Not even close to his Real Madrid form, both for us, and ze Germans. You consider the outlay, we have not done well out of it. He was top class in 2010 World Cup, now he is coasting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
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Not even close to his Real Madrid form, both for us, and ze Germans. You consider the outlay, we have not done well out of it. He was top class in 2010 World Cup, now he is coasting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Monaco scored 4 goals in total in their entire qualifying group and generally can't buy a goal and yet they knocked in 3 against us away, time and time again we get found out in Europe, we've had an easy draw this season and yet somehow we almost managed to blow it, if we got byes all the way to the final and the other team didn't turn up I still wouldn't fancy us to win it with Wenger in charge, we'd probably knock in a couple of own goals to lose it.
Unfortunately it will take injuries again for him to stumble upon a productive formula once more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
'Brilliant', Letters? 'Brilliant'?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Very rarely is he integral to anything we do. Doesn't seem to want the responsibility and lacks any sort of intensity to make a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralpheroo72
A luxury player we just can't afford. Not the guy for us, sell him while we can still get some big money and invest in a proper central midfielder.
This is how far his stock has fallen. Just by not stinking the place out it is considered an improvement for Ozil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
talking bollocks again Zim. we didn't have an easy draw, however Monaco didQuote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Wenger went on about suicidal defending - but why were our two CBs so high up the pitch on so many occasions and why were our fullbacks pressed on beyond the attacking wide men (who were often found wandering into the centre)? Were they instructed to do that? Or for some reason did they ignore instructions? Or was it the product of Wenger's free hand that allows players to "express themselves?" This is assuming there was a plan at all.
Whatever. Monaco had a plan and they executed it with discipline. Four of their preferred back six were missing FFS, but the replacements stuck to their jobs and played as a unit, bar the first few minutes when they were finding their feet. They are coached properly. We have the better players, they had the better team. That's down to the managers.
The way he set up Santi for that chance on Saturday was pure quality, he's been getting plenty of goals and assists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
From what I've heard (mercifully I didn't see it) it was a bloody awful performance all round last night, I'm not sure why Ozil is being singled out when he's been playing so...ok, 'well' then, recently.
It seems like he's getting singled out because characters like yourself jump on to the defence bandwagon and we get these silly exchanges about how he's been 'brilliant' when he hasn't. Flashes of class is different to really having a dominant performance in a massive game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
The sooner people accept how disappointing he's been, we can move on to other no shows from last night so it doesn't seem like he's getting singled out.
He was the most notable example of the players lacking fight once we went 2 goals down. He was static, wouldn't cover the spaces, lost the ball more times than not. He's a precision piece for a well drilled engine. When the engine is broken he's a useless cog that rattles around breaking other stuff. So it's not as simple as to just say he didn't play well. You have to look at the whole team. No point having marquee players if you can't get the basics right. 11 Cattermoles are better than 11 Ozils if the team can't pass, shoot, tackle, run, challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Ozil and Santi in the centre of midfield. Only Wenger would do that. No other manager would contemplate it, especially twice in as many games. Once bitten, 763 times eager - that's Wenger.
I keep saying it, but it makes no sense to leave Rosicky out of the squad. Also, Walcott on the bench for Welbeck makes no sense. How long will it take Danny to get goals from the wide position? He hated the role at Utd so we draft him in under the guise that he's play as striker to shift him out wide in place of Walcott?
Theo has his own problems as a player at least you know when he gets going he can be counted on for goals. I don't know what we're doing with Welbeck.
Henry and Souness were saying Wellbeck made it easy for them as he didn't stick to a wide position thus allowing the full backs to tuck in. At Barca Henry was told to stay on the line or he'd be watching the match from the bench, Wenger and the coaching staff seemingly had nothing to say about this.
Having said that as has been mentioned Wellbeck didn't want to play on the wing, that's why he left Man U, got to say though he's not been much cop since his move, as expected.
He's been a bit disappointing. I think we all knew he's no Aguero but he's looked pretty sharp for England this season, there have been flashes of good play for Arsenal too but not enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Wenger must go, its simple. How many years now that he's failed in the CL? 19 years and counting and he still has no clue what it takes to win it. We have played the very best and the very worst yet we always get found out because this man is clueless tactically and doesnt now what he is doing most of the time. Monaco outplayed us at our place, thats just unaccepatble.
I saw those post game comments and it's a problem we often have against organised teams. Playing too narrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Welbeck will soon start making noise about playing upfront.
Yep, and what makes it worse is they outplayed us with half of their youth team, they had 5 first team players out injured yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
Wenger has to go at the end of the season IMO.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-xBjQRWkAAoNk5.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Özim
I don't think Welbeck has been that bad, he makes things happen with his hard work, pace and lovely smile. However as a goal hungry striker? Yeah I think we can see why he was maligned at United.
If we had a manager who knew what he was doing then Theo and Welbeck would be rotating.
Do we need Opta stats?Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
Theo Walcott was seemingly involved in an altercation with Arsenal supporters following his side's humiliating Champions League defeat by Monaco at the Emirates on Wednesday night.
After the final whistle the England international shared a tight embrace with Monaco defender Aymen Abdennour before swapping shirts with the Tunisia international.
The forward apparently responded by gesturing towards the Arsenal fans motioning with his hand to suggest the criticism did not affect him.
After such a shambolic display Walcott's reaction is likely to be received with further anger from the home faithful who booed their team off the pitch.
