Do we need a new manager?

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Replacing Arteta immediately is something I have not yet made up my mind on, mainly because I can't see any options besides Pooch and our season is already over.

However I have made up my mind that there is nothing special about Arteta and he's definitely not the genius we were sold (sounds familiar right). This realisation is all that matters IMO and if I was making decisions for Arsenal would guide everything I do from henceforth.... simply put , we need a new manager.

Anything else is just repeating the same mistakes we made with Emery and killing the team further.

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Yeah - I can relate to that. It's kind of against my better judgement to write Arteta off already - given the deeper issues at our club, and the fact that once you appoint an inexperienced manager you have to allow him to make mistakes. But the reason why I think I have now done so is the non-tactical decisions that he has made (not that he is looking like a tactical genius either). Good judgment; clarity of purpose and good man management are all attributes that even an inexperienced manager should be able to display, but as far as we can tell, Arteta has shown none of this and I cannot see how this is going to improve.

So yes, I think we need a new manager. But I think also that we need to trust Arteta not to get us relegated (and possibly make a pragmatic January signing to help this), and keep him to the end of the season on the basis that proper plans are made in the mentime to get the appointment that we need, because this experiment is not working.

Arteta may well go on to have a bright future but for whatever reason he’s struggling with the cards he’s been dealt. The job might just be too big for him as it would be for any rookie.

Di Matteo won Chelsea the CL but he hasn’t been heard of since. This game isn’t for everyone and we haven’t really seen anything innovative or special from Arteta that suggests he could be some kind of trailblazer. I just seen a bog standard coach with no real ideas and tactics straight out of a coaching for dummies book.

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Originally Posted by Gooner23

The issues at the club run way deeper than just the manager; however the decisions Arteta is making are increasingly bizarre and the 'brand' of football just cannot be defended. For that reason I reluctantly do think he needs to go.

If he was blooding more of the youth players and showing some signs of progress I think he would earn more time and patience.

But if Arteta goes then so must Edu. Both seem out of their depth.

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Over and over I say this and people do not get the import of this.

When we had the Dein/AW combo we were successful, competitive and going somewhere. Despite the whole world acclaiming AW a genius, practically every big footballing decision he made was actually left to Dein, who could agree or overrule at anytime, just like he did to AW in the Cashley saga (a decision I still hate till now).

Dein was the guy who supported Wenger when he deviated from our model of buying bargain foreign talent to developing young players... Fabregas still confirmed that it was Dein who kidnapped him from Barca and gave he and his parents their first jobs here! BTW he was left with little option than agreeing to a cheaper model as the board had overruled him in staying at Highbury (he argued that the money we would spend on the stadium should be invested in the team instead as he saw increased competition coming; note it wasn't AW who made this argument, it was DEIN). Eventually when he was proven right about the need to invest in the squad and the premiership had changed dramatically with the coming of Roman and others, it was still the same Dein who singlehandedly went shopping for the "right" kind of Sugar Daddy for us so we could compete. We all know the story from here.

My point is that an Exec who is foremost a football person, will definitely make better decisions , especially in the long run, than any so called business genius could. Abramovich is finally reaping his rewards and dividends from Chelsea because he made decisions as a fan of the game first and not as an Exec. Most analysts thought at first he would never recoup his investment and couldn't understand what he was doing chopping and changing managers, but now look who is laughing.

Our leadership must come from on top; till this is sorted, we won't see any significant change or get back to where we use to be.

https://www.gunnerstown.com/arsenal/...vice-chairman/

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Originally Posted by Gooner23

The issues at the club run way deeper than just the manager; however the decisions Arteta is making are increasingly bizarre and the 'brand' of football just cannot be defended. For that reason I reluctantly do think he needs to go.

If he was blooding more of the youth players and showing some signs of progress I think he would earn more time and patience.

But if Arteta goes then so must Edu. Both seem out of their depth.

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:gp:

Absolutely this.

Both of them are way out of their depth IMO.

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Over and over I say this and people do not get the import of this.

