Yes :doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh_Gooner
You can navigate round with the box at the bottom though
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Yes :doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh_Gooner
You can navigate round with the box at the bottom though
Cripps :doh:
That clip supports the fact Flamini had a decent game but to me it mostly highlights our collective defensive strategy which is to outnumber our opponents, close the space down and to win the 2nd/3rd ball even if not the 1st ball by getting bodies in key areas. In most of those instances Flamini is being backed up by a few team mates closing space down or the other opponents around Flamini down. The fact he has a little bit of nasty in him is not really why he stood out or did well in this game. He didn't need his Freddy Kruger / ski mask to scare the kids in this showing.
There were times in which Flamini passed out well under pressure(even from poor passes from his team mates) and times in which he just hoofed it away when he could have picked out a pass. Arteta's use of the ball is far superior if we are being honest with ourselves. Flamini didn't need to throw his weight around nor did he actually do so against Stoke. He stood firm and was charged with withstanding the belated fouls/kicks after releasing the ball that inevitably came from Stoke players and keeping positionally disciplined. He did that very well today and credit to him.
I don't think that he is proven he is more valuable to us than Arteta is just yet. To my mind the perfect example of Flamini's real use is his cameo against Spurs. He came on at a time where we were up and we needed a little edge to put a little bit of doubt back in the minds of Spurs players. We needed to let them know that they were not going to get back into it easy if at all and Flamini sure did let them know that with blood and guts. Even then he walked a fine line and might have been sent off with a few other refs, but he put the Spurs midfield in their places a little.
I think he covers space in front of the defence more efficiently and is a much better passer. The defence looks more comfortable with him there. They both have their merits - Flamini was a very good transfer and better than the mugs we could have paid £20m for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Good result. Saw the highlights this morning.
Nice to see we have someone who can deliver a set piece, a skill I personally believe all professional footballers should have but lamentably few actually seem to. You can see why Özil gets so many assists, he has such an awareness of where team-mates are and the pace on his passes is perfect. Awlsome player.
That’s a bit subjective. Why do you think the defence look more comfortable with Arteta? It’s not as if teams have been hammering away at us and we’re seeing loads of shaky moments at the back and we’re being pulled all over the shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bendtner
It’s also worth keeping an eye on how often Arteta looks to collect the ball from the defence and is willing to receive a pass under pressure.
I don’t think we’ve seen a great deal of passing range from Arteta. Not consistently anyway. I wouldn’t go as far as saying it’s superior because we struggle to keep the ball when he’s in the team as well. I’d like to see how he plays next to Flamini to be honest. We may see a bit more of what he can do. It's good that we have more options in the middle. It's been broken for a while now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
I agree. It's good we're actually able to have these conversations about who to pick ahead of who. And it's weird because every thread on GW over the past few years has always degenerated into the poor transfer window gone by and how it hindered us on that particular match day. For the first time in years we have depth and the manager is facing a dilemma as to which players to pick. It's a great dilemma for Wenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Having two different DM's like Arteta and Flamini is probably good. I just hope he's able to utilise them effectively so we don't end up playing Arteta in a game where Flamini would clearly be more effective.
I like this team, but I do fear for us in the CL, I can see us being taken apart by a team with a good attack. The midfield play still bothers me, they have long spells where they can't keep the ball, and for most of that second half N'zonzi dominated the middle.
No such celebration, he was scratching or picking at his nostril.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bendtner
And that's something he can pass on to the young guns, almost right away
http://arseblog.com/2013/09/arsenal-...res-yet-again/
"....Stoke are, for now, still limited to one type of game, and telling them to play expansive, passing football is like trying explain the merits of a piece of art to a dog: hard work."
:haha:
Arseblog. :bow:
wallcot out for a month....
Wheres this from? :upset:Quote:
Originally Posted by AKBapologist
it was on the mirror, but the article has disappeared.
Nothing has been confirmed yet but Wenget basically said he has no idea on the extent of the injury.
The curse is well and truly back, just when we start to look #decent again. Typical.
No, it was never published. And it never said a month, you just made that up. It's 2 weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by AKBapologist
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...-could-2296305
Wenger has been quoted as saying he's unsure what the cause of his injury is and nobody can say how long it will keep him out.
fair enough, needs a rest tbh and would have been dropped if carzola was fit.
Time for the Bendt-meister General.