The Gunners were beaten 3-1 by the Ligue 1 side and now face a mammoth task to reach the last eight of the competition when they play the second leg in three weeks' time.
not really, just highlighting the welbeck point zim was makingQuote:
Originally Posted by Ralpheroo72
Not just Theo and Welbeck, but several player combinations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
It's obvious Wenger has his favourites, probably because he trusts certain players over others. On AVERAGE, they repay that trust by delivering the coveted 4th place trophy every year. That's why Arteta will come straight back into the team when he is fit. And ON AVERAGE we'll do better with Arteta in the team. The problem comes in the key matches. Average just doesn't cut it.
My guess would be you have to jump on a culture early as a manager. If you put your foot down and let players know they are part of a squad and there is no such thing as a guaranteed start then rotation is an option. But if you make a rod for your own back by displaying favouritism or maybe even giving guarantees then you'll struggle to get the right team on the pitch for each game. Ferguson had the fucking do what you are told and shut your hole grip on his squad. Even Beckham got a smack when he stepped out of line. This seemed to waver towards the end though as that bitch Rooney clearly won concessions. Bad mistake. Utd have struggled ever since trying to accommodate that has-been lump.
I suppose you have to be prepared to lose the moaners for the sake of the team. We were losing players anyway during the eternal transition. That could have weakened Wenger's hand. Now the culture is in place and it has left us scratching our heads wondering why the fuck so-and-so is playing.
All pure speculation and gut feeling on my part. Something to do while we lament another abject outing on the grow-ups stage.
Ozil was anonymous. When is he gonna produce real top quality performances for us? how long do we wait for him to settle in? Yesterday, he was hiding, he kept sulking everytime he gave the ball away amnd strolled through the game at hiw own pace.
Those faint blobs on the touchline were all made in the first 5 minutes too, when he was effective. You can blame the player to a degree, but you still have to ask what the manager is for if he sits there and lets it happen. Welbeck had the beating of his man down the flank, we could have got some joy there. Either Wenger should have enforced the plan (I stress, IF there was a plan) or Theo should have been on earlier (or Ox).Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
Btw, Ox is carrying flak for losing the ball for the third goal. Fair enough. But he was being played in central midfield. That's down to Wenger again. Ox is not a central midfielder, at least no more than Jack is a holding midfielder. Or Chambers. These stupid experiments have to stop. Rosicky was fit. Jack is fit isn't he? These are proper central midfielders. Why not play them there?
Well, because you have to somehow shoehorn Ozil and Cazorla into the same team. Or so Wenger thinks.
Yep, I personally don't believe Ozil will improve much under Wenger. I personally feel Ozil could do with a manager who gets on his back a bit and demands more, I get the impression he's "Wenger's" golden boy and could do no wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
Ozil has been here well over a season and hasn't produced in a BIG game, his performances have been flaky at best after a pretty decent start. He's not even a guaranteed starter in his favoured position, that tells us all we need to know about his performances here so far.
If Wenger is going to stick around then I hope we move Ozil on because he has no business being in this team and he has no business being given a free ride by Wenger. We should cut our losses and sell him and start building a balanced midfield/team, what's the point of trying to cram in a bunch of attacking midfielders into our team, it's crazy!
Wenger doesn't want to play balanced football. He wants to play Wengerball where individual players are given extended scope. If Ozil goes then an unsuitable replacement will come in.
Sad but true. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Maybe this is just part of a masterplan to get 4th position again which is the real goal after all. After the draw, they thought OMG we might actually get through to the quarters and that could distract the squad from the league, so how can we destroy that possibility but still retain confidence. So totally bollocks up the first leg then win 2-0 away to get a plucky defeat where Wenger can lament the away goal rule etc,but this performance gives confidence to the rest of the season as we scream into 4th place.
With regards Ozil, he has played in a very good Real side and a top notch German side. Playing in the Real side with Ronaldo up top would make you look a better player as your assists will sky rocket from his goal scoring. It needs to be him or Cazorla central.
I still like Welbeck he works hard and is a trier, prefer him to Giroud who I still don't really like (not sure why).
But this is the problem - we have debates on here where we're talking about certain players NOT being that bad. Their not THAT bad but there not top quality either. This is our problem. We have a 1st team virtually full of NOT BAD players but only a very small amount of top quality. Until we get a manager that addresses that balance we will continue to take 1 step forward & 2 steps back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
do Chelsea or City have 11 top quality players. no. you don't need a team full of top drawer players. You need a few quality players. The rest have to be good, but you need a team that is balanced and organised. our squad is pretty good on the whole. perhaps a replacement for merte and someone instead of coq and we are there. however, if you aren't organised then it doesn't matter what players you have ultimately when it matters most you will lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
what I don't get sometimes is why Wenger and Bould just sit on the bench showing very little drive or enthusiasm. they just sit and watch. no getting to the touch line to yell instructions. nothing like that.
Is it deluded of me to still think we can get a result over there? I know things looks shite right now and we have had it with wumger but this is Monaco and we can beat them over there.
Nope. We could get a result. All we have to do over there is what they did over here, outplay them and win 3-1.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
But it's deluded of you to think we can do it with Wenger in charge.
Oh I think we'll get a result over there, I'm guessing it'll be a heroic effort where we do something like win 2-0 over there and so still go out.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
Do you think they'd have the nerve to try that one again? Is it even possible to be heroic in failure when up against Monaco? Isn't it just plain old bog standard failure when you lose to them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Have you not been watching over the last few years? :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
We will most likely win but go out in the tie.. just like how we went out against Milan and Bayern. And then you will have the bumbling idiot mouth the same team spirit bollocks. Our valiant effort + top 4 finish will buy him a 5 year contract and all will be well at Arsenal again.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
Urgh :ilt: