Arsenal v Manchester United, 4th Oct, 4pm, SS1

Koscielny out.

As are Flamini and Arteta.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Koscielny out.

As are Flamini and Arteta.

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We all know if we're to win Coq has to play 90 and Flam and Arteta should go no where near the pitch so this news is ok. Kos is however a massive loss but not unexpected after the week. I suspect we'll bounce back and claim a 1-1 draw, anything more would be a massive bonus tbf

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Originally Posted by Seaman's Ponytail

We all do. But it's hope/optimism now, no longer a realistic expectation. I note, maybe for the first time, that nobody is actually bothering to name the team they think will start. I suspect this is because will all have finally come to the realisation that no matter who we name in whatever position we will undoubtedly play the same way regardless.

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It's a completely realistic expectation. Our last 2 games against them were both at Old Trafford, we won the big one in the FA Cup, the league one was when we were somewhat disconcentrated by the FA Cup final and really we only needed a draw to ensure we finished above them and we got it.
We are a bit random this season but on our day we're plenty good enough to beat them.

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Originally Posted by Seaman's Ponytail

We all do. But it's hope/optimism now, no longer a realistic expectation. I note, maybe for the first time, that nobody is actually bothering to name the team they think will start. I suspect this is because will all have finally come to the realisation that no matter who we name in whatever position we will undoubtedly play the same way regardless.

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Let's be honest, we all know the starting line-up, particularly those in the key positions. If anyone isn't in the first eleven that we expect to be, it's usually because they have 'little bit strain'.

I've changed my opinion a bit about this team. At the start of the season I believed we lacked both the manager and personnel. The quality in the league has been deteriorating season-on-season and I don't think previous title winning standards apply at the moment. Looking at how sloppy Chelsea, City and Utd can be, we could of had a chance of pubbing a title, despite the chronic problems in our squad. The fact is we are not the only ones with those issues. Our biggest handicap however is our manager and continual medical issues, whatever the cause of those may be.

So can we win tomorrow? Yes. And I actually think we will at long last. The biggest letdown is that because of poor management from the bench and behind the scenes, we are going to miss out on a prime opportunity to actually contend this year, at a time when our own serious shortcomings aren't as exposed as previous years because anyone else up for the league is just as flawed.

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Originally Posted by Letters

It's a completely realistic expectation. Our last 2 games against them were both at Old Trafford, we won the big one in the FA Cup, the league one was when we were somewhat disconcentrated by the FA Cup final and really we only needed a draw to ensure we finished above them and we got it.
We are a bit random this season but on our day we're plenty good enough to beat them.

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Mate i totally hope you are right and we're a real chance but when was last time we beat them at home? Pretty sure it was 2011. Long time between drinks

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Originally Posted by Seaman's Ponytail

Mate i totally hope you are right and we're a real chance but when was last time we beat them at home? Pretty sure it was 2011. Long time between drinks

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I agree. Our record against them smells. I wouldn't say I'm confident but I do think we're good enough.
If we win it will be an indication we're serious about competing this year. If we don't then...probably another frustrating season.

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Originally Posted by Kano

The biggest letdown is that because of poor management from the bench and behind the scenes, we are going to miss out on a prime opportunity to actually contend this year.

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Are we going to miss out on that? The WUMs keep WUMming when I say it's too early to tell, but...it's 7 games in and so far we're in touch. We are contending, so far at least. I thought the Chelsea game was an indicator but when the ref is wearing a Chelsea shirt it renders it null and void as an indicator of anything. Ref permitting this is a big one. Actually I'd argue the Leicester one was quite important - rivals had dropped points, we went to a team who on the face of it we should be beating but who were in good form, the last unbeaten side. The exact sort of game we "always" mess up, but we didn't. This Sunday is another one of those games we traditionally cock up. If we win then it would show something.

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Originally Posted by Kano

Let's be honest, we all know the starting line-up, particularly those in the key positions. If anyone isn't in the first eleven that we expect to be, it's usually because they have 'little bit strain'.

