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didn't we go on a 11 game winning streak after the villa game? since chelsea, we have played 8, winning the first 7 games, which included spurs and newcastle away (tough place to go this season) we can put some very good winning runs together.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
We've done very well this year but we're competing against teams who don't need to worry about injuries, don't need to worry about fatigue. They can just pull more £40m players off the bench and on they go. There's been a clear improvement this year, we're going in the right direction, but ultimately I don't see how we can win the league against teams who have such impressive squads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
I don't see winning the title as the criteria for success this year.
We did and that was why we are top of the league but City seem to be hititng form right now and have a full squad of quality internationals to choose from. We have played OKAY for about 6 games now and although we won, yesterday was a reminder that we cannot continue to play badly and win all the time. To top it all off, we have 2 of our better goal getters out injured (Theo and Rambo). had those two been fit yesterday then id bet you we'd have won.
Aguero missed about 6 games for them but they still won every game without him because they had 28m Djeko, 18m Negredo, 15m Navas, 24m Silva etc to choose from. We lost Theo and there goes ur only outlet/pace. Its not realistic to expect us to compete with them right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
You keep talking about City being this amazing mythical creature who does nothing wrong and Arsenal are doing "okay"... Have you even seen City play? They were lucky to win at Swansea, Newcastle, WBA and Liverpool, won 1-0 over palace and had a corrupt ref help them to win over us, in their "amazing" 11 game run, yet when we win the same kind of games, we're doing "okay". Makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
Can you honestly say we've played well against Cheslea, Everton, Newcastle, Cardiff, Fulham and yesterday? NO, i dont think so. We have been winning games due to our excellent defence and 10-15 minute spells where he score our goals. Im not for on second complaining and when i look at the difference between this season and last (15 points better of) i see clear improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasTC
However, winning the title is not something i expect, i expect us to continue to challenge and stay in touch but we are competing against a much better squad.
Quote:
The reason we'll finish 3rd is that the two teams we're trying to compete with have the infinite money cheat on.
We're top of the league, we've won our last 7 games, the first set back and everyone wets themselves.
Tsk.
I've given myself time to think about this, and while I don't want to be knee jerk, I'm afraid that last night summarises in many ways why we should be much more circumspect about our so-called 'progress' than some Gooners are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I could only listen to the match (switching between radio shows) - but by all accounts, the first half was truly, truly awful from us. How can a team supposedly full of confidence, playing a fixture that lets face it was an essential 3 points if we were to maintain any real pretence of challenging for the title (given our 2 horrendous coming runs) - come out playing like that?
For me, that is totally down to the manager. It started on Monday, when his near-hysterical reaction to Mourinho's taunting showed us a brittle manager who has let Maureen get under his skin. It really was not the best rallying cry for his players. And the negativity continued with his team selection last night. Bringing a non-match fit Arteta in alongside Flamini in midfield was a very poor selection - and one that has made the team look unbalanced almost whenever its been tried this season. It meant that the initiative was handed on a plate to Southampton, and was simply not, IMHO how league leaders should have approached this tie.
The truth is that while Steve Bould has clearly been allowed to tighten us up at the back, we have not looked truly threatening going forwards for a while now. Wenger might choose to praise his team's 'resilience' to keep going in adversity, but as PNG says - we have looked complacent and lacking in focus for a few games now - and its an age old Arsenal problem.
Letters chooses to look at the competition to explain why we won't win the league. Well its that opposition that we have to beat to win things - and compare and contrast them with us. Both Citeh and the Chavs have had games where they have let themselves down this season, but (the City/Watford FA Cup tie apart) - the trend is that both teams have improved as their new managers have found their right balance of players. Wenger's team has not improved - despite his vastly greater longevity and experience with his players.
Even when we were 7 points clear a couple of months ago - most pundits and bookies put us 3rd favourites for the league, pointing out that we had had a relatively easy first half to the season. Letters can argue that this is because of Chelsea's and Citeh's resources - but that is not the whole reason. Manure were way out-resourced by the same teams last season but romped the league. The reason why we are not considered proper title rivals by most is that we have a horrible history of crumbling under pressure. In 2008, we were 5 points clear at the top of the league in February, but imploded. For more seasons than I wish to remember, we have been in with a theoretical chance of 3 or 4 trophies, only to crash out of everything in a matter of weeks.
This season, we have lost to Manure during their most inept period; failed to beat a developing Chavs team at home; been spanked by Citeh and dropped points against the likes of Everton at home and now Southampton away. Lets not forget also that we could't secure a draw against Napoli that would have seen us top our CL group - and instead came close to going out of a group that we had led from the outset.
I am afraid that nothing I have seen from us this season suggests that we will not implode again during our upcoming 'crunch' periods. The fact that its so likely to be 'same old' 'same old' Arsenal is what makes results like last night's depressing - not knee-jerkiness.
So we can conclude that Letters and others have written this season off before it even started because we have an inferior squad to 2 teams. Leading the leaugue for so long must be some fluke then, so we should all agree that top 4 is where we expect to be. No doubt things will remain the same for the forseeable future because real;istically the status quo wrt City Chelsea will remain the same and United will eventually get their shit together.
However I dont see what yesterdays result has to do with any other club. We squandered 2 points because we refused to use the assets at our disposal properly.
A great manager can get his team an extra 20 points each season imo, otherwise why are United struggling now with essentially the same squad that blitzed the league last season. I dont understand why some like to be obtuse just to be obtuse. We should all be in agreement that yesterday, Wenger screwed up. He may get it right next time but nothing changes what just happened
Maybe because this is the match reaction thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Southampton looked the fresher side even though we had an extra days rest. Saying we can’t ask much more from the team and management is a stretch. It wasn’t a good performance.
We're 15 points better off than we were at this stage last year and we haven't improved? :blink:Quote:
Letters chooses to look at the competition to explain why we won't win the league.
Well its that opposition that we have to beat to win things - and compare and contrast them with us.
Both Citeh and the Chavs have had games where they have let themselves down this season, but (the City/Watford FA Cup tie apart) - the trend is that both teams have improved as their new managers have found their right balance of players. Wenger's team has not improved - despite his vastly greater longevity and experience with his players.
I'd say our record this year (W16 D4 L3) is significantly better that last year's W10 D7 L6 at this stage.
Last year we scraped into the top 4, I don't see how it's reasonable to expect us to win the league this year.
In order to assess whether we can win the league of course you have to look at how strong the other teams are.
City's squad is frightening, the fact they didn't win the league last year is a combination of poor management, Fergie being Fergie and RvP being brilliant and fit all season. They've looked far poorer this season with Moyes and with Rooney and RvP getting injuries.
We've also beaten Dortmund away (who I believe had won every home game prior to our visit), won away at Newcastle (who had only lost one home game and beaten both Utd and Chelsea at home at that stage) and beaten Liverpool at home (who would have leapfrogged us to go top had we not done so. I can cherry pick good results just as easily as you can cherry pick bad ones, and I can cherry pick bad results for our rivals (City lost away at Cardiff and Sunderland - the current bottom 2 - and, like us, drew away at Southampton)Quote:
This season, we have lost to Manure during their most inept period; failed to beat a developing Chavs team at home; been spanked by Citeh and dropped points against the likes of Everton at home and now Southampton away.
I don't think we'll win the league because over a long season I think City and Chelsea both have too much for us.
You can blame Wenger if you like and of course he's not perfect, but we're competing with sides who don't have to cope with fatigue or injuries like we do. We've done well so far but when push comes to shove I think we'll be found wanting. The resources of City and Chelsea are a massive factor.
Do you think, given the last 2 seasons where we've just about limped into the top 4, the title is a reasonable expectation this year?
:lol: That's a fair point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
But in order to assess where we might finish you can't just look at one game where we've played poorly - or one game where we've played well.
We basically can't afford results like this, City and Chelsea weren't at their best at times in the 1st half of the season (and yet they've kept up with us), but the blips they've had will probably be eradicated from now on in and with the run we have coming up this was a must win game, considering the players Southampton had missing and their dip in results in recent times we should have won this.
This isn't a good result, just like the Everton home game wasn't a good result, despite what people said (Everton are dropping away now and the thrashing Liverpool gave them yesterday shows they are a level below the better teams).
We've been efficient this season IMO, without really playing great football, but in recent times we've lacked a cutting edge IMO, oddly it's almost like we lack a bit of creativity despite all of our creative players. IMO that's due to the lack of movement up front, together with our lack of pace when we attack, this lack of movement and pace have been evident recently as we've struggled to create many clear cut chances for ourselves.
In the FA Cup when we played at a higher tempo and with someone pacey up front, it was clear we found it much easier to open up the opposition, this was incidentally also our most enjoyable performance to watch as it was genuinely exciting, unlike many of our recent games.
Between our increased defensive nature and the lack of some key players (some of which we never signed, like a pacy left winger or a true replacement for RVP) we're going to have a tough season from now on in. Good that it's been 2-nills to the arsenal instead of the 1-nills I was expecting, but we're beginning to run out of steam.
Near hysterical reaction to mourinho?
:haha: funniest thing I've read on here. Couldn't be further from the truth
Wow. First time round I ignored all that extraneous overblown shite for the shite it was.
Does anyone have a video link to Wenger's near hysteria? I'd like to see it now.
I'm quite hoping he smashes a chair over someones head.
There are two key things being discussed here:
Our expectations for the season and last night's match.
Over the course of the season, we have performed very well and are in the running against two teams who we really are doing well to be in touch with or slightly ahead of. That those two teams are the ones that have seemingly unlimited resources is no coincidence. Over the course of the season, it would be some achievement to be even pushing them.
The second thing is last nights performance. This has nothing whatsoever to do with those two teams. By all accounts we stunk the place out. And it is that which we need to sort out.
Must be a mistake. Surely he meant Mourinho was hysterical?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fist of Lehmann
I didn't say we hadn't improved - I made the point (with justification I think) that we need to be circumspect as to the extent of our improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Of course, noone can argue with the stats you have referred to in themselves. But even with these, further questions need to be asked. I haven't checked, but I can't recall us having had just the one tricky run by this stage last season? This season has been kind to us so far.
More than that, though? I'd say that its not necessarily about simply comparing points totals. Given the run we went on in 2013. Given the fact that we have a settled back 5; given the fact that the likes of Giroud; Cazorla; Merts now have first seasons under their belts; given the fact that we have tripled our previous transfer fee to sign a world class player, and given that for once last Summer we did not lose our best player - I would say that we are not comparing like for like by looking at January 2014 and January 2013. I would say that given all the circumstances, we should bloody well expect an improvement. Perhaps the more incisive question is whether we are over or under-performing? IMO that is a much more nuanced question.
Anyway, why just compare last season? Like I say, in 2007/8 we were in a better league position, relative to other teams, than we are now. In 2010/11 we were just 1 point behind leaders Manure at the end of Feb (which I would be very surprised will be the case this season), yet both times we couldn't last the pace. It would be a very brave person who would bet against the same thing happening this season - for whatever reason. Is that really a step change in terms of league status?
As for cherry-picking results. I follow you to an extent. But the games I've highlighted - where we do not get results when the pressure is on - represent a trend for our football club. And that trend is that we have a mental block when it comes to facing so-called better teams - and that we rarely perform when it really matters. I'm afraid I can't put the Liverpool and Newcastle games into that category - and what does the away result at Dortmund mean, when at the sharp end of the group we fucked it up against a Napoli team that we had destroyed at home? We have always, under Wenger, pulled the odd surprising result out of the bag - but for years we have under performed in general against the top teams.
I'm not sure I have seen anyone - least of all me - claim that we should 'expect' to win the league. But 2 issues apply for me here. Regardless of Citeh and the Chavs' resources, there is a very strong argument to say that we consistently refuse to leverage the resources that we DO have. Is our financial situation such that we have to rely on a single frontline forward when Citeh have 4 world class strikers; Manure 2 - and 2 others arguably better than we have; Liverpool - SAS; even the Chavs have Torres; Eto'o and Ba - strikers that in name at least make a mockery of this argument that they have no strikeforce (and they've just bought Salah!). No - that is down to our manager and his choices.
Why did Wenger spend 42M on Ozil if not with the aim of winning the league? And yet again, we gamble with a lack of strikers. The one area where we have really improved is defence - and yet we are an injury away from real problems - both in central defence and at right back. This is nothing to do with either Chelsea or Citeh.
You talk about limping into the top 4 last season. Well as much as it pains me to say it, I think we are going to have a much harder time in this second half of the season than we had in the first half - and finishing 4th is certainly not out of the question - as Citeh and the Chavs settle; Liverpool looking consistent and Manure certain to improve. Even finishing 3rd may well turn out to be more because of Manure's 'disastrous' first half of the season than any step change from us. This might seem like a pessimistic approach, but for the reason's I have given, I haven't seen a great deal from this team to convince me otherwise.
Dunno.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling Archer
He said 'to' Mourinho.
I'm assuming Mourinho doesn't react hysterically to himself? Unless he wakes up every morning with the horrible realisation of what an ungodly c*nt he is?
Doesn't make sense any other way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fist of Lehmann
That's about right. The team and manager deserve credit for a good season overall where we've seen improvement in some key areas, notably the defence. But last night, when we needed 3 points, we saw a negative team selection and negative tactics from the manager. The dropped points last night were down to Wenger more than anyone else. He deserves the plaudits for a good season so far and he deserves the criticism when he fucks up, which he certainly did last night. He'd already had a taste of the result of such negativity in the Everton game, lesson NOT learned. He refused to make any significant changes last night, which compounded the fuck up. If we're to fight to the finish then the manager as well as the team will need a set of balls. Wenger had no balls last night. Hope it's the last time we see this shit from him but I doubt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve French
Now we are two thirds through the season and top (which I still think we'll be once the weekend games unwind) there certainly should be an expectation of winning this league. Why not? We have come this far against the dopers, so we keep the effort going for the final third of the season. Yes we have injuries, but now is the time for others to step up. Including the manager. Get it together Wenger, you get all that money for challenges like this. No shrinking please, find your balls and let's go for it.
It’s been one of those weeks. I had high hope for this season and although we’re still top and in with a shout, I doubt we’ll do it unless we make a major signing that can really give us a lift. I hope that Draxler deal goes through.Quote:
Originally Posted by IBK
I don’t think Wenger can deal with the pressure. I still don’t know why he went out of his way to talk about Chelsea selling Mata as if it’s a disadvantage to us. It’s not the sort of message you want to put out there. Many on here dismiss it but I’ve always questioned why he’s complaining when we’re in such a strong position. We should just focus on us. All this talk of City and Chelsea’s transfers is very negative and sets a defeatist tone around our club. Take Letter’s as an example, straight off the bat he’s blaming City and Chelsea. If the players and coach have that same mentality then we’re screwed and it seems like that’s the thought process around the club. It doesn’t help us. The positive noise coming from the club and the signing of Ozil set us off this season. Even though the fixtures have been easy on us, we’d have royally screwed up on a lot of those games two years ago. We’d get complacent and drop silly points.
We have to do business before the window closes. Injuries are racking up and a couple of bad games will leave us fighting for 4th place. The league is that tight and we can’t afford a sudden shake of confidence. The manager has to show some leadership and stake his claim for the title. Stop with all the moaning and get on with it. There is no point in talking about players coming back from injury. We’ve crocked Ramsey because he’s been overplayed then rushed back and it makes no sense not to start players like Podolski when he’s been scoring goals. Wenger needs to get it together for the final stretch.