I was talking about his short passing but incidentally I think his general passing range is better too. I think Arteta is probably our best player at maintaining and setting the rhythm of passing in a midfield whilst being equally as positionally disciplined, a little less rash whilst still happy to make a cynical foul when needed. It's not always about how far a player passes it or how well he passes it but also about his choice of pass. Because our midfielders stay close together there is often 2/3 5-10 yard passing options and sometimes the trick is to pick the right one in order to mount a potential attack from. Sometimes Arteta will receive the ball on his right side let it run through his leg and play a short pass which is not necessarily an obvious pass to make but one where a passage of play opens up in the centre for an attack. I think Arteta is much better at seeing and playing that kind of pass from deep than anyone else who plays deep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I'm at pains to use Cesc as an example here but that is what Cesc was exceptional at. Arteta is not in Cesc's class but he does have that bit of nous to be able to control the passage of play with a little more finesse than most.
Like anyone I'm glad with have 2 different options and I'd rather only see Flamini play with Arteta on one off occasions if it is needed rather than seeing it a lot.
I disagree with a lot of that. Rosicky is our best passer in the squad when it comes to controlling the tempo. Before he receives the ball he knows who he's passing to and where he's moving. I've seen Arteta on too many occasions pass the ball back into a tight space when he was plenty of time to turn and spread the ball. Because of his past rep at Everton, I've been disappointed with Arteta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
If Rosicky or Diaby could stay fit we'd get that old free flowing football back. There presence would have a massive impact on the rest of the players and the speed of our game. With or without Arteta, there isn't much of a difference to the way we move the ball. It's still slow and labored. That's not all his fault because Ramsey and Wilshere aren't much help either.
I think I'd have to agree with Blink. Arteta is our key man at dictating the tempo of a match. He slows it down when necessary, plays more direct when necessary, and always exerts his authoritatively calming presence on the midfield.
Rosicky is very different and offers another skill. He dramatically accelerates our play and can raise the tempo in ways others can't. He buzzes around and is quick over 10 yards. He looks to make things happen. As a result we may be more direct, but we may also just lose the ball.
In terms of a monotonous metronomic tempo setter, Arteta is our man.
That slow pace isn't good for us and especially not when we're a 0-0 or a 1 goal up. It's the playing with the hand brake on. :lol:
That shouldn't be a part of our game plan and seems very odd for Wenger to want that when he's always been about quick and sharp passing. When he refers to being patient and not rushing, I think he means composure in front of goal and not playing a load of high risk passes all the time.
We must be the only team in the world where neither our captain or vice-captain are guaranteed a place in the side...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
I'm not sure anyone gives us the complete package in those deeper midfield roles, but what we do have is a good set of modular options thet we can pick and choose according to the situation - if you want passing + high-energy, for example, then Rosicky is probably your man, but if you want passing + positional discipline / organisation then you'd maybe go with Arteta? Or if you want high-energy + positional discipline / organisation, but not so much passing, then go with Flamini. Obviously that's just a tiny selection of the traits we'd be looking at in each player, but you get the point...Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I don't agree but clearly we going to need to agree to disagree,lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Rosicky for me (although I don't really count him as a team regular who can be relied upon) is the best player in the squad at accelerating the play, not necessarily dictating it in general. One might say I am splitting hairs but in my mind there is an important distinction to be made. Gerrard is also very good at speeding the play up but he is not nearly as good at taking it down a notch or switching it up. That said Rosicky is a more cultured player than Gerrard.
I think there are numerous occasions when our passing did not look coherent when Arteta was out of the team since he has been here imo and before Wilshere or Ramsey made the strides they did, Arteta's absence was the most sorely felt of our midfielder's. We have learnt to deal better with his absence because we have centralised and focused our defensive strategy, particularly in this calender year, on collectively hustling and harrying the opponents quickly.
I've even heard quotes which support that strategy from Rosicky who has spoke about our strategy in winning the ball back high up the pitch within several seconds, by getting as many bodies in the necessary areas as possible.
I don't see much argument for Diaby enhancing the free flow of our football and I was one of his few remaining fans on AHFC. He holds on to the ball too long and fails to release it when he should. That in itself nullified potential counter attacks and attacks although I have said many times that with time in the team he would iron that tendency out and hone his skills which he has seldom had a chance to do.
I am for a solution that fits the circumstances but there will be one player that is used more than the other as any manager does not want to perpetually tinker and rotate. I just happen to think that in an ideal world, Arteta would play more games than Flamini does.
Arteta was a panic buy as a good Everton player. He only caught the eye at Everton as a poor man's Fabregas but Wumger has turned him into a modern day Ray Wilkins. You could teach a monkey to make 100 sideways passes of 10 yards in a game.
He is not what we need for the future, he is too slow in all aspects of the way we play & if people suggest he is a DM, please have a look at his tackling - its woeful & almost always end up giving away a free-kick in dangerous areas.