I've changed my opinion a bit about this team. At the start of the season I believed we lacked both the manager and personnel. The quality in the league has been deteriorating season-on-season and I don't think previous title winning standards apply at the moment. Looking at how sloppy Chelsea, City and Utd can be, we could of had a chance of pubbing a title, despite the chronic problems in our squad. The fact is we are not the only ones with those issues. Our biggest handicap however is our manager and continual medical issues, whatever the cause of those may be.

So can we win tomorrow? Yes. And I actually think we will at long last. The biggest letdown is that because of poor management from the bench and behind the scenes, we are going to miss out on a prime opportunity to actually contend this year, at a time when our own serious shortcomings aren't as exposed as previous years because anyone else up for the league is just as flawed.

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Is the league deteriorating or is it that the other teams are getting better and can invest in better players and therefore make it harder for the bigger sides. And with a even bigger tv deal around the corner where the team finishing bottom receives £99m!!! all teams will become profitable so it becomes harder for the bigger teams to cherry pick players from others.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Are we going to miss out on that? The WUMs keep WUMming when I say it's too early to tell, but...it's 7 games in and so far we're in touch. We are contending, so far at least. I thought the Chelsea game was an indicator but when the ref is wearing a Chelsea shirt it renders it null and void as an indicator of anything. Ref permitting this is a big one. Actually I'd argue the Leicester one was quite important - rivals had dropped points, we went to a team who on the face of it we should be beating but who were in good form, the last unbeaten side. The exact sort of game we "always" mess up, but we didn't. This Sunday is another one of those games we traditionally cock up. If we win then it would show something.

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A win again Utd proves nothing. There is no indicator and especially not after one game. I still don’t know why you’re measuring progress on such a short window. This is something I’ve been trying to explain for a while now. We can beat Utd but we can also lose and drop points to teams we shouldn’t. Our form is so random and until we straighten ourselves out and prove we can perform under pressure, stay focused through a sustained period, we have no chance. We’re literally banking on our rivals being just as random and shitty with their form. That’s the only way I see us winning the league unless we sort ourselves out. It’s a game by game basis and we won’t know if this team has sorted themselves out until they’re actually on a run and performing consistently.

It’s ok to be hopeful but I’m not putting much stock on this one game. I just want to see a good team performance and certain individuals step their game up. If we can manage that, we’ll see what happens in the next game and see if they can maintain that level. I’ll be happy with a strong performance and win. 3 points will be great but there is no point in shouting from the roof about it if we scrape a win with a scrappy performance and the same individuals going missing.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Are we going to miss out on that? The WUMs keep WUMming when I say it's too early to tell, but...it's 7 games in and so far we're in touch. We are contending, so far at least. I thought the Chelsea game was an indicator but when the ref is wearing a Chelsea shirt it renders it null and void as an indicator of anything. Ref permitting this is a big one. Actually I'd argue the Leicester one was quite important - rivals had dropped points, we went to a team who on the face of it we should be beating but who were in good form, the last unbeaten side. The exact sort of game we "always" mess up, but we didn't. This Sunday is another one of those games we traditionally cock up. If we win then it would show something.

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Thing is, you have said that losing against Utd would prove it to be another season of the same 'ole. That would be only 8 games in, so wouldn't that be too early for you to make that call? I get the idea of 'season indicators' but there is a more telling story held within our results against the top 8 over the past couple of seasons. Those are the better teams in the league and where we come a cropper with this current squad, a very poor points return. Even when we picked up points from January to May last season, all against lower teams, while we continued to drop points against the better teams just above and below us. Until we rectify that, then we won't progress. The mini 'top four' league only counts when you can pick up enough points from 5-8th, something we are failing to do. The bottom twelve teams we've learnt to despatch without issue but we struggle against teams with higher quality players and more organisation.

I've seen enough of how Wenger is approaching our games so far to realise he is going to undermine any slim chance we may of had. The two CL defeats, West Ham and even the Chavs game. Sure, we were up against the ref but he didn't head in their first goal (although I'm sure he wanted to). I want to believe differently, we all do but the pattern is just too similar to ignore. For me it will take a lot more than one game to alter my perception of the team and more importantly the man in charge of them.