Where Arsenal is going wrong

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03-08-2011, 09:32 AM
IBK

Quote:

Originally Posted by Japan Shaking All Over

I believe a lot of our problems stem from not being able to recognise our own face in the mirror!

It's as we see the problems ie the defence but just refuse to look at them more through them and my looking through them we fail to acknowledge them thus leave them unattended.

The GK/defence problem has been with us for yonks now and the lack of mental strength, just as long.......a failure to kill off games comes about by this because we prance around like everyone owes us.

No-one thinks they owe us anything, thats why we get pushed around......we get pushed around on the pitch, in the transfer market and by our own players and their contracts.
This summer seems to be a prime example.......we are incapable it seems of clinching a deal without a drawn out saga.......we get every bid we make thrown back at us be it for our lack of respect and arrogance or that we are just tight. Teams know they can say no and force us to come back with another offer or lose out.......they also know we half, maybe 3/4s have our hands tieed because we cant decide what to do about Cesc/Nasri..........FFS just grow a pair and for IMO tke a hit.......sell them both and build new tem of commited players........I will take a naff season if I see ambition in the team

I agree there is a lot of moaning but that can be expected........we are having a rough time and we all believe we have the answer, we dont know what is going on so we assume and like most, those assumptions are negative but fairly made on past experiences and evidence.
Everyone is shit scared of Wenger doing another tick like he did last year.......Kos and Squid to answer our defensive needs.

The board are the only ones who dont seem to be getting pushed around, in fact they are times seem to be unmovable, the stubborn gits.......they seem to pushing us around, getting us to accept, statements, quickly followed by contradictory actions...........I remain optimistic that there are still things to happen but I get frustrated most by the Cesc/Nasri sagas and want to see these concluded, I heard Wenger saying by Sunday, but I still feel none the wiser.

time to take a hard look, a hard look at ourselves and what needs to be done in order to make ourselves beautiful again.......it may not require that much but it does require some work Wenger........hopefully you will see it for what it really is!

Problem is that we now have a bad reputation in a number of different ways:

- Contract ditherers - is it any wonder that other clubs and quality players don't take us seriously in the transfer market

- A selling club - personally, I find it unsurprising that Barca are playing the game they are. They know that in all likelihood we will sell in the end. And teh upside for them is that they don't even need him, and will be getting a world class player on the cheap. Meanwhile, our misguided efforts to get market price are playing havoc with our close season.

- A stepping stone. I don't believe that we are a true destination club ATM. This is why its easy to believe that Jagielka would rather stay put. We have a reputation for giving unknown/young players a break and rewarding them handsomely - but the most ambitious of them will invitably be tempted elsewhere.

- Serial under-achievers. I'm not sure that we deserve this rep, because IMHO AW has over-achieved with the players/funds at his disposal - but nevertheless we are seen as a team that will always fall short - whether it be the CL final; the CC final or the league

The end of last season and this transfer window has done nothing but double underline the above. Yet while decisive action is necessary to do something about the club's nose-diving reputation, we are giving every impression of fiddling while Rome burns - and the problem is that even a couple of signings now will make no difference to this perception.

We seem so small time it hurts!
03-08-2011, 09:38 AM
LDG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping

Problem is that we now have a bad reputation in a number of different ways:

- Contract ditherers - is it any wonder that other clubs and quality players don't take us seriously in the transfer market

- A selling club - personally, I find it unsurprising that Barca are playing the game they are. They know that in all likelihood we will sell in the end. And teh upside for them is that they don't even need him, and will be getting a world class player on the cheap. Meanwhile, our misguided efforts to get market price are playing havoc with our close season.

- A stepping stone. I don't believe that we are a true destination club ATM. This is why its easy to believe that Jagielka would rather stay put. We have a reputation for giving unknown/young players a break and rewarding them handsomely - but the most ambitious of them will invitably be tempted elsewhere.

- Serial under-achievers. I'm not sure that we deserve this rep, because IMHO AW has over-achieved with the players/funds at his disposal - but nevertheless we are seen as a team that will always fall short - whether it be the CL final; the CC final or the league

The end of last season and this transfer window has done nothing but double underline the above. Yet while decisive action is necessary to do something about the club's nose-diving reputation, we are giving every impression of fiddling while Rome burns - and the problem is that even a couple of signings now will make no difference to this perception.

We seem so small time it hurts!

On the money.
03-08-2011, 10:40 AM
Japan Shaking All Over

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping

Problem is that we now have a bad reputation in a number of different ways:

- Contract ditherers - is it any wonder that other clubs and quality players don't take us seriously in the transfer market

- A selling club - personally, I find it unsurprising that Barca are playing the game they are. They know that in all likelihood we will sell in the end. And teh upside for them is that they don't even need him, and will be getting a world class player on the cheap. Meanwhile, our misguided efforts to get market price are playing havoc with our close season.