Umm. You said:Quote:
I didn't say we hadn't improved
:shrug:Quote:
Wenger's team has not improved - despite his vastly greater longevity and experience with his players.
Now you're saying they have, listing some reasons why and asking whether we've improved enough which I agree that is a better question.
As for why compare last season - that is the most relevant comparison. You mention 2007/8, how many of those players are still playing for us? I can't be arsed checking but it can't be enough to make the comparison relevant. It's a completely different set of players now. Comparisons with last season are the most valid ones as it's mostly the same players so you're comparing (more or less) like for like.
You cite our problems with 'pressure', but as I said in that Liverpool game they'd have leap-frogged us had we lost, since the turn of the year we've had City and Chelsea right on our tails. Every game has been a must-win game as they've kept winning and till last night we had won every one. One slip-up and you cite it as the old problem of us not winning under pressure.
I agree we haven't made the most of our resources but we have been hampered by the stadium move and poor commercial deals, those are coming to an end now and while I agree we've been over-cautious in the transfer market the Ozil signing is an indication that we are ready to play with the big boys now. We need more, but it's a start.
Obviously we can only judge this season at the end but so far I'm happy with where we are and am content that the club are heading in the right direction. The important thing is we continue that.
But what’s one Ozil on the pitch for us when oil rich clubs can have such players on the field and on their bench!Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
It's a step closer to them but even if you're being sarcastic you're right, it's not enough to bridge the gap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Because what he said is related to FFP and this could be a crucial factor in the coming seasons if it is applied properly. We are starting to generate significant revenues using proper business methods so theoretically we should have an advantage, and rightly so as this is about financial FAIR play. We haven't been dumping sugar daddy cash into the club or using shady self sponsorship to balance the books. The chavs and gypos are doing the opposite to us. Their financial figures are manipulated and if the FFP rulings go against them they will suffer penalties for financial UNFAIR play.Quote:
I still don’t know why he went out of his way to talk about Chelsea selling Mata as if it’s a disadvantage to us. It’s not the sort of message you want to put out there.
These decisions are being made right now and the outcome will be crucial. Will the chavs and gypos be permitted to stick two fingers up to the regulating authorities or will the new rules be applied in the proper manner? If the latter then we are suddenly in the driving seat and the comedy clubs are scrambling. Wenger put the message out at the right time and in the right manner. The thick, hyped-up twats in the media decided to turn it into a Mata soap opera instead. Maureen threw a fit because he'll be more than aware his job will be a lot harder if the rules are applied and he can no longer apply his preferred management tactics, namely chucking cash at every problem.
The authorities respect Wenger and use our club as a model example. Whether they have the balls to go up against major criminals like Abaramovich and the arab scum that have hijacked city is another matter. That will need balls. Wenger is reminding them of this. And why not? He's trying to do whatever he can to ensure 10 years of sacrifice and careful planning is not undone by financial doping elsewhere. He's doing his job.
Do you think UEFA and FIFA are actually paying attention to Wenger? I don't think that's the way to get his message across. There are more powerful people within the club that can talk on that.
