So what do we do to improve our prospects of mounting a challenge for the league and other competitions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

again, questions avoided.

yes it's nice and fluffy where we are right now but football is ever evolving and you die unless you move forward - how long can we keep scraping into the top 4, juggling too much before we drop all the balls? i would rather be proactive than reactive.

basing the performance of a team over 7 years is more than a fair assessment. Sure a season or two is not enough but repeated patterns only lead to one thing – which is the staleness we face now. If i and many others didn’t believe we could not have achieved more during that time without breaking the bank, then the noise against the manager would not be growing but it is because we have all see the same things manifest again and again.

how can i conceded a point that we would lose more by changing the manager when that is based on nothing. do you think montpellier should give the title to psg this season? Or Dortmund give it to Bayern, before apologising for beating them twice?

money is not the answer here. getting the maximum out of the resources available to you is the key here and something wenger has not done for a while now, despite still doing a good job.

---

PSG will eventually buy the title after chopping and changing managers enough to finally find the right one. The other teams have at least had several seasons to build squads without there star players being poached every season form richer clubs within there league.

Within the EPL, there is virtually no evidence of a manager coming to a team and instantly producing sustained consistant success, Pardew comes close, but I'll give him a season or too before saying he's the second coming of SAF.

In most cases, by almost a factor of 5, the opposite happens. Which I think your completely unable to accept via ignorance or petulance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AKBapologist

PSG will eventually buy the title after chopping and changing managers enough to finally find the right one. The other teams have at least had several seasons to build squads without there star players being poached every season form richer clubs within there league.

Within the EPL, there is virtually no evidence of a manager coming to a team and instantly producing sustained consistant success, Pardew comes close, but I'll give him a season or too before saying he's the second coming of SAF.

In most cases, by almost a factor of 5, the opposite happens. Which I think your completely unable to accept via ignorance or petulance.

---

says the man who said, show me the stats or fuck off. just deal with the tone you created.

the point of dortmund and mont is that success is achievable in and amongst the money being spent by other teams.

you keep using the word 'instant' yet i'm pretty sure i haven't mentioned that at all in any post. me thinks its a cliched argument you are used to using against fickle fans demanding trophies now. the thing is, if you read actually read my posts, you would see that is not the case here, so try to adapt a little and evolve your position, as it is now looking dated.

it appears you are still clinging onto wenger eventually turning it all around and brining us the title, completely deluded to what is happening on the pitch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

says the man who said, show me the stats or fuck off. just deal with the tone you created.

the point of dortmund and mont is that success is achievable in and amongst the money being spent by other teams.

you keep using the word 'instant' yet i'm pretty sure i haven't mentioned that at all in any post. me thinks its a cliched argument you are used to using against fickle fans demanding trophies now. the thing is, if you read actually read my posts, you would see that is not the case here, so try to adapt a little and evolve your position, as it is now looking dated.

it appears you are still clinging onto wenger eventually turning it all around and brining us the title, completely deluded to what is happening on the pitch.

---

I'm deluded?

You've (ironically) cherry picked one or two examples of clubs doing exactly what Wenger did with us at the start of his career, whilst completely ignoring what has been going on over the last few years in our league. I even threw you a bone with Pardew but then someone else would look at how newcastle got there in the first place. Add to that wolves or blackburn have got relegated, chelsea or liverpool and a few others and you can see that just changing the manager alone will garentee you fuck all on any timescale.

No, Wenger isn't the best manager in the world, he has many faults, but I look where we are, look at the positives as well as the negatives and form a balanced view that we're not too bad off with everything considered, that no, another manager wouldn't, by virtue of some naive ideal, inherit everything good from the last, and wouldn't need significant time to adapt over which, things could get significantly worse before better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AKBapologist

I'm deluded?

You've (ironically) cherry picked one or two examples of clubs doing exactly what Wenger did with us at the start of his career, whilst completely ignoring what has been going on over the last few years in our league. I even threw you a bone with Pardew but then someone else would look at how newcastle got there in the first place. Add to that wolves or blackburn have got relegated, chelsea or liverpool and a few others and you can see that just changing the manager alone will garentee you fuck all on any timescale.