- A stepping stone. I don't believe that we are a true destination club ATM. This is why its easy to believe that Jagielka would rather stay put. We have a reputation for giving unknown/young players a break and rewarding them handsomely - but the most ambitious of them will invitably be tempted elsewhere.

- Serial under-achievers. I'm not sure that we deserve this rep, because IMHO AW has over-achieved with the players/funds at his disposal - but nevertheless we are seen as a team that will always fall short - whether it be the CL final; the CC final or the league

The end of last season and this transfer window has done nothing but double underline the above. Yet while decisive action is necessary to do something about the club's nose-diving reputation, we are giving every impression of fiddling while Rome burns - and the problem is that even a couple of signings now will make no difference to this perception.

We seem so small time it hurts!

good post

Quote:

We seem so small time it hurts!

that part I feel as LDG said is on the money.......and you're right it does hurt!

the warning signs were there, the fact that we couldn't win back to back league titles showed the cracks, it seems that we lack the ability to consolidate, build for the future all good and well but not strengthen today, big mistake IMO - that shows itself on the pitch too.......I mean how many of you are confident that a 2 goal lead at half-time means 3 points in the bag?
We skinted ourselves with the way we pampered the young-uns - Bendtner should never have been given the kind of salary he got at his age unless he was playing like a teenage Wayne Rooney. We will never tempt players from clubs that they feel are our equals - Jags is one of these,　I mean he has as much chance winning the CC with Everton as he does with us

Like I said, can't help but feeling like we get pushed around and its not until we decide to stand up for ourselves will things change......I believe it means taking a few risks, tinkering with the system both on and off the pitch
We are not a bad team we showed that we are not that far from achieving something but its just that it seems everyone has oue number knowes we will cave in if enough pressure is applied.......this again is both on and off the pitch because you can bet that Barca/Utd/Citeh are loving seeing us squirm as we fret over the future of certain players and the way such stories affect other squad members.

wish I had the answer but we do need to take a look in that mirror again and show more pride in ourselves/more self belief and above all from Wenger and the board more decisive leadership would be a start
03-08-2011, 10:53 AM
LDG

It's looking more and more like the only thing that will stop the rot is fans voting with their wallets, as GB stated in his e-mail to vinger@marketing.arse.uk.

The only hope we have is that silent Stan see the problems which may affect his long-term investment, and kick the fuck out of the current board and the manager.

The more I think about it, whilst Wenger is in on the current plan, and is oh so obviously tied into his project and ideals, I'm sure he would also be open to more freedom in his purchasing should Jimmy Kranke decide enough is enough.

He won't walk away from a contract, so if Stan ups the ante and requests more from his manager, he'll stick in and perhaps do the necessary.

We can but hope.

For now, I think our owner is happy to watch by the sidelines.
03-08-2011, 11:23 AM
Dog Toffee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping

This is not another gripe about AW or our players. I feel as disillusioned as the next Gooner - but TBH the constant gloom and doom around our club is getting wearing - and the net effect is to kill my enthusiasm a bit.

And its this that is making me think about why things have got to this 'perfect storm' of negativity. We seem to slag many of our players off constantly, yet as a team they still finished 4th in the league last season, were narrowly beaten in the CL by the supposed best team in the world (the EPL winners - the mighty Manure - were thrashed by them in the final), and did better for most of the season than they had been expected to.

We bitch about 6 years without a trophy, yet realistically - for four of those years we could be said to have over-achieved rather than under-achieved - while the club achieved a stadium project that the likes of Liverpool; Spurs and Everton are still dreaming about.

Last season we might have imploded at the end but our most bitter rivals ended up out of the CL - having spent years and tens of millions in player purchases trying to get there. Yet Spurs fans are nowhere near as despondent and angry as we are.

Yes, some of our players have underperformed - but this is the case at every club. We are frail defensively - but still one of the best in the league going forwards. We lack leadership - but have a more British flavour in our team now than we have had for a decade.

On a rataional basis, none of the above should be sufficient to casue the angst that results in the team being booed in friendlies at the beginning of the season!

So why the bitterness? Well IMO it is mostly to do with the disconnect that has arisen between fans and the board, and the club is handling the situation badly.

After the horror show of last season...

Doesn't really make sense
03-08-2011, 11:40 AM
IBK

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog Toffee

Doesn't really make sense

And that does?
03-08-2011, 11:49 AM
IBK

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDG

It's looking more and more like the only thing that will stop the rot is fans voting with their wallets, as GB stated in his e-mail to vinger@marketing.arse.uk.

The only hope we have is that silent Stan see the problems which may affect his long-term investment, and kick the fuck out of the current board and the manager.

The more I think about it, whilst Wenger is in on the current plan, and is oh so obviously tied into his project and ideals, I'm sure he would also be open to more freedom in his purchasing should Jimmy Kranke decide enough is enough.

He won't walk away from a contract, so if Stan ups the ante and requests more from his manager, he'll stick in and perhaps do the necessary.

We can but hope.

For now, I think our owner is happy to watch by the sidelines.

