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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

But you still watch Arsenal knowing Usmanov is a shareholder. You still watch us knowing our Emirates ties. You're not responsible for Arsenal, City or Chelsea, but you contribute by spectator of football. You've already shown you're willing to overlook the fuckery in football simply by being spectator, so nobody really has a leg to stand on. From the corruption with Fifa, UEFA.....it's a long list. Not really for the whole moral high horse thing especially. Just sounds like points being used to beat down other posters and prop yourself up.

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He's a shareholder yes, but whilst Kroenke is there he pretty much has no decision making role at the club.

I'm so glad you can tell me what i think, no for as long as i've heard the name Usmanov It's been a continual link with crime, corruption and being an apparatchik for Vladimir Putin. If you find links between Fifa and UEFA and murder and torture in Uzbekistan than fine i take your point, my point is there's a line for me personally.

People can want Usmanov as owner if they want, me putting across my view that he is in fact worse than Kroenke is not beating them down. I am not treating them as ignorant, i can't assume i know any more about this man than anyone else but they are happy to make that compromise.

For me it's a compromise too far....and it's a long standing view (one that i held since Dein sold his shares to red and white holdings).

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

But you still watch Arsenal knowing Usmanov is a shareholder. You still watch us knowing our Emirates ties. You're not responsible for Arsenal, City or Chelsea, but you contribute by spectator of football. You've already shown you're willing to overlook the fuckery in football simply by being spectator, so nobody really has a leg to stand on. From the corruption with Fifa, UEFA.....it's a long list. Not really for the whole moral high horse thing especially. Just sounds like points being used to beat down other posters and prop yourself up.

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This from a poster who chastises other for mounting Wenger out campaigns and believes that not saying anything will somehow get him out. Oh the irony.

Even looking at Kroenke, he is no paragon of decency. Brazenly moves his teams from city to city looking for the best deal despite long standing ties to their present location. Is married into the Walmart empire who are the epitome of exploitation both at home and in the countries where his suppliers use children to make their cheap goods. On top of it all he surreptitiously pays himself 3m each year for murky "consultancy fees".

Kroenke is the owner from hell, the owner that cares no more for this club than a farmer for his chickens. Their worth is purely in how may eggs they lay each day.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

This from a poster who chastises other for mounting Wenger out campaigns and believes that not saying anything will somehow get him out. Oh the irony.

Even looking at Kroenke, he is no paragon of decency. Brazenly moves his teams from city to city looking for the best deal despite long standing ties to their present location. Is married into the Walmart empire who are the epitome of exploitation both at home and in the countries where his suppliers use children to make their cheap goods. On top of it all he surreptitiously pays himself 3m each year for murky "consultancy fees".

Kroenke is the owner from hell, the owner that cares no more for this club than a farmer for his chickens. Their worth is purely in how may eggs they lay each day.

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Apart from the fact that i have never had a go at people launching Wenger out campaigns, what i don't like is pundits telling Arsenal fans what they should be doing.

I have questioned the efficacy of such campaigns, and to this day i'm still to be convinced about how effective they will be especially as the reports are saying this morning that Wenger's decision is to sign on for one year instead of two. This is not the same as saying they shouldn't be doing it.

Just not sure fans (especially ones here who most of us don't have season tickets) having a go at fans for not being as militant as others is especially helpful when we know the fan base is divided already..

And in what way am i in anyway defending Kroenke, i think he's a wretched and greedy owner.....i want shot of him....i just think Usmanov would be even worse

I doubt Usmanov owning Arsenal will change us all into Rapists and murderers. All I am saying is that smart people know where to concentrate their energies to fight the battles that they CAN win. Usmanov will no more affect the day to day affairs of fans than Kroenke does today. The only difference is that he might pressure the manager to do more than the bare minimum each season. He can only become owner if Kroenke sells his shares to him. Usmanov would gladly buy Kroenkes shares off him at a high premium but Kroenke also loathes him so little chance of that. The other chap who dearly wants to buy the club is a Nigerian Billionaire who is little different from your typical Russian oligarch in that most of his money derives from government patronage and cushy deals to the detriment of its people. My point to you really is that the real nasty people murder thousands without even knowing who they are or that they have even done it. Just by depriving them of a decent living. But we call them industrialists or entrepreneurs or some shit. E.g your Philip Green et al.