When we had the Dein/AW combo we were successful, competitive and going somewhere. Despite the whole world acclaiming AW a genius, practically every big footballing decision he made was actually left to Dein, who could agree or overrule at anytime, just like he did to AW in the Cashley saga (a decision I still hate till now).

Dein was the guy who supported Wenger when he deviated from our model of buying bargain foreign talent to developing young players... Fabregas still confirmed that it was Dein who kidnapped him from Barca and gave he and his parents their first jobs here! BTW he was left with little option than agreeing to a cheaper model as the board had overruled him in staying at Highbury (he argued that the money we would spend on the stadium should be invested in the team instead as he saw increased competition coming; note it wasn't AW who made this argument, it was DEIN). Eventually when he was proven right about the need to invest in the squad and the premiership had changed dramatically with the coming of Roman and others, it was still the same Dein who singlehandedly went shopping for the "right" kind of Sugar Daddy for us so we could compete. We all know the story from here.

My point is that an Exec who is foremost a football person, will definitely make better decisions , especially in the long run, than any so called business genius could. Abramovich is finally reaping his rewards and dividends from Chelsea because he made decisions as a fan of the game first and not as an Exec. Most analysts thought at first he would never recoup his investment and couldn't understand what he was doing chopping and changing managers, but now look who is laughing.

Our leadership must come from on top; till this is sorted, we won't see any significant change or get back to where we use to be.

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:gp:

However, my understanding of the Cashley Cole issue is that he had a verbal agreement with Dein and it was the board who overrode it. Dein disappeared not long after that. Wenger was not pleased and, for the only time I remember, gave away the board by saying it was 'ridiculous to lose a player over 5K'.

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Originally Posted by Coney

:gp:

However, my understanding of the Cashley Cole issue is that he had a verbal agreement with Dein and it was the board who overrode it. Dein disappeared not long after that. Wenger was not pleased and, for the only time I remember, gave away the board by saying it was 'ridiculous to lose a player over 5K'.

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yeah i heard the same thing. he was one of the best players to come through at Arsenal. i know to us 55k or 60k a week is still alot of money but for a footballer it can be the principle plus he would have got even more at Chelsea. a players career is short and weddings, divorces and extravagence doesnt buy itself.

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Originally Posted by Bumble

weddings, divorces and extravagence doesnt buy itself.

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:d

Tricky one... there’s probably not much point in bringing in a new coach much before the summer (and it needs to be a coach, not a manager) when a glut of senior contracts expire and we’ll actually have something for them to work with.

But at that point the job will also get considerably easier for Arteta too? Difficult to say how much of what we’re seeing atm is down to genuine inability as a coach, or just a rookie being saddled with an uncoachable, unbalanced, catastrophically flawed senior playing staff and way, way too many fires to put out?

I’ve got to say, my hopes for him have been badly rocked since the Utd game, but I can still be won around in the second part of the season. Needs to be a hell of a turnaround though! I want to see what he does after the January window has closed, and the final chance of clawing back any kind of money for certain senior players has gone. If he still persists with them beyond that point, and doesn’t put his efforts fully behind the future, then he definitely needs to go.

Before we can even begin to think about new coaches, though, it’s absolutely imperative that we get rid of Edu, otherwise this is the guy who is going to be making the next hire. And unless Vinnai has the stones to give Edu his marching orders (and demote Arteta back to head coach) then he might need to go as well, as this whole chain of moves begins with him.

In fact the whole chain probably starts with overhauling the board, otherwise who oversees the CEO?

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Originally Posted by I am invisible

Difficult to say how much of what we’re seeing atm is down to genuine inability as a coach, or just a rookie being saddled with an uncoachable, unbalanced, catastrophically flawed senior playing staff and way, way too many fires to put out?

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Hmm, weren’t we all encouraged last season that he did manage to work with what he had though? That was his biggest achievement, so to speak. The group of players had already been deemed uncoachable but he organised them and at one point they even looked like a reasonably solid unit. He took credit for that then so it can’t suddenly be the players now.

I just think he’s an average coach who’s dug his own grave with multiple decisions that have backfired horrendously.

However I do believe he should be left to finish the job this season. Then we can have absolutely no doubt about the decision facing us.