Everyone in the club has been talking about it, excluding Silent Stan. I don't think they pay exclusive attention to Wenger, but they do seem to pay a lot of attention to our financial model. I would say, like most large and influential organisations, they have people in one camp who genuinely want to improve the game, then they have corrupt bastards on the take. Wenger, along with other figures who value the integrity of the game, will be lobbying to one faction, the chavs and gypos will be bunging cash and favours at the other group. I can't prove that of course, but it's the normal way for business and politics to interact and the usual outcome when criminal elements posing as respectable businesses are involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
"You can blame Wenger if you like and ofcourse he's not perfect, but we're competing with sides who don't have to cpoe with fatigue or injuries like we do" - who's fault is this? - A whole summer window with big money to spend & he buys no-one. We don't even know if he would have bought Ozil had he not got so much stick after the Villa Game. He had plenty of opportunity to get a few 10-15 mill squad players that would have helped with fatigue or injuries. And low & behold, having no striking options apart from Giroud, Rambo out, Theo & his goals/assists out - we're a day away from spending fuck all again in the Jan window. The early season form of Giroud, Ramsey & Ozil has fizzled out, mosty becuase Wenger's tactics have become desperately defensive sitting back on leads against pub teams when they're there for the taking. This will get us nowhere against the better teams. When we attack with pace & numbers at high tempo we're capable of beating anyone but we only give the players license to do it if we're behind or trying to win at home against Fulham or Cardiff. Look at the differnce when we came out for the 2nd half last night, bodies up the pitch in & around the area - its the only way we know how to play, so do it from the start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We go a goal behind, this generally means we have to score to get back in the game, maybe a few to win it - why then did we not IMMEDIATELY bring on Polds or Ox to replace one of our 2 defensive midfielders ( which was a joke in the 1st place ), these are tactical decesions that top managers make & Wenger never does it. I dont expect us to win the league, never did but I do expect us to play the football we teach at Colney, otherwise bring in Pullis.
No-one's. I agree Wenger should have done more in the transfer market but you're dreaming if you think that whatever he did we could have a squad as strong as City's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
With a decent enough squad to finish 4th last year & £80 mill to spend, we might not build a squad like City's but you can certianly build a squad that is more resiliant to fatigue & injuries - our forward line is the weakest in the league in depth & it was at the start of the season.
I agree with that. I'm irritated, although not that surprised, that we haven't strengthened up front when it's a clear area of weakness.
Honestly, it seems like he's playing the 'poor old Arsenal' card and I hate that. We know we're underdogs but from the outside it looks like Wenger is appealing for more help and protection. We just need to get on with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
We each have our opinions, but it doesn't look anything like that to me. I see him focusing on the only area that could undermine the financial dopers. I see the gypos are likely to be excused for breaking FFP rules, posting up yet another loss despite the fact they have blatantly cooked the books. It seems that without sustained prodding the bods in charge won't be doing much to implement FFP in practical terms. So Wenger (and I'm sure others) are prodding and reminding. What's wrong with that? I did't hear any sort of "poor Arsenal" message, it was more like a reminder to UEFA about their own rules which they have made a big song and dance about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Wait a second....the Mata comments have very little to do with the FFP ruling to be fair. It's a seperate issue Wenger is taking on. He's calling for the January transfer window to be scrapped. That's totally seperate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Yes, it was the secondary issue Wenger used to lead into FFP because that's what he was asked about. He said he didn't agree with the January window but then he speculated the chavs were selling because they might finally be paying attention to FFP. The procession was a bit complex for the poor old fat and drunk hack journos to follow, so they went with their typical shit. I think one journo has had the guts to tell the truth about the gypos and their despicable owners. The rest just whore themselves out cheaply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I think you're reaching on that one. If he's saying their trying to comply with the rules it I don't see how it's shining a light on their cooked books.
Read his interview again. There's no reaching, his main point is very clearly about FFP. In the world of politics and diplomacy if you want to call somebody a complete and utter cunt you say their, "actions need clarification." If you want to call somebody a cheating cunt you say, "I'm encouraged they have decided to abide by the rules." This is what Wenger said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
He's been calling for that for years and when he made that comment he made it clear he didn't think Chelsea were doing anything wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
More media bollox.
I've read his comments and he seems to be suggesting that the rules are working and the Mata sale is a result of the FFP rules.
It's a very long stretch to interpret it any other way. We'll agree to disagree on this one.Quote:
'I think it is a purely financial reason,' he explained, as quoted by Sky Sports. 'That is the first time I come to that conclusion with Chelsea. It means somewhere that Chelsea changes philosophy and they want to get on line with financial fair play.
'For me that is the main reason, and that is a good thing.'