No, Wenger isn't the best manager in the world, he has many faults, but I look where we are, look at the positives as well as the negatives and form a balanced view that we're not too bad off with everything considered, that no, another manager wouldn't, by virtue of some naive ideal, inherit everything good from the last, and wouldn't need significant time to adapt over which, things could get significantly worse before better.

---

i offered examples of clubs achieving success in the modern environment of money completely swamping the game - it was no where near this level when wenger arrived and was successful. two clear examples in two prominent european leagues proving that you can nick success here and there - very much in keeping with our tradition. yet according to you and some others, we would never be able to do the same - all of which is out of wengers control.

you have mentioned wenger has faults - what are they in your eyes exactly, because bar that headline statement you have not made any attempt to solidify what they are.

using your logic, wenger needs to stay forever as no one will ever be able to do the same for us and once he either dies or cryogenics doesn't work, our club is doomed.

you have this view that everything will get worse once he leaves - why so negative? why take the lazy easy approach and believe that things can't actually get even better than they currently are - it takes a lot more faith to do that than clinging onto false hope and a past now fading. this isn't about guarantees, as they do not exist in any sport but this is about having the balls to move on and grow - you can sit on your hands, play safe and protect your little world or take calculated risks and make something out of yourself, those are the options for arsenal. it seems you fall into the former category.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letters

Utilisation of resources is the main one IMO. The frustrating thing for me in the last few years is that Wenger has done brilliantly to keep us 'up there' but really poorly in terms of finishing the job or delivering trophies. Too many times we've had promising sides who didn't need £100m spent on them to push them to the next level, just some sensible investment and instead we've sold our best players and gone backwards or sideways. We're in the same position now. After last summer's car crash we got it together and finished strongly (well, we didn't finish that strongly but we got ourselves in a position where we could stumble over the line). Do the right things in the summer and while I don't think we can win the league next year we can at least push the top 2 harder and maybe challenge more strongly in the cups. The early signing of Podolski gives me some hope that maybe, just maybe, we're going to get it right this year. But we need to sign up RvP too and maybe the signings are as much for him as for the club, to show that we are trying to go somewhere. If Podolski is a replacement for RvP then we might as well all go home.

---

:gp:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GB.

Another similarly titled thread as so many others has moved from it's original and interesting topic to the 'lets all whinge at why there is no point doing anything because Man City spend hundreds of millions of pounds' topic.

Even if you think we face an insurmountable object, surely there are things we as a Club can do to improve our lot, unless you think we have become as competitive as possible with no room for improving our:

-management
-coaching
-players
-tactics
-approach to investment
-utilisation of resources
-ownership structure
-competition prioritisation
-salary structure
-star player retention

Or any of another multitude of things we should be considering. Just whinging at other Clubs spending hundreds of millions will get us nowhere and has become drearily repetitive on far too many potentially good topics on this board.

---

Bring in a man that is willing to give us money to win us the league. Bring in a manager that can cope with that.

Like you say we need to use the Resources we have and make sure we use them to the best.

IMO forget the league and focus on the cups for the next few couple of seasons anyway. So the lads can get used to winning then once we have ourselves in a place where we feel we can compete with the top 2 then worry about the league.


IMO its down to RVP if he goes then this thread becomes Irrelvant anyway.

Just read the thread from Start to finish.

Wow just Wow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joker

We do need a new manager IMO, Wenger doesn't seem to have the ability to win trophies anymore. There's no point whinging about City's wealth when we fail to beat a side like Birmingham (with vastly inferior resources) in the Carling Cup final. In fact look at our record in semi finals/finals since 2005 and it's been abysmal. Wenger's a safe pair of hands to keep us in the top 4, but he seems to have become so obsessed with treating this club like a business that some of that competitive desire in terms of winning trophies seems to have gone.

That's without mentioning the fact that tactically, I think he's been extremely mediocre for a good while now. This doesn't mean we want Alex McCleish or Steve Kean to take over, but there are clearly many managers out there who have a better understanding of tactics and how to put together a team that complements each other than Wenger. You only need to look at difficulty keeping hold of leads to see that Wenger is clueless when it comes to that side of the game.

---

Funny how Daivid Dein said he does and he knows him better then anyone else. Of course he has the abilty thats a silly coment to make its his stubboness stopping him doing it.

Yes we should have won the CC and Wenger does get his tactics wrong. But if the pressure was on Wenger to win something he clearly would. He could go to one of the top teams in france and win them the tophies as he'd get players who are suited to it.