He did OK in a young, poor midfield last year but now that Rambo's found some bollocks, Jack's got undoubted quality & we have the beautiful sound of Cazorla & Ozil ( orgasmic ) - he's destined for the bench.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
Diaby has bad habits but Wilshere and Ramsey are just as guilty. The Liverpool game was a reminder of his potential. He’s had the odd few games like that for France and when paired with Song in middle some years back. His fitness is the only issue for me. He’d have been perfect otherwise and just what we need.
There is probably too much of an emphasis on Arteta. His slow and cautious pace is one thing but I don’t the issue is resolved without him in the team, as seem this season. I’d like to see different combinations where we don’t have both Jack and Ramsey in the squad. A combination of Flamini/Arteta, Rosicky and Ozil would be dangerous.
Unfortunately the Diaby fitness issue is kind of a big one. I feel as sorry for him as the next guy for how his career has panned out, but we need to face facts here - he's never going to be an option that we can consistently count on, and he certainly isn't someone we should be thinking about building a team around. That's just asking for trouble...
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
I don't see how Wilshere or Ramsey are anywhere near as guilty of holding on to the ball, particularly Ramsey who has been the form player of the league so far. Maybe because Ramsey and Wilshere have played 100 times for Arsenal and you have just seen more of them than Diaby. Diaby is also 27 now so should be assessed differently to our younger two anyway. This is the age for him when childish mistakes should be behind him as a prominent player (ha ha I know) for a club like Arsenal. Diaby didn't show the link up play that Jack did consistently enough when he was fit or the industry, work rate and goals that Ramsey is now either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Our last two games have not been brimming with the free and flowing, quick tippy tappy football you are alluding to. Maybe the euphoria from winning and being top of the league have masked that fact but the win against Stoke was anything but. We played it quicker on the counter against Spurs but that was way before Flamini had even come on to the pitch so whilst I can't credit Arteta with that it also wasn't exactly down to Flamini either.
And by the way people. One might argue Ozil was a panic buy, even if the greatest panic buy of all time. A world class player but let's not forget that he was neither a part of any summer 'plan' or done in anything like an expedient time frame for the blood pressure of Arsenal fans....
Mertesacker was a panic buy as was Arteta, but they both have proven their use to the squad. Even Benayoun was pivotal in securing 4th place that year.
I don't understand what games some of you are watching, cause the over praise for Ramsey and Wilshere is getting a bit upsurd now.
Yes Ramsey is scoring goals, but lets not gloss over the fact, he still has a lot of work to do, to be a really good Central Midfielder on a consistent level, same goes for Wilshere, minus the goal part. When is the last time, we've seen an Arsenal midfield concede as much possession as this bunch does, on a game to game basis. The midfield play has not looked fluid, sharp, and crisp at all. They still got ways to go, and to me Jack in particular hasn't prove that he deserve to start, when everyone is fit.
I'm all for the team, and what not, but lets not ignore the problems, that are still there.
Theo out for a few weeks, likely to be back after the international break.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-arc...inal-procedure
Have you not seen the amount of times Wilshere has ran himself into trouble or have you forgotten already how long it's taken Ramsey to get to this level? The amount of touches he'd take to only play a pointless pass or give it away?Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
Wilshere and Ramsey have been able to get over their injuries but Diaby hasn't. Experience and time is what irons out those sort of problems. If your always picking up injuries you won't have the chance. Imagine what Ramsey would be like if he'd picked up another injury last season and sat out the whole summer.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by hobson's choice
http://i.imgur.com/EgqnRyp.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
To be honest, I think we're just going to have to make our peace with conceding a bit more possession this season - that's just the nature of the beast when you're playing counter-attacking football. You want to create a situation where you're stretching your opponent's lines by coaxing them into your half, and then hitting them quickly while the space is there to exploit, and you can't really do that without a) letting you're opponent's having the ball (so they can actually mount an attack for you to counter), and b) playing quicker, more adventurous, forward passes that carry a greater risk of being misplaced or intercepted.
Just my opinion, but I actually prefer to see us playing this kind of fast, adventurous, slightly riskier football, than the high-possession, high-pressing game that we've played for the last few years, with it's slow build-up and careful probing around packed areas? For all the possession we've enjoyed, it's actually felt quite inefficient, and more than a little... safe? And it's quite often left us an easy target for other counter-attacking sides ourselves (how many times did Man U and Chelsea used to pick us off with ease when we were playing all that tippy-tappy football?)...
It's still possible to be effective even if you don't dominate possession, you just have to defend better.
To me it looks like we're more comfortable without the ball now, we don't see the same panic or lethargic attitude anymore when we don't have it.