The problem with this is that it will take a long time, IMO, for the club to exhaust the demand to a degree that causes a change in direction. I was struck on the weekend, by how many Gooners turned out to a competition that , TBH, has become a bit meaningless, and in circumstances where there was hardly an array of new talent on show.

And the real irony is that there is still enough in this team, and its likely performances to keep the punters coming back. We are not talking about a Liverpool style implosion at AFC - just a gnawing frustration that the club is not competing as strongly as it should be able to. Its astonishing that we should be even talking about a walk out given the relative position of the club.

But we have certainly lost the lustre we had 6 years ago - and the club is making some big mistakes in managing this situation. It is of great concern that at board level there seems an inability to see how we are increasingly being perceived outside the club.
03-08-2011, 12:59 PM
Fist of Lehmann

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping

The problem with this is that it will take a long time, IMO, for the club to exhaust the demand to a degree that causes a change in direction. I was struck on the weekend, by how many Gooners turned out to a competition that , TBH, has become a bit meaningless, and in circumstances where there was hardly an array of new talent on show.

And the real irony is that there is still enough in this team, and its likely performances to keep the punters coming back. We are not talking about a Liverpool style implosion at AFC - just a gnawing frustration that the club is not competing as strongly as it should be able to. Its astonishing that we should be even talking about a walk out given the relative position of the club.

But we have certainly lost the lustre we had 6 years ago - and the club is making some big mistakes in managing this situation. It is of great concern that at board level there seems an inability to see how we are increasingly being perceived outside the club.

The gradual loss of gates might represent a slow puncture, but an entended stay out of the top 4 and it's attendent CL revenue is more likely to precipitate change.

The sad thing is that apparently it is money that drives change not fan disatisfaction. Any club that ignores fans, and worse, seems to focus on 'monetising' them (in other words, turning fans into money), has forgotten what it exists for.

Forbes list us a the third richest club in the world worth $1.19bn. That's a figure that factors market share price, assets, revenue, debt and whatnot. And we have got there, not through the Arsenalisation of the Emirates, but through the Monetisation of the Arsenal.

Worse still is the idea that Man Utd can be even more profitable yet not at the expense of winning.

This is the entitlement generation, people feel they are owed something, especially those of us who pay through the nose to attend matches but also those who pay nothing and are angry by proxy. Because it's a psychology thing, even if we've paid nothing physically, we've still bought in.

This perfect storm of anger is akin to the behaviour of cheated and fobbed off consumers.
03-08-2011, 01:25 PM
IBK

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fist of Lehmann

The gradual loss of gates might represent a slow puncture, but an entended stay out of the top 4 and it's attendent CL revenue is more likely to precipitate change.

The sad thing is that apparently it is money that drives change not fan disatisfaction. Any club that ignores fans, and worse, seems to focus on 'monetising' them (in other words, turning fans into money), has forgotten what it exists for.

Forbes list us a the third richest club in the world worth $1.19bn. That's a figure that factors market share price, assets, revenue, debt and whatnot. And we have got there, not through the Arsenalisation of the Emirates, but through the Monetisation of the Arsenal.

Worse still is the idea that Man Utd can be even more profitable yet not at the expense of winning.

This is the entitlement generation, people feel they are owed something, especially those of us who pay through the nose to attend matches but also those who pay nothing and are angry by proxy. Because it's a psychology thing, even if we've paid nothing physically, we've still bought in.

This perfect storm of anger is akin to the behaviour of cheated and fobbed off consumers.

:gp:

Especially

Quote:

The gradual loss of gates might represent a slow puncture, but an entended stay out of the top 4 and it's attendent CL revenue is more likely to precipitate change.

This is the absolute crux of the matter. We fans may feel that things are headed in the wrong direction at our club, but I think that the manager, the owner and the board believe that the garden is absolutely rosy, while the mythical top 4 place keeps guaranteeing the revenue, the exposure and the attendances.

I'd say that this is why little seems to be happening to address what we fans see as glaring deficiencies, despite the right noises being made at different times. This together with perhaps an optimistic belief that the Fair Play rules might restore some parity to the EPL when they kick in.

The problem for me is that if this approach is taken top 4 becomes a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy, because players as well as fans will recognise that the team that results will not seriously be challenging for silverware.

There seems to be a serious lack of balls around AFC to

- Take some proper, decisive action to turn things around while we still maintain a vestige of 'big club' status

- Concentrate on the day job - which is achieving success on the football pitch rather than achieving the perfect business model

And the frustrating thing is that our club is big and established enough to get the 2 or 3 players we need without breaking the bank, and without fecking about and coming up short. But we are behaving like some loser earning chump change while being cuckholded by his wife.
03-08-2011, 01:53 PM
LDG

Someone ought to get the video of all the games we fucked up in the last part of the season and remind Wenger of how gutted he was when he saw everything collapsing before his eyes.

Sadly what seems to have happened, is that the summer break has cooled his emotions, and now he's decided he was still right, and things only need a little tinker.

Cock that.

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