When will Arteta be sacked by

The overall squad is not one I have issues with, although I think its bottom heavy with too many defensive minded players and not enough attack minded ones

I still think we miss that Vieira like player who can link defence and attack but I think that player doesn’t really exist anymore, I think again it’s more the way we set up…the inverted full back system to strangle the life out of games is for me unnecessary.

What we need is additions up front to make us more efficient. The main problem especially at home is having to over commit and getting caught on the break (50% of the goals we’ve conceded at home in the league this season have come that way)

This is for me partly because we haven’t got a player who is good enough to put away chances, and we aren’t playing in a way that stretches the defence of the opposition. I think the players we have available are good enough to do the latter if we employ them that way, whilst I did not think signing a left back a priority I think Calafiori is a good player, he is good at interceptions and he’s got decent pace to bomb down the left and dovetail with Martinelli. Whilst not as quick, White has a good understanding with Saka and is a good crosser of the ball.


If we play Partey in a more advanced position rather than Rice we create space through the middle as well. Yes like any team we suffer when our best players are injured, but we need Captain Black to stop putting square pegs in round holes


I think overall the squad we have today is far far better than the one Arteta inherited, but it bloody well should be with the money we’ve spent. What we need now is a clinical finisher and I think this team would be able to both defend a lead and play in a way that we could tear a team to shreds on the counter, if Arteta actually set us up that way

I've been so up and down on where we are at present. Part of the problem is that to compete with Citeh we have to be almost perfect - and we have not been.

Also, after an outstanding second half of last season, we have (I think) fallen short of our points total at this stage last time round (can't be bothered to look, but by 2/3 points?).

But Bournemouth and possibly Brighton aside I am not sure that we have massively underperformed. The problem is that we are viewing our team's performances via the prism of no room for error.

I think that we have to see Sunday as a decent enough result. We can say all we like that Liverpool weren't that great. But to get a draw after ending up with a back four of Partey; White, Kiwor and MLS against the form team in the league - carrying huge momentum into this game - is not a bad result. This was a must not lose and we did not lose.

I have been critical of our threat going forwards, but the first half against Liverpool was very good in this regard. I am frustrated by Arteta's defensive mindset, but can't really criticise him for this when faced with what happened during the game. I think the manager should be judged when his key players are back, and the system can therefore mature...the problem is that it might be too late for the league by then!

Looking back on the season so far, I think I am more frustrated with our self inflicted wounds (red cards) than the manager's tactics.

Hmmm I disagree about a couple of things

Sunday…Liverpool were bang average, the players missing in defence was not the reason we only got a draw it was the negative mindset. We should have put them to the sword

As for the to beat City you have to be perfect mantra, not buying that either. The difference in City between having Rodri fit and not being fit was so clear to see in our game against them. When Rodri went off injured, it wasn’t just scoring two goals we controlled the game. Before that we could barely get a look in.

He literally makes that much difference to City, since they played us…they drew with Newcastle and have scraped wins against sides that they should be beating easily. I think the advantage they have over us is virtually wiped out with him out for the season

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Originally Posted by IBK

I've been so up and down on where we are at present. Part of the problem is that to compete with Citeh we have to be almost perfect - and we have not been.

Also, after an outstanding second half of last season, we have (I think) fallen short of our points total at this stage last time round (can't be bothered to look, but by 2/3 points?).

But Bournemouth and possibly Brighton aside I am not sure that we have massively underperformed. The problem is that we are viewing our team's performances via the prism of no room for error.

I think that we have to see Sunday as a decent enough result. We can say all we like that Liverpool weren't that great. But to get a draw after ending up with a back four of Partey; White, Kiwor and MLS against the form team in the league - carrying huge momentum into this game - is not a bad result. This was a must not lose and we did not lose.

I have been critical of our threat going forwards, but the first half against Liverpool was very good in this regard. I am frustrated by Arteta's defensive mindset, but can't really criticise him for this when faced with what happened during the game. I think the manager should be judged when his key players are back, and the system can therefore mature...the problem is that it might be too late for the league by then!

Looking back on the season so far, I think I am more frustrated with our self inflicted wounds (red cards) than the manager's tactics.

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I'm generally thinking similarly, although I don't know how you can say our reds are self-inflicted when no other team's players are being booked for kicking the ball away - also with the Saliba one players have just been given yellows in similar incidents in just the last two weeks, plus when you look at the rule the original yellow-card decision by the ref could have been allowed to stand legitimately

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Hmmm I disagree about a couple of things

Sunday…Liverpool were bang average, the players missing in defence was not the reason we only got a draw it was the negative mindset. We should have put them to the sword

As for the to beat City you have to be perfect mantra, not buying that either. The difference in City between having Rodri fit and not being fit was so clear to see in our game against them. When Rodri went off injured, it wasn’t just scoring two goals we controlled the game. Before that we could barely get a look in.

He literally makes that much difference to City, since they played us…they drew with Newcastle and have scraped wins against sides that they should be beating easily. I think the advantage they have over us is virtually wiped out with him out for the season

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Don't get me wrong - I am not necessarily criticising our performances in these games (Bournemouth aside) - but the table doesn't lie, and while Rhodri is a big loss for Citeh we have failed to take advantage of this so far. You say that we don't have to be near perfect to beat Citeh to the title - yet we would have needed to be pretty much perfect so far this season to be sitting above them.

Whether our competitors are 'average' or 'scaping wins' is irrelevant unless we are benefitting from this.

To respond to Mac - I am as frustrated by the refereeing decisions that have gone against us as anyone, but there is nothing to be gained from howling at injustice. The simple fact is that with all of our reds we gave the officials an opportunity to punish us...and in each case this could have easily been avoided. So we circle back round to the first issue - the need to be near perfect. And this includes not giving PGMOL the opportunity to f*ck us.

Like I said, I do think we will be a force to be reckoned with when we get our key players back and this system clicks. Whether Liverpool have what it takes or Citeh stumble going forwards, we have left ourselves with very little margin of error already.

The main reason for the points gap is that we’ve played far harder games by the next international break our first six away games will have been Villa, Spurs, City, Bournemouth, Newcastle and Chelsea.

The irony is it’s entirely possible we go unbeaten against Newcastle and Chelsea and that on paper our easiest game is the one we lost.


Liverpool and City’s toughest game has been against us…both were lucky to avoid defeat. At this point the gap is less meaningful because they both have to play far tougher games and I’m far from convinced either of them are going to get through them unscathed

In terms of results, Bournemouth and Liverpool were disappointing…but the first game was marred by having to play most of the game with ten men and it’s just inevitable that this will result in defeat at some point. The only game where I’m really disappointed with both the result and the performance was Liverpool on Sunday. I think by far that’s been the most disheartening result of the season, we had a chance to lay a marker down and send them back to Anfield with a bloody nose and we played it safe

Any updates on this? :whistle:

I think the only way he gets sacked is if we tumble out of the top four unfortunately

I think what is frustrating about him is that we know we are capable of excellent results under him (though have to say he’s never been that impressive coaching us in Europe). But we are a victim of his stubbornness, today was so predictable. The rule of thumb is if we go ahead unless there’s something badly wrong we keep the lead, and if we go behind away from home especially it’s good night Vienna because we don’t either have the personnel or play in the way to break down a side that’s determined to hold onto what they have.

Yeah he’s not going anywhere unless there’s a United style downturn. The hierarchy have bet the house on him and I doubt they will rip it all up considering how long it took to build.

We’re undoubtedly in a bit of a mess though and a long way off the standards we’ve set over the past 2 years. First real test now for Arteta in a long time in dealing with adversity.

There have been moments when Arteta has delivered everything the fans have been asking for. A bigger, more aggressive squad. More direct play. An actual defence. Attention to the details like set pieces and throw-ins. Square pegs in square holes. And it has been fun to watch. But it's intermittent at best. He's too conservative and he needs to loosen up and let the team breathe a bit. He's too afraid to lose and not hungry enough to win. That needs to flip. I don't care if we lose (as in, sack the manager), I only care of we lose because we didn't turn up.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Yeah he’s not going anywhere unless there’s a United style downturn. The hierarchy have bet the house on him and I doubt they will rip it all up considering how long it took to build.

We’re undoubtedly in a bit of a mess though and a long way off the standards we’ve set over the past 2 years. First real test now for Arteta in a long time in dealing with adversity.

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It's not just the last few games. Even when we win the performance has been a bit shit. Rookie out!

I keep saying they should have had an older figure at his shoulder just to steer him in the right direction and be old and experienced enough to be fearless about it - he's got no-one there to challenge him from a knowledgeable and experienced perspective.

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Originally Posted by Chippy

Any updates on this? :whistle:

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:lol:

I am famously patient with managers but he’s spent a lot of money and that did make us genuine contenders last season. Were we not up against the juggernaut - and, let’s face it, the cheats - of City we’d have walked the title. We were only one point down on The Invincibles, we were standing up in the big games and winning the pressure games. Most importantly, Arteta restored the fractured relationship between the club and the fans.

But we’ve regressed since last season. The obvious area we needed to improve was the attack and we didn’t. The defence which saw us through a lot of games last season is now looking shaky. I don’t think Arteta is going to take us any further. I have no beef with the guy, he’s done a lot of good work, but if we are ever going to take that final step and win the league then it won’t be with him.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

There have been moments when Arteta has delivered everything the fans have been asking for. A bigger, more aggressive squad. More direct play. An actual defence. Attention to the details like set pieces and throw-ins. Square pegs in square holes. And it has been fun to watch. But it's intermittent at best. He's too conservative and he needs to loosen up and let the team breathe a bit. He's too afraid to lose and not hungry enough to win. That needs to flip. I don't care if we lose (as in, sack the manager), I only care of we lose because we didn't turn up.

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:gp:

This (the whole post) is just perfect. I couldn't have said it any better.

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Originally Posted by Letters

:lol:

I am famously patient with managers but he’s spent a lot of money and that did make us genuine contenders last season. Were we not up against the juggernaut - and, let’s face it, the cheats - of City we’d have walked the title. We were only one point down on The Invincibles, we were standing up in the big games and winning the pressure games. Most importantly, Arteta restored the fractured relationship between the club and the fans.

But we’ve regressed since last season. The obvious area we needed to improve was the attack and we didn’t. The defence which saw us through a lot of games last season is now looking shaky. I don’t think Arteta is going to take us any further. I have no beef with the guy, he’s done a lot of good work, but if we are ever going to take that final step and win the league then it won’t be with him.

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Sadly, you are correct, we will never win the league with Arteta at the helm.

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Originally Posted by Mac76

I keep saying they should have had an older figure at his shoulder just to steer him in the right direction and be old and experienced enough to be fearless about it - he's got no-one there to challenge him from a knowledgeable and experienced perspective.

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This will be Ancelotti's final season in Madrid....he's always wanted this job and famously waited after he was sacked at Chelsea to see if he would get it.

He's the last of the old dons....and he does happen to know how to get the best from younger players.

We really need to consider if its worth sticking with this kind machine-like football, where every cog needs to be perfect.

We use to lose and it would be fun to watch (at least for a neutral), hell now even watching us grind out our usual 1-0 wins isn't fun, its all just soul sapping.

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Originally Posted by IBK

To respond to Mac - I am as frustrated by the refereeing decisions that have gone against us as anyone, but there is nothing to be gained from howling at injustice. The simple fact is that with all of our reds we gave the officials an opportunity to punish us...and in each case this could have easily been avoided. So we circle back round to the first issue - the need to be near perfect. And this includes not giving PGMOL the opportunity to f*ck us.

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I wasn't howling at anything, just correcting your statement that the reds were our fault - when our players are sent off for things thst no others are sent off for, that's outside our control and has little or nothing to do with our own team discipline

A rowing crew I was following this week in a collegiate regatta progressed through the round to the semis against opposition that were a good 10s faster over 2K. The former had been improving each round, starting with a 7:38 and whittling it down to 7:20 by semi-final day. But the captain got the date wrong and they paddled up and empty river, the actual race was the Friday and there they were on the Thursday, having psyched up for their toughest race of the season. So they put in some splits anyway, just because they were there, and ended up on 7:10 pace which would have seen them at least give a good run against the favourites. Come the Friday, they posted their worst time of the regatta. They already peaked by the time they hit the water. It's a sport of very fine margins where timing, in every sense, is crucial.

Don't underestimate the disruption caused by the blatant cheating during a key period when we could have pushed on but instead found ourselves falling behind. The team should be big enough to put that behind them and go again and build the momentum again, but that's not how it always works out when fine margins are in play. It's not an excuse, there are plenty of other things that have contributed to the poor results, but don't discount the blatant cheating of the match officials and the resulting bullshit pushed out by the talking heads to cover for the blatant cheating.

I saw somebody on here say we can't get hung up on such things. True, we can't let it get the better of us. But neither should we ignore it. It should continue to be called out for the disruption it is, just as any injury is a disruption. People say, poor gypo, no Rodri. What's the difference between that handicap and the points that were stolen from us by corrupt officials?

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Originally Posted by Mac76

I wasn't howling at anything, just correcting your statement that the reds were our fault - when our players are sent off for things thst no others are sent off for, that's outside our control and has little or nothing to do with our own team discipline

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Should have made ir clear mate that that comment wasn't directed at you - more generically that while many of us feel aggrieved at our treatment from the match officials ultimately it won't make any difference...

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

There have been moments when Arteta has delivered everything the fans have been asking for. A bigger, more aggressive squad. More direct play. An actual defence. Attention to the details like set pieces and throw-ins. Square pegs in square holes. And it has been fun to watch. But it's intermittent at best. He's too conservative and he needs to loosen up and let the team breathe a bit. He's too afraid to lose and not hungry enough to win. That needs to flip. I don't care if we lose (as in, sack the manager), I only care of we lose because we didn't turn up.

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:gp: consise summary of where we are

The annoying thing is that the Spuds are now only a couple of points behind us and looked bloody good against Villa today. It's all going tits up at the moment.

Thinking about our last few games - and some of our other disappointing results this season, I'm starting to think that an issue is a lack of self-belief. We have seen the manager and his team retreat into their shells when it really counts. We have seen uncharateristic errors at the back, and a lack of composure in front of goal. And we have seen an element of panic when key players go missing...the performance after Big Gabi went off against Liverpool is a good example of this. So is the general reluctance to pass to Nwaneri on Saturday, and our MF in particular not being able to keep the ball/advance properly when chasing a goal.

I am wondering whether our failure to get across the line for the league last season has affected the team's confidence and automatisms? We have debated the fact that Odegard's absense has made us into a 'defend first' outfit that relies on fine margins to prevail when needed. But while any team would miss a key player, wannabe league champions should, and need to find other ways to impose themselves on games. We have done so in fits and starts this season, but I am seeing a team that does not really believe that they can do it, and a manager who is suddenly looking bereft of a real plan. It's fine to look at circumstances and decisions that have gone against us, but Arsenal to me look like a team that is wilting rather than trying to take the game to the opposition, and both Bournemouth and Newcastle played like teams who felt they had little to fear as long as they executed their own game plan.

Arsenal have at times looked brittle throughout Arteta's tenure - and it looks ATM like our players lack the confidence needed to do what is needed.

I think you are on to something.

It clearly does seem like the players are all playing with more caution than they did last season especially when they get to the final third. I also think maybe our early success with set pieces and the typical Arteta goals have them thinking that's the only way they can score, especially when they are in an adverse situation.

In the Newcastle game, it was annoying seeing them repeatedly go for crosses when it was clear Pope and their defence had sussed us out.

Yeah, you might say the best chance to equalise came from a cross, but that's the 100th time we had tried. BTW, I think the best chance to equalise was when Saka was finally free thanks to a rare Newcastle lapse, and Trossard missed the most basic of passes.

Whatever it is our players need 5o stop playing with chains on and being robotic.

Saka doesn't have this problem as he's rightly self-confident and he can be the difference. Trossard for some reason has started second guessing himself. Jesus never plays with chains, and it could be argued he has way too much faith in his ability with the kind of subpar end product he delivers.

The only other person who seems not to be affected by this malaise is Nwaneri...and that's because he's fresh, young and has so much to look ahead to. And this is my main gripe with Arteta for the last month. With Odegaard's unforeseen absence, he had the best excuse in the world to properly blood the youngster, and if it did not work out, the poor boy wouldn't have felt bad as he would have known he was only playing because Odegaard was absent. This is something AW would have never missed a chance to do.

This is one of the reasons we must insist that our next coach has bags of experience to fall back on.

@IBK I think that the reasons you give, along with the refs being so against us, has knocked the wind out of the teams' sails a bit

This is where Arteta's relentless caution and stubbornness can be a hindrance not a help - I think if Nwaneri had been given more chances generally and been started against Newcastle it might have been different - by the time he came on the pattern was set - I think he wasn't quite in phase with everyone which is why he didn't receive the ball more often

I'm worried that Edu going will only make things worse in terms of giving Arteta too much power at the club - we will be in a Wenger situation again if we're not too careful

As fans we need to know there's enough objectivity and experience in other positions at the club to be able to know when Arteta needs to be asked to go or at very least heavily questioned and told to seek advice

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

I think you are on to something.

It clearly does seem like the players are all playing with more caution than they did last season especially when they get to the final third. I also think maybe our early success with set pieces and the typical Arteta goals have them thinking that's the only way they can score, especially when they are in an adverse situation.

In the Newcastle game, it was annoying seeing them repeatedly go for crosses when it was clear Pope and their defence had sussed us out.

Yeah, you might say the best chance to equalise came from a cross, but that's the 100th time we had tried. BTW, I think the best chance to equalise was when Saka was finally free thanks to a rare Newcastle lapse, and Trossard missed the most basic of passes.

Whatever it is our players need 5o stop playing with chains on and being robotic.

Saka doesn't have this problem as he's rightly self-confident and he can be the difference. Trossard for some reason has started second guessing himself. Jesus never plays with chains, and it could be argued he has way too much faith in his ability with the kind of subpar end product he delivers.

The only other person who seems not to be affected by this malaise is Nwaneri...and that's because he's fresh, young and has so much to look ahead to. And this is my main gripe with Arteta for the last month. With Odegaard's unforeseen absence, he had the best excuse in the world to properly blood the youngster, and if it did not work out, the poor boy wouldn't have felt bad as he would have known he was only playing because Odegaard was absent. This is something AW would have never missed a chance to do.

This is one of the reasons we must insist that our next coach has bags of experience to fall back on.

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A good point regarding the robotic nature of our play. Its OK when a very structured method of approaching games yields results. However when it doesn't it becomes very easy to doubt what you are doing. This lack of conviction and enterprise is quite apparent in this current Arsenal team - which is why we pin our hopes on a 17 year old who seems to break the mould, and may explain why the other players seemed to be on a different wavelength. We do seem to be wound too tight ATM.

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Originally Posted by Mac76

@IBK I think that the reasons you give, along with the refs being so against us, has knocked the wind out of the teams' sails a bit

This is where Arteta's relentless caution and stubbornness can be a hindrance not a help - I think if Nwaneri had been given more chances generally and been started against Newcastle it might have been different - by the time he came on the pattern was set - I think he wasn't quite in phase with everyone which is why he didn't receive the ball more often

I'm worried that Edu going will only make things worse in terms of giving Arteta too much power at the club - we will be in a Wenger situation again if we're not too careful

As fans we need to know there's enough objectivity and experience in other positions at the club to be able to know when Arteta needs to be asked to go or at very least heavily questioned and told to seek advice

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Yes - this is one of my concerns - that it ends up placing too much power/responsibility in Arteta's hands, and removes from the structure someone who can question the manager's decisions.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I saw somebody on here say we can't get hung up on such things. True, we can't let it get the better of us. But neither should we ignore it. It should continue to be called out for the disruption it is, just as any injury is a disruption. People say, poor gypo, no Rodri. What's the difference between that handicap and the points that were stolen from us by corrupt officials?

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I agree with a lot of your post and I definitely feel we've been robbed in a couple of games this season.
But not Bournemouth - I think that was a fair enough sending off, I think we'd have been screaming for a red had that foul happened against us.
Not Liverpool - I didn't particularly think it was a foul for that late chance, but we had enough dominance to kill off that game, and we didn't. That's on us.
Not Newcastle, that one was all us.

Refs have cost us points this season, but we've done it to ourselves too. And the reason for that is we didn't address the clear areas of weakness in the summer. We all knew what we needed to do and we didn't do it. It's the 3rd season in a row we haven't had a striker worthy of the name. We mostly got away with it last year, we're not this season so far.

I heard an excellent comment on a podcast recently. This was that where we might see a lack of intensity in the press, the real explanation might be that where teams set up in a low block and invite us to come onto them there is simply no space for players to generate forward momentum, and of course little space for supporting players to exploit. The converse is true for the defending team. It is relatively easy for them to intercept passing in such a congested space. What we are seeing with many teams we face is that they are not just defending, they are looking to launch counter attacks and have the quick players to do so. We end up so high up the pitch that the opposition often has a lot of open space behind us to exploit, and our defenders are left running back towards their own goal and out of shape, with no MF to cover them.

This is less of a problem for us when Odegard plays, because he is able to operate in absurdly small pockets of space, and can deal with 2 or 3 players being drawn to him. However, Havertz even when dropping deep is not that kind of player, and certainly Rice in an advanced role cannot do so. Our response has been to play everything down the wings, but Saka usually has 2 or 3 players on him; Martinelli has noone inside him to interchange with (we haven't solved the problems on our LHS generally), and there is no movement through the middle because our MF is playing in fear of a turnover. Hence the U-shaped passing of doom.

Arteta's lack of focus on playmakers has left us stodgy and predictable - particularly when we go a goal down and the other side can then sit in - like Newcastle did.

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Originally Posted by IBK

I heard an excellent comment on a podcast recently. This was that where we might see a lack of intensity in the press, the real explanation might be that where teams set up in a low block and invite us to come onto them there is simply no space for players to generate forward momentum, and of course little space for supporting players to exploit. The converse is true for the defending team. It is relatively easy for them to intercept passing in such a congested space. What we are seeing with many teams we face is that they are not just defending, they are looking to launch counter attacks and have the quick players to do so. We end up so high up the pitch that the opposition often has a lot of open space behind us to exploit, and our defenders are left running back towards their own goal and out of shape, with no MF to cover them.

This is less of a problem for us when Odegard plays, because he is able to operate in absurdly small pockets of space, and can deal with 2 or 3 players being drawn to him. However, Havertz even when dropping deep is not that kind of player, and certainly Rice in an advanced role cannot do so. Our response has been to play everything down the wings, but Saka usually has 2 or 3 players on him; Martinelli has noone inside him to interchange with (we haven't solved the problems on our LHS generally), and there is no movement through the middle because our MF is playing in fear of a turnover. Hence the U-shaped passing of doom.

Arteta's lack of focus on playmakers has left us stodgy and predictable - particularly when we go a goal down and the other side can then sit in - like Newcastle did.

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This is virtually a truism. It’s pretty much objective fact that’s what’s been happening especially at home.

It’s why we keep far fewer clean sheets at home than we do away from home.

I don’t think it’s just a lack of playmakers either, even when we have Odegaard we often need to get him to drop deep to receive the ball. The main problem for me is this ridiculous inverted full back system. We rarely see any overlap on the left hand side and that’s why we have the focal point for our attacks all on the right and defenders double or treble up on Saka.


NQ said it the other day that Arteta is more worried about losing than winning, although ironically our defeats under him are greatly in excess of the games we’ve drawn.


I’m all for having this mean machine defence that can’t be beaten, but ultimately even the best defenders in the world are going to be stretched if you give the opposition space to break in midfield (we aren’t good at dealing with transition play)

Maybe Arteta has this long term plan to shape the attack next, but it’s certainly been a second or third order consideration for him until now

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

This is virtually a truism. It’s pretty much objective fact that’s what’s been happening especially at home.

It’s why we keep far fewer clean sheets at home than we do away from home.

I don’t think it’s just a lack of playmakers either, even when we have Odegaard we often need to get him to drop deep to receive the ball. The main problem for me is this ridiculous inverted full back system. We rarely see any overlap on the left hand side and that’s why we have the focal point for our attacks all on the right and defenders double or treble up on Saka.


NQ said it the other day that Arteta is more worried about losing than winning, although ironically our defeats under him are greatly in excess of the games we’ve drawn.


I’m all for having this mean machine defence that can’t be beaten, but ultimately even the best defenders in the world are going to be stretched if you give the opposition space to break in midfield (we aren’t good at dealing with transition play)

Maybe Arteta has this long term plan to shape the attack next, but it’s certainly been a second or third order consideration for him until now

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The other irony was that we signed Raya in large part for his distribution. I cannot help but feel that this was to give us another option by going long so as to stretch play going forwards. But we don't even seem to be able to spring properly when the other side is on us...

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Originally Posted by IBK

The other irony was that we signed Raya in large part for his distribution. I cannot help but feel that this was to give us another option by going long so as to stretch play going forwards. But we don't even seem to be able to spring properly when the other side is on us...

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This was evident against Aston Villa, you had Rogers and Watkins pressing us high which meant that neither Rice or Partey felt comfortable enough on the ball to bring it forward. Of course it didn’t help that Timber was playing left full back and because of the inverted silly nonsense was also playing partly in midfield. What I will say is that I think from what I saw against Southampton in the second half, is that one player who is good at springing an attack is Ricardo Calafiori, he’s far more comfortable on the ball than anyone else we play at left back, I think he does gel well with Martinelli as well.
What’s got to stop happening is the failed experiment of Rice at 8, it’s so silly…Rice is brilliant at six he can read danger like Peter Parker and he’s excellent at putting out fires…why are we trying to get him to be something he isn’t.

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Originally Posted by Letters

It's the 3rd season in a row we haven't had a striker worthy of the name. We mostly got away with it last year, we're not this season so far.

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I actually think Havertz is 90% that guy but he's being played in the Odegaard slot atm and it's masively reduced our effectiveness - there was a really good example of Saka putting a in a good cross v Newcastle and no-one there, not even Trossard, as both he and Havertz are playing hybrid forward/midfielder roles

eitherh way Havertz on his own isn't enough and we should have recuited more in that area.

I want to give Sterling time but he's just a squad player and not the answer to the bigger questions

Overall everything people say here about our approach being too defensive is right - it's at least four things:

- putting Havertz in midfield instead of keeping him at 9...
- ... which is because he won't start Nwaneri in the PL despite him looking like he can handle it
- being too defensive when with 10 men - I believe we could have beaten Brighton and/or got a point against Bournemouth with a more positive approach - it's what Pep would have done
- spending too much time on recruiting for the defensive positions and not enough up top - we should have paid whatever it took to get Seskop IMO

And my fear is that if they give Arteta even more control with Edu's departure it will only get worse

Oh and PLEASE can someone change the thread title to 'By when will Arteta be sacked?' :)

Arsenal have gone down another Wenger endless promise Rabbit hole. He will spend a decade here at least before we realise there is no "there, there".

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Oh and PLEASE can someone change the thread title to 'By when will Arteta be sacked?' :)

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https://youtu.be/Q4XCZfkGF8k?si=wXIiisMKF5HwhKby

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

Arsenal have gone down another Wenger endless promise Rabbit hole. He will spend a decade here at least before we realise there is no "there, there".

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That's my concern too, we could be in for some very painful years in which one by one we lose some fantastic once-in-a-lifetime players and it all turns to shite

Edu's departure is the canary in the coalmine

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Originally Posted by Mac76

That's my concern too, we could be in for some very painful years in which one by one we lose some fantastic once-in-a-lifetime players and it all turns to shite

Edu's departure is the canary in the coalmine

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That's my concern too. It is maybe understandable that having fought so hard and for so long for the league, finished second 2 seasons in a row and not having had the reinforcements it needs over last Summer, our team is looking flat this season.

But there is something not quite right about us this season so far. Whether or not Edu's shock departure reflects this we don't know, but it seems a strange decision to leave before the plan we were all told is in place reaches fruition.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mac76

That's my concern too, we could be in for some very painful years in which one by one we lose some fantastic once-in-a-lifetime players and it all turns to shite

Edu's departure is the canary in the coalmine

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Not sure, not saying you’re wrong but also far from convinced you’re right

KSE was quite ruthless when it came to getting rid of Emery and Arteta has not got the goodwill stored that Wenger had with the three titles and countless seasons in the champions league

There are definite causes for concern. But still wouldn’t be quick to go into panic mode.

What I’m guessing happened with Edu is that he was headhunted by Evangelos Marinakis, he was interested in the offer but was above board and went to Arsenal to see if they would offer him the amount that might keep him from taking the offer, they didn’t and so he took the job. The media love to make a mountain out of a molehill, but I’ve seen no indication thus far that it was an acrimonious split, but who knows maybe in the next few weeks we will discover that it was all raised voices, fingers pointed etc

But too soon to say

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Originally Posted by IBK

That's my concern too. It is maybe understandable that having fought so hard and for so long for the league, finished second 2 seasons in a row and not having had the reinforcements it needs over last Summer, our team is looking flat this season.

But there is something not quite right about us this season so far. Whether or not Edu's shock departure reflects this we don't know, but it seems a strange decision to leave before the plan we were all told is in place reaches fruition.

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Do you not think that a lot of this trust the process stuff is largely PR to keep the fans onside. Purely speculative on my part but you can see in my reply to Mac, what I think went down. Now if I’m right (and by no means am I even suggesting I am, I’m merely spitballing) but if I’m right it would suggest that maybe the club felt that Edu wasn’t someone who they felt needed to be kept on at all cost.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Not sure, not saying you’re wrong but also far from convinced you’re right

KSE was quite ruthless when it came to getting rid of Emery and Arteta has not got the goodwill stored that Wenger had with the three titles and countless seasons in the champions league

There are definite causes for concern. But still wouldn’t be quick to go into panic mode.

What I’m guessing happened with Edu is that he was headhunted by Evangelos Marinakis, he was interested in the offer but was above board and went to Arsenal to see if they would offer him the amount that might keep him from taking the offer, they didn’t and so he took the job. The media love to make a mountain out of a molehill, but I’ve seen no indication thus far that it was an acrimonious split, but who knows maybe in the next few weeks we will discover that it was all raised voices, fingers pointed etc

But too soon to say

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You saw this i posted the other day right?

https://www.teamtalk.com/arsenal/tru...-are-clarified

"We have been informed that the reason for his departure is due to ‘internal disagreements over the line to follow for the future of Arsenal, which arose amid a long-term strategic review of the club.’

Sources say that Edu holds ‘opposing positions to other leading figures at Arsenal about the next steps for the development of Arsenal’ and in order not to ruin his ‘fantastic’ relationship with the club, decided to leave."

OK so we don't know how much Arteta was personally responsible for the differences of opinion but it certainly wouldn't be a surprise