I agree he needs to stop pandering to the board and more to the fans and this again is where he is failing.

IMO Wenger needs a change as much as we do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Just read the thread from Start to finish.

Wow just Wow.

---

This. I love the way Joker keeps popping up between TT and AKB's posts. . .whats that about racism towards Arabs?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Japan Shaking All Over

This. I love the way Joker keeps popping up between TT and AKB's posts. . .whats that about racism towards Arabs?

---

Joker thinks NQ is a Racist because, NQ hates the way City Operate.
He says NQ hates them because their foreign.
Joker seems to think NQ would prefer our board to city's cause their english.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ach

That post gave me a headache

---

Your face gives me a headache.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

Me. :bow:

---

:lol:

:p

I created you. I can destroy you :ninja: *


* - probably not true as in any mod-fight Jof would be on your side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joker

Well said, that's another reason why more people don't join this forum, when so many threads are full of racist references to Arabs. Those who make these comments will say, "Oh we're only joking", but what does it look like to a guest to the forum?

---

Who has mention'd Arabs in a racist way, more then anyone Nationality?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Your face gives me a headache.

---

:haha:

Charlie :bow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Who has mention Arabs in a racist way, more then anyone Nationality?

---

He talk good Engerlund ye-yey

Racist jokes are ok when they are Arab..

However Yossi Benayoun 'background' jokes are not

:ninja:

Just putting it out there..

:getcoat:

Your face is a joke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fakeyank

Racist jokes are ok when they are Arab..

However Yossi Benayoun 'background' jokes are not

:ninja:

Just putting it out there..

:getcoat:

---

But its just banter is it not?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

But its just banter is it not?

---

To most, yes

To GWs RR? No

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GB.

Your face is a joke.

---

It's funny cos he's Sri Lankan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ach

To most, yes

To GWs RR? No

---

RR?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

RR?

---

Reading and Righting.

Religiously Raping

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grimandi's Perm

Religiously Raping

---

Letters :bow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grimandi's Perm

Religiously Raping

---

Thou asketh for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

But its just banter is it not?

---

Not Jewish jokes. Thats sensitive shit right there! Muslim, Indian, gay, arab jokes are banter though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fakeyank

Not Jewish jokes. Thats sensitive shit right there! Muslim, Indian, gay, arab jokes are banter though.

---

Unless your Tony Racistino :ninja:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fakeyank

Not Jewish jokes. Thats sensitive shit right there! Muslim, Indian, gay, arab jokes are banter though.

---

'Sand coon' is like saying 'sand ni**er'. It's the net and I know some people are joking but there has to be a line. That should have been deleted.

It is difficult, as people are pushing the envelope, but I believe the context is humorous. That said, what you are referring to is not something I would post myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fakeyank

Racist jokes are ok when they are Arab..

However Yossi Benayoun 'background' jokes are not

:ninja:

Just putting it out there..

:getcoat:

---

Nothing wrong with calling him lesbo jew. He is what he is, albeit an ugly one. :coffee:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

'Sand coon' is like saying 'sand ni**er'. It's the net and I know some people are joking but there has to be a line. That should have been deleted.

---

You do realise Star Wars is FICTION, right?

To challenge or win domestic trophies I think the squad needs a fair bit of surgery, I also don't believe Wenger is capable of delivering a trophy anymore.

:bow: selaisse

Bringing us back to point

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joker

Well we've had some extremely easy runs in cups and still haven't ended up with a trophy. Our run to the final of the CC wasn't the most taxing, and we managed to avoid Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool etc. The same when we went to the semi final against Chelsea, we only faced one top division club in that run (Hull in the previous round).

So even if your argument about the luck of the draw is true, we've benefited from that at times and still haven't capitalised, falling at the first "serious" challenge we face.

---

Sssssshhhhhh........... it makes more sense to blame 28 consecutive failed chances to win a trophy on the boogeyman.

BTW, great thread before John the Baptist spoilt it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Sssssshhhhhh........... it makes more sense to blame 28 consecutive failed chances to win a trophy on the boogeyman.

---

Or maybe Wenger broke a mirror. The hex should be over now.

this wont change until a fan vaults the hoardings and manages to piss on all four corners of the pitch