at a senior level, but young nonetheless). Realistically, those conditions are going to limit the type of candidate who is going to be a) interested in, and b) suitable for this gig.
Much as we might want someone to come in to rail and rage at the budget and the guys in charge - to demand a spending spree and instant transformation - that isn’t going to be helpful now. The money is no longer there to solve the problem in that way. We had one shot at the quick fix and spending our way back into the CL spots after Wenger left, and before we’d gone too many seasons without CL income, and we fucked it up by hiring the wrong man. Now we have little choice but to play the long game and restructure. That means we need someone who knows what he’s walking into and is prepared to work with the club, with what we have, while we get our house in order and sort out the mess behind the scenes...
The only issue about the youth development is our youths aren't that good. Losing Aubameyang and/or Lacazette might well be terminal for us, they pretty much score all our goals, without them we'd be in real trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
Right now it's not looking good, we're in a downward spiral and it looks likes the club is choosing to embark on some sort of youth project MKII, the first one was an utter disaster. Anyway I don't trust the club to get anything right, generally they make the wrong choice. Everytime we're at a crossroads there's hope we can change direction and move forward again, but evertime the club disappoints and effectively cements our place as a club who can no longer compete.
Football is full of clubs like us, clubs who were even more successful, AC Milan for example, we're the English version and sadly with the way things are going I'm not sure it can be reversed. We've been complacent for too long, when 4th place is the limit of your ambition eventually clubs catch up and overtake you an that's exactly what's happened.
Yeah, I bet they did! A man who’s training sessions were so relaxed that the Bayern players had to organise their own in secret... our lot would love that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Also a man who has won the CL and league titles, it's only natural top players would prefer a top manager, just like they'd prefer us to sign top players rather than unknowns.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
With Arteta, given our situation the threat of relegation becomes very real, you can't expect someone who's never managed to come in and have an instant impact with no experience, Zidane and Guardiola took charge of Real and Barca but they had managed the B teams in a lower league prior to that and also came into teams with a host of top players who weren't in in trouble in the league.
Nagelsman struggled in his first season a Hoffenheim and was close to relegation, it took him time for him to sharpen his skills.
I'm frankly astonished a club of our stature would take a risk like this, it could end very badly.
Well if it ends badly then we can sack Arteta and bring in Alladyce or Pulis to save us from relegation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Nah, we’ve got some good kids here, mate - they’re just suffering badly from a chronic lack of leadership and any kind of vision to buy into / believe in. They were doing great at the start of the year, playing some great stuff, but the confidence and enthusiasm has drained away from them the longer they’ve spent around Emery and this group of senior players. They’re looking to these guys as mentors, looking for guidance, and all the see is mistakes, apathy and grown men who have given up and are happy to just take a wage and let their careers peter out. It’s got to be soul-destroying for a young player, at the start of an exciting career, and I honestly think they’d be getting on better without any of them right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
You say we’re choosing to go down this route, but I think it’s more a case of having backed ourselves into a corner, with no other route out. The accounts show we’re now making a loss as a club, and that’s only going to compound, year on year now, unless we cut costs and rebuild on a more sustainable footing. We all agree that Özil, Xhaka, Luiz, Sokratis, Kolasinac and Mustafi need to be sold, right, but how much are they likely to bring in to fund replacements? Xhaka might bring in something, but the others will be nominal fees or giveaways to get them off the wage bill. Ceballos also goes back to Madrid at the end of the year, so that’s 7 players we might need to replace with very little money coming into fund it.
That means, if we’re serious about any kind of rebuild, then we’ll have to look at selling guys like Aubameyang and Lacazette (and maybe even Bellerin and Torreira) for as much as possible. But, of course, any of those players who go will also need to be replaced, and that’s on top of the 7 above!
All of which means we’re probably going to have to make a little go a long, long way where recruitment is concerned, and will have the usual choice of promising, yet unproven youth vs journeymen older players (or complete unknowns). Even then I think we’re going to have to fill in some blanks from the academy.
No one’s arguing that it’s not an embarrassing state for a club like ours to find ourselves in, but it is where we find ourselves, and we have to deal with it. Honestly, fuck teams like AC Milan - they haven’t modernised, and are still trying to dine off their name and past success, so they deserve everything that’s happening to them. And, quite frankly, fuck Arsenal too, if we also think we’re too big to just fade away - this absolutely can be reversed, but we need to get with the programme, fast, or we’re going to get left behind by the Leicesters and Leipzigs of this world who are getting it right (on less than we’re working with)...
