The Arsenal v Man Ure, Sunday 3 September 2023, 16.30

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Originally Posted by Mac76

to answer both your posts:

I agree we should have got Caicedo instead but I'm not allowing Rice's price tag to prejudice me agianst him and whether he adds something or not and i think he does.

As for doing the basics, we need someone other than Zin to try to connect play up in the middle, as Zin blatantly can't do the basics and keeps giving the ball away - over time I was hoping Timber and Rice between them would convince Arteta to give up his Zin obsession ut with Timber injured i guess that's not happening

Havertz is the one who adds nothing except in terms of being another player that Arteta will now persist with because he's tied his reputation to him - how many of these do we need?

Havertz was kind of playing up front at times on Saturday and completely messed up every opportunity.

I too am a fan of Jorg and I think we will see him play a bit in various competitions

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I think this is going to go round and round. I honestly don’t know what you’re seeing with Rice. I could just debase this conversation by going on about how you saw Xhaka being a teachers pet but I don’t think that’s necessary.

Connect play up in the middle? He can’t do that. He’s not quick enough or technical enough. I’m not saying that to be spiteful but it’s just the case. Jorginho has the range of passing and Partey can potentially carry the ball forward so in reality you want Partey playing at no 8 Sunday.

You would then bring on Rice if we were leading and need someone to tidy things up


I don’t know with Havertz, he hasn’t admittedly offered anything so far but although there were better and cheaper options for this, what he offers that no one else does is he can hold up the ball (and he did so against city) and he can offer more aerial threat than Jesus or Edward.


I think Chelsea was always a mess of a club even when he joined it first of all. And it’s possible you won’t ever see the player he was at Bayer Leverkusen. But I do know there’s clearly a player of great skill and potential in there, it’s possible Arteta lacks the ability to bring it out of him.

Rice WYSIWYG….and yeah it’s tidy and efficient. But we need more than tidy and efficient. And because of that, playing him amounts to a waste of a position

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

United are not very good away from home so we should be confident of getting a result.

I feel like the dull opponents we’ve had to start has also contributed to the insipid displays but I expect to see a much better showing here given the step up in calibre.

If we lose this then I would be very concerned at the trajectory we’re going to be heading in over the next few games which aren’t favourable fixtures.

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I also think we'll play better.

I just hope we will not waste our chances.

If Arteta had started us of the way he should have, I could see us giving them a real hiding, like Liverpool did to them last season

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

I also think we'll play better.

I just hope we will not waste our chances.

If Arteta had started us of the way he should have, I could see us giving them a real hiding, like Liverpool did to them last season

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I’ve seen some terrible defending in my time. But United’s defending against Liverpool is probably the worst defending I’ve seen in the top flight, worse than Derby County, worse than us when we lost 8-2 to United. It’s the kind of defending that should have been investigated for match fixing. Confident we’d have scored at least 7 if they defended like that against us

My lineup against united:


.................... Rams (until we see Raya).......

White.......Saliba.......Gabriel................ Zin

......Odegaard.........Partey............Rice

.......Saka,...........Eddie.........Trosaard

I would have loved to start Viera, and probably still could, if i went for 3 defenders like Arteta might still do, but I feel these are our best players and though some like Odegaard have not done enough to deserve to start, I'd still persist.

Viera definitely comes in as the 1st sub once we have the advantage or if its still looking like a draw.

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

My lineup against united:


.................... Rams (until we see Raya).......

White.......Saliba.......Gabriel................ Zin

......Odegaard.........Partey............Rice

.......Saka,...........Eddie.........Trosaard

I would have loved to start Viera, and probably still could, if i went for 3 defenders like Arteta might still do, but I feel these are our best players and though some like Odegaard have not done enough to deserve to start, I'd still persist.

Viera definitely comes in as the 1st sub once we have the advantage or if its still looking like a draw.

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Well you've left Havertz out which is a good start, but the trouble with the rest is that Rice will have to spend all his time trying to clean up after Zin when he makes a mess

And I'm not sold on the whole Rice+Partey idea, I don't get why we would play two DMs especially in a home match, we need more creativity there

I think if you take Partey out and have Vieira in left 8, plus of course swap Zin for Kiwior, it's a better balance

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Well you've left Havertz out which is a good start, but the trouble with the rest is that Rice will have to spend all his time trying to clean up after Zin when he makes a mess

And I'm not sold on the whole Rice+Partey idea, I don't get why we would play two DMs especially in a home match, we need more creativity there

I think if you take Partey out and have Vieira in left 8, plus of course swap Zin for Kiwior, it's a better balance

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In some ways I’d like to see Rice start without Partey just so people can see how terrible this would be. No chance of getting the ball forward quickly, and no alternative outlet without playing White which leaves us massively exposed on our right flank. It would be an absolute nightmare. But then I don’t want us to lose games just to prove a point

I also love this idea that on the back of a half decent cameo against Fulham, that suddenly Vieira isn’t a malnourished waste of a position. Shows you how people are quick to judge. I’m not judging Rice on three league games with us, I’m judging him on four-five years with West Ham and England.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

In some ways I’d like to see Rice start without Partey just so people can see how terrible this would be. No chance of getting the ball forward quickly, and no alternative outlet without playing White which leaves us massively exposed on our right flank. It would be an absolute nightmare. But then I don’t want us to lose games just to prove a point

I also love this idea that on the back of a half decent cameo against Fulham, that suddenly Vieira isn’t a malnourished waste of a position. Shows you how people are quick to judge. I’m not judging Rice on three league games with us, I’m judging him on four-five years with West Ham and England.

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I'm judging Vieira on what he'a done since he got here - the flashes of quality he's shown ever since he's arrived, characteristically under-used by Arteta he's now had a chance to settle in the side and was good in pre-season, especially against Monaco and yes a great performance v Fulham

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

In some ways I’d like to see Rice start without Partey just so people can see how terrible this would be. No chance of getting the ball forward quickly, and no alternative outlet without playing White which leaves us massively exposed on our right flank. It would be an absolute nightmare. But then I don’t want us to lose games just to prove a point

I also love this idea that on the back of a half decent cameo against Fulham, that suddenly Vieira isn’t a malnourished waste of a position. Shows you how people are quick to judge. I’m not judging Rice on three league games with us, I’m judging him on four-five years with West Ham and England.

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I'm definitely not saying Viera is the next coming. I've been one of his biggest critics on here and I still feel in general he's not the right kind of player for us.

However his brief cameo was far better than what we've been forced to endure since Kai Havertz sullied our doorstep, and TBH almost at par with all of Odegaard's contribution this season.

However Viera is not a player I think I'm going to change my mind on to much, unless he perfects his shooting, then maybe he'd become an undroppable starter in my mind. As for now, he's a much needed squad player in an unbalanced team.

Apparently Partey is injured for 3 months.

Huge loss, but in a way it might solve a problem Arteta didn't otherwise seem capable of.