Personally i dont know why anyone would want more than £1billion in their bank account. By the time you have that much money, you have more than you and your grandkids will ever need, unless you are in the market for billion dollar yachts or islands in which case you need medical intervention.

No it's called taking a moral stand though, do i think the manager needs to be put under pressure to perform every season whoever that manager is yes of course i don't think it requires that disgusting Slug of a man to do it.

Usmanov was the one influential in all of Gazprom's dealings with Russian satellite states which including squeezing people financially and in fact threatening to cut off the gas supply if government's didn't pay their extortion rates.

He is one of the key beneficiaries and bulldogs for Putin's mafia state.

Plus it's totally academic anyway, Kroenke does not give up the club's he acquires they are permanent ornaments for his portfolio......he is the sporting equivalent of a slum landlord.

Like i say, if you think we will be better off with that cancer in control that's your view...just don't expect me to share it.

You misunderstand me. I am not advocating Usmanov. Im just saying that he is an extant reality and the other options are not pleasant either. . In an ideal world, Kroenke would relinquish ownership of Arsenal to his son Josh and stop taking Wengers calls. Maybe he, being of a different generation might get what football means here. Heres hoping anyway.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

He's a shareholder yes, but whilst Kroenke is there he pretty much has no decision making role at the club.

I'm so glad you can tell me what i think, no for as long as i've heard the name Usmanov It's been a continual link with crime, corruption and being an apparatchik for Vladimir Putin. If you find links between Fifa and UEFA and murder and torture in Uzbekistan than fine i take your point, my point is there's a line for me personally.

People can want Usmanov as owner if they want, me putting across my view that he is in fact worse than Kroenke is not beating them down. I am not treating them as ignorant, i can't assume i know any more about this man than anyone else but they are happy to make that compromise.

For me it's a compromise too far....and it's a long standing view (one that i held since Dein sold his shares to red and white holdings).

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I'm not telling you what to think, just letting you know how it comes across and I think it's hypocritical. Fact is we all contribute to this as spectators. We love the sport but it comes with some serious baggage that we all often ignore. Wasn't there a report about over hundreds or thousands dying in order to build the Qatar stadiums on time for the 2022 World Cup? Weren't the people of Brazil robbed of public funds just to host the World Cup? But will anyone boycott watching the World Cup? I'm sure FIFA and UEFA have more dodgy dealings than reported. Filth all around in football. If you're drawing a line, great, but it's nothing to really get on your high horse about.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

This from a poster who chastises other for mounting Wenger out campaigns and believes that not saying anything will somehow get him out. Oh the irony.

Even looking at Kroenke, he is no paragon of decency. Brazenly moves his teams from city to city looking for the best deal despite long standing ties to their present location. Is married into the Walmart empire who are the epitome of exploitation both at home and in the countries where his suppliers use children to make their cheap goods. On top of it all he surreptitiously pays himself 3m each year for murky "consultancy fees".

Kroenke is the owner from hell, the owner that cares no more for this club than a farmer for his chickens. Their worth is purely in how may eggs they lay each day.

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Look deeply into what's going in football and what it supports, it's pretty filthy. I don't like it but have to separate the business from the game.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

I'm not telling you what to think, just letting you know how it comes across and I think it's hypocritical. Fact is we all contribute to this as spectators. We love the sport but it comes with some serious baggage that we all often ignore. Wasn't there a report about over hundreds or thousands dying in order to build the Qatar stadiums on time for the 2022 World Cup? Weren't the people of Brazil robbed of public funds just to host the World Cup? But will anyone boycott watching the World Cup? I'm sure FIFA and UEFA have more dodgy dealings than reported. Filth all around in football. If you're drawing a line, great, but it's nothing to really get on your high horse about.

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Again i've also been clear that Russia and Qatar should both be stripped of the world cup hosting rights


Unless i actively stop paying a licence fee it doesn't matter whether i watch those tournaments or not.

What i'm saying is that there is a line in having an owner like Usmanov and whataboutery won't change that for me, the club will have neither my patronage or support if that man becomes owner.....but as i've said the matter is incredibly academic anyway because he won't.

If Usmanov is the worst person youve ever heard of. You need to broaden your worldview.