We won't get relegated. There is enough quality on the pitch to scrape up enough points regardless of the disorganisation, and there are plenty of shitty teams in this league who we can nick points from. It's whether somebody can grab hold of this and make the fundamental changes required to prevent us having to scrap from 40 points next season and the season after. If we don't get things sorted by the end of this season then it's conceivable we'd be in a real relegation fight this time next year. In fact it's more likely that's where we'll be, compared to challenging for the coveted, erotic, blissful Top 4 Trophy that seems the be-all end-all for this deeply ambitious club and half its fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumble
i was being a bit sarcastic - although if we sell laca and auba not totally sure how we would stay up without replacing them. I guess the club are going to go to a youth project with the appointment of arteta and hopefully the match day prices will reflect that. be interesting to see how sponsorship etc will be affected by the lack of a competitive team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
So the solution to a less than competitive team will be a team that can barely survive the EPL. As we saw with Liverpool kids getting tanked by an average Villa team yesterday, kids are rarely up to the task.
What this team needs is a manager with tactical discipline who the players would look up to. If i were Kroenke I would ignore the clearly inept dolts running this club and go for the Atletico Madrid manager. Signs are that Simeone may be ready to move on. He is exactly what this team and club needs. He brings the presence and tactical nous this team needs and will within 6 months sort the wheat from the chaff of our bunch of dilettantes.
God! sometimes I fkn hate this club called Arsenal. Success means nothing to the morons in charge. Change the fkn tape, tear up the script!. Turn a new corner.
the competition in the EPL is only going to get harder from here on. Money is still pouring into the EPL. Poor clubs will soon be billionaire rich and we will be trundling on behind claiming poverty
They’d need to be replaced, pronto, but we’d have to take a note out of Liverpool’s book (i.e. when they sold off Suarez, Sterling and Coutinho, brought in a bunch of less-fashionable replacement forwards for a fraction of the money and put the rest into overhauling the failing areas of their side). We keep casting envious eyes at them and the team they’ve put together, but even now we have some assets here that would allow us to attempt something similar - I just question whether anyone at the club actually has the neck to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumble
Who knows, though? Maybe it won’t be necessary to sell those guys, and the club are sitting on more money than they’re making public? Maybe getting the other big earners off the wage bill will be enough, if we can then pay for new players in instalments? I look at these things in a far more basic way and right now I’m just really struggling to see how we finance the overhaul we desperately need without sacrificing Auba and Laca (and probably a couple of others too).
i think we will need to sell those guys because I don't think Auba is going to want to play a few seasons outside of Europe at his age. Laca is still marketable and if we can sell him to Barca then we can get a lot of money for him. Plus I think there is an issue as its either/or with Auba and Laca on the pitch. We have a few sellable assets Leno who I think has shown himself to be a good keeper, will attract interest. Bellerin possibly although with the injuries I don't think he is back to where he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
Arteta as the new manager is fairly underwhelming and a huge gamble although Wenger has backed him so that's good.
Urgh!. How is that any recommendation.?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumble
Yeah, 'cos anyone would be better than Wenger :whistle:
I think Bumble may have been taking the piss :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Sounds like Arteta could be in charge for the Everton game on Saturday, once compensation is agreed.
Though we’ve apparently pissed off City by not approaching them formally. :lol:
Is that compensation for the fans who have paid through the nose to sit and watch this shit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
How do you approach the gypos formally? Do you park your trailer next to theirs and invite them around for special brew? Fuck them. How many times did they come around nabbing our players? Mind you, considering the shite we sold them, I suppose we should thank them too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
We haven't made any contact with Citeh. :lol:
Improving relations again.
Wonder if we're getting cold feet. :ninja:
Emery to be announced.Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
there's no doubt we must have messed up on Ancellotti - even though we're struggling we are (for the time being) a bigger club than Neverton and he'd surely have come here if we'd gone to him straight and said 'we'd liike to offer you the job'.
instead we're fuhking around and will probably end up with Eddie Howe (if we're lucky)
Good ebening!Quote:
Originally Posted by GP
I'm still not convinced Ancellotti would have been right for us - he feels more like the type of coach you'd want in charge of a 'Galactico' squad, where the players already know their business to a high professional standard, and just need someone to stroke some egos, keep them focussed and apply the tactical finishing touches to turn them into winners. He'd have been a fine choice for a bunch of pros like the Invincibles, but with this current lot? I don't know. I think we need far, far more work than just a good coach who can pick the right team and make the right tactical calls on match days. The culture at this club is rotten and our approach to pretty much everything needs a major shake up. This is not going to be a quick fix.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Whatever concerns you have about Arteta and his lack of experience in the dugout (all valid), I'll say this for him - I think he's probably the only candidate we're looking who truly understands the size of the job at hand, and just how bad things are right now. He was there at the tail end of Wenger's reign, when standards had dropped off a cliff, and he went straight from that to City with their elite set-up and their ambitions to conquer the world - he will be painfully aware of how stark the difference is between us and genuine contenders, and he should have a plan for it. With all the other candidates, I genuinely don't think any of them fully understand what they'd be walking into...
FYP.Quote:
Originally Posted by GP
City are asking for £2m to release Arteta from his contract suppose it would help them with FFP as there is only so much FIFA/UEFA can do.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
I too do not think Ancelotti would have done well at the club. He has recently been shite wherever he has gone and his stock is on the decline.. I did not see him making drastic changes this squad needs to become competitive. We need to teach our group of players basic tactics- off the ball positioning, first touch, passing etc before we can even dream of becoming top 4 again.
We were a couple of points off top 4 last year. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
We should have finished top 4, but for a Wengeresque collapse we would have.
This squad aren't as bad as some people are making out although agree about the coaching.
Individually and on paper, I think our squad is easily a top 4 team, however what has happened over the last 9-10 months if that the team has lost an identity, game plan and basic football skills. I think we need someone to bring all of that back, and I believe that can happen once we go back to basics and start from the ground up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We need to never, ever talk about top 4 again. As we have seen, top 4 is meaningless to anyone bar the money men. What difference does it make to the fans is we qualify for the CL? Just means they waste more of their money. We aren't going to win it, or even properly compete in it. It's Wenger's biggest con. His eternal excuse for not being able to seriously challenge and his get out of jail (with a pay rise) card to play with the board every year. Top 4, top 4, top 4, top 4... Bullshit!Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
I want to see a team that can play decent football. That'll do for now. The eradication of the tippy tappy, sideways, backwards dross once and for ever.
:good:Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
You can see how off the pace we were with the basics with things like trying to play out from the back - City can do it because they probably spend untold hours drilling their defenders to receive a pass under pressure like a peak-Barca midfield, whereas Emery looks like he thought he could just tell Sokratis to stand at the side of the area and go from there.
This is why Ozil, despite his ridiculous pay packet, remains crucial to this team. He's about the only one who doesn't shit down his legs when he gets the ball. And he knows how to use it, instead of passing it back and then authoritatively gesturing to the poor sod you just passed into trouble to get it up the field. Have you seen how often they do that? Bottle the pass and then issue instructions the second they've got rid of the ball? Embarrassing stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
I dont want top 4 if it didnt mean us getting a massive injection of funds to use for transfer. Our model under Kroenke will not allow us to spend huge amounts of money to build up the squad to become competitive at the top. We have to take baby steps here and get back to the lucrative top 4 places. Then we can take the next leap to challenging Chelsea, Shitty and Liverpool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Most accurate description of Emery-ball :haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
totally agree re Ozil, you could see it when he came off against Citeh - we may not have been great beforehand but we completely lost any structure after he'd goneQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
there's a lot of sense there but my fear is of how much further we might slide if it proves that Arteta needs a few months to get the hang of things, whereas Ancellotti would i hoped have been able to get them into some kind of purposeful mentality and shape quickly - i totally get it would be a short-term approach adnd a longer-term one would be preferable in a lot of ways, but i'm just worried that we really are still not far away from the bottom three...Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
Basically agree but I don't think that has to happen by clearing out a load of players and starting again. Some need to go, but what we need is a manager who can inspire them and make them a team again. And a decent captain would help. That's all Spurs have done, Poch is a good manager but the players weren't playing for him, they got someone in who can get them going again and the results have immediately improved. :sick:Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
Meanwhile, we're scrabbling around trying to recruit someone who never managed a game in his life. You couldn't make it up!