Is Wenger stale or is it us?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Lahey

^^ yes this is very true. whoever signed these players to those ridiculous contracts should be fired on the spot. millions of pounds have been wasted on garbage over the years and we arent talking about 1 or 2 contracts we can come up with a laundry list of shite that the club has spent soo much money on. there is only one man who choses to sign these players and he needs to be held accountable for this.

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Thought you'd be at BMO Field right now.

edit: Mind you, that would be pointless seeing as it is at the Rogers Center.

the arsenal fan in me does not allow me to go see liverpool even though we dont get too many high profile teams over here buddy. besides 11$ for a pint is criminal. my 3$ beer from my couch tastes so much better. i figured since Kronke came aboard we would see Arsenal around these parts. hopefully after we raid the far east of all the $$$ they can come here to rinse and repeat.

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Originally Posted by GB.

I disagree with the statement that we can't compete with those wages. We fricken well can. We could have a spine of 3-4 superstars on pretty monstrous wages if we weren't paying ridiculous amounts to the likes of Bendtner, Denilson, et al - and the are ridiculous and unearned amounts which is why no one else in the entire world will take them off our hands with the contracts they are on.

Our problem is not our wage bill, it is how the wages within it are distibuted amongst the team.

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Exactly and that's a result of our wage policy and structure. It has nothing to do with what Chelsea and City are doing and goes back to my original point. We've had players complaining about wages since the Vieira days, before these new money clubs and it's self imposed because we have a wage structure. We're seeing a mismanagement of funds at our club and it's all too easy to blame our drought on outside influences. We've got to look closer to home.

Wait, sorry? We can compete with £190K per week? Are you serious?

It's all relative. You pay one star that much, the other stars want that much. We pay RVP 190K p.w. then what does Wilshere deserve in a year or two? Every star player we sign or becomes one from then on will demand that much. Nor can you have good morale at a club where a left back or even someone on the bench earns like a tenth of the star player. The wage structure exists primarily to ensure that wages are relative and not too biased in a particular direction. Shonky payment structures result in dressing room unrest.

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Originally Posted by tpyo

Wait, sorry? We can compete with £190K per week? Are you serious?

It's all relative. You pay one star that much, the other stars want that much. We pay RVP 190K p.w. then what does Wilshere deserve in a year or two? Every star player we sign or becomes one from then on will demand that much. Nor can you have good morale at a club where a left back or even someone on the bench earns like a tenth of the star player. The wage structure exists primarily to ensure that wages are relative and not too biased in a particular direction. Shonky payment structures result in dressing room unrest.

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FAIL. This egalitarian structure you are proposing does nor exist in any other walk of life. Messi probably earns twice what Iniesta does at Barca, at RM the only player who earns close to what CR9 does is propably Cassilas. If you earned 80% of what your company MD does and he works twice as hard as you carrying home files to pore over each night, would YOU want to be the MD?. We have clearly seen that money motivates players, if you want to earn the same as RVP, then produce like RVP. What we have instead is Djourou on 50k and Denilson on the same and Rvp on 75k. That does not make for harmony , that causes stagnation, which is what we see at Arsenal. players better than denilson Djourou, Bendtner et al are earning 25k pw in other Prem clubs and thanking their bloody stars for it.

This is all part of the Wenger calamity. He wants to do things differently just for its own sake, and even when we all see that it doesnt work. He stubbornly refuses to change it. This is what Gazidis was supposedly supposed to change but instead he just does what Wenger wants.. Wilshire is not a star, yet he has done nothing to merit such accolades and he is just starting out in the game and is not a mercurial talent like Messi, Rooney or Ronaldo. He should be on 25k pw. If you pay him 75kpw now at 20 yrs what will he be on by the time he is 27 and maybe still has not progressed as a player like the aforementioned Djopoo and denilshyte.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

FAIL. This egalitarian structure you are proposing does nor exist in any other walk of life. Messi probably earns twice what Iniesta does at Barca, at RM the only player who earns close to what CR9 does is propably Cassilas. If you earned 80% of what your company MD does and he works twice as hard as you carrying home files to pore over each night, would YOU want to be the MD?. We have clearly seen that money motivates players, if you want to earn the same as RVP, then produce like RVP. What we have instead is Djourou on 50k and Denilson on the same and Rvp on 75k. That does not make for harmony , that causes stagnation, which is what we see at Arsenal. players better than denilson Djourou, Bendtner et al are earning 25k pw in other Prem clubs and thanking their bloody stars for it.

This is all part of the Wenger calamity. He wants to do things differently just for its own sake, and even when we all see that it doesnt work. He stubbornly refuses to change it. This is what Gazidis was supposedly supposed to change but instead he just does what Wenger wants.. Wilshire is not a star, yet he has done nothing to merit such accolades and he is just starting out in the game and is not a mercurial talent like Messi, Rooney or Ronaldo. He should be on 25k pw. If you pay him 75kpw now at 20 yrs what will he be on by the time he is 27 and maybe still has not progressed as a player like the aforementioned Djopoo and denilshyte.

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And that's why this pay structure can't last and we will have to change things soon.

He wont be here when hes 27 tbh

He'll either be too shit cos he never fully recovered from his death and be playing for a Hull City, Reading or a team of that calibre or he will have come back and be awesome and be at City or Barca

Either way he wont be here

The payment structure makes it almost impossible for young players to stay with us until that age. Even if they want to stay with us on the playing side, they won't be satisfied with their wages. It's like a glass ceiling with their earnings. The max we'll pay is around £130k right now. It can't stay that way and I suspect when we've paid down the debt and increased our revenue soon the average earnings will have to go up too. That's if we plan on revising the wage structure and making it so players can earn more. If we're talking about fairness and all, wouldn't that mean we'd have a situation where we'd have very average players earning £70k - £80k in the near future? This model is a burden and it's not smart at all.

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Originally Posted by tpyo

Wait, sorry? We can compete with £190K per week? Are you serious?

It's all relative. You pay one star that much, the other stars want that much. We pay RVP 190K p.w. then what does Wilshere deserve in a year or two? Every star player we sign or becomes one from then on will demand that much. Nor can you have good morale at a club where a left back or even someone on the bench earns like a tenth of the star player. The wage structure exists primarily to ensure that wages are relative and not too biased in a particular direction. Shonky payment structures result in dressing room unrest.

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You sound like Arsene Wenger.

Top players have never and will never get paid the same or even a little more than the more ordinary players and to suggest they should because the lesser players will be disatisfied is ludicrous.

If you're more talented and offer more you'll get paid more end of, the way we structure our salaries is a joke frankly, kids on megabucks from a young age when they've done nothing to deserve it, ordinary players earning 50-70k when they offer next to nothing....this is a total waste of resources and the reason our wage bill is out of control.

We attract lots of kids and the reason is we're happy to overpay them, noone else will offer those wages at their age...we're the Man City of youth football in a sense. What we should be doing is offering a reasonable wage and then letting the player decide if he wants to come and spending the money we save on buying and paying top players.

Wenger is beyond stale @ this point, he should do the honourable thing and pen his resignation.

If this clueless old bat had any semblance of a conscience, he'd never be able to sleep @ nights knowing he's one of the highest paid managers around (higher than SAF) and has not had a single success for the last 6 or 7 seasons.

Stacking up the team over-paid dross, which we can never be rid of and then unable to keep those worth keeping is more than an indictment on his stewardship.

Personally, I lost whatever little confidence I had in him when he made that Chamakh (or was it Arshavin? Doesn't make a difference really) substitution for Ox-Chamberlain last season. And from the look on RvP's face then, I can tell that's when he really made up his mind that he's leaving at